same song and dance

[codyatl]

I am so tired of NBA referees. In my opinion they are the worst officials in the major sports. Giving superstars calls just for being superstars is completely bogus. Take last night's game for instance. Hawks are on the best run they have had all season and have taken a little lead against the best team in the league and what happens? Billups rapes a hawks player(Johnson i think) clearly hacking him across the arms to create a "turnover". The pistons score an easy basket and the basically took over the game from there. I am not saying the game would have had a different outcome had that call been made but damn refs have some testicular fortitude and call the game both ways.

[Lascar78]

have you ever been on your job and had to make a split-second decision with 22,000 people staring at you and ready to get on your ass if you do anything wrong? Not quite as easy as you might think. they're human

[swolehawk2]

Yep, officiating in the NBA is comical, one reason why the game suffers and hardly anyone watches.

One of the Detroit announcers mentioned on one call that we didn't get ...that the Hawks have to earn respect to get those calls...laughable....an obvious foul is an obvious foul....and Bullups created contact all night jumping into Hawks, kicking legs out...it is sad.

Not just Hawks though, officiating night to night , game to game is just not very good.

[swolehawk2]

Please...do you think they actually miss all those fouls...they see them they just consider what player, what team, which move did he make to get that shot and what time in the game and who fouled.

If Billups goes up against Salim, Salim stands with hands vertical and Billups creates the contact with his leg...why is a foul called because he makes a mean face like he has been hit?

[codyatl]

I am not saying that they should be super human and never miss a call but nba refs let stars get away with too much, period. Has been that way for a long time, remember Jordan? All i am saying is call the game the same way for ALL players.

[swolehawk2]

Exactly, they can not see every foul...but the obvious fouls have the be called, regardless of who it is against.

It is just too inconsistent....one play a guard can throw an elbow to a bigs throat at the top of the key for everyone to see...no call...the next play on the other end they call a touch foul on a made basket.

[Diesel]

I agree, the refs were kinda bad last night.. But I think it went both ways..

Violet was making some calls or no-calls that were favorable to us. But there was some times when it seemed like our players couldn't buy a call and the one you mentioned is one.

[Diesel]

Yeah, that billups call was classic.

He had no where to go, so he jumped into Ivey and stretched his leg out on Al and got a call...

I said BS when I saw that.

[Lascar78]

I think that there are dozens and dozens of calls throughout a basketball game that could go either way. When Salim is standing there and Billups jumps into him, the ref has to evaluate if Salim was set, and if his arms were vertical. If he is moving at all, leaning at all, or bending his arms towards billups at all it's a defensive foul.

These refs are human and consciously or not are aware of who's at home, who's a bigger name. I don't think that they blow their whistle and then think about who the bigger name is, and then go with that. I think it's subconscious with the NBA building up star power so much, and with having 20,000 people ready to get on your ass if you go against them. If I ask you to compare two girls and tell you one of them is currently miss america, you will probably tend to think she is prettier even if they are in fact equally beautiful. I think it's the same with refereeing. Subconsciously they probably assume that the "better player" probably made the "better play" when in doubt. Human beings are all biased. Basketball has a lot more calls that can go either way than most other sports too.

I also think that a spectator will remember the call that went in the big name's favor ("OMG THAT'S BS! DID YOU SEE THAT?"), and quickly forget the calls that go right, like the 4 fouls on sheed, or mcdyess' 4 fouls in 19 minutes. I think that this is a big part of people hating the refereeing.

I thought the game was called fairly last night. I think that the only stretch of bad officiating I saw was at the very start of the game when they went on a run on us and I thought that a number of those turnovers were fouls. But it went both ways.

[swolehawk2]

"also think that a spectator will remember the call that went in the big name's favor ("OMG THAT'S BS! DID YOU SEE THAT?"), and quickly forget the calls that go right, like the 4 fouls on sheed, or mcdyess' 4 fouls in 19 minutes. I think that this is a big part of people hating the refereeing.

I thought the game was called fairly last night. I think that the only stretch of bad officiating I saw was at the very start of the game when they went on a run on us and I thought that a number of those turnovers were fouls. But it went both ways."

To say that these officals don't know who they are calling fouls on on who has the ball and the ebb and flow of the game is naive....hell a high school ref knows when a teams best player has the ball.

This is where NBA officials fool fans like you...they call fouls that change the game when concerning star players or better teams....they even this out in the number of fouls by giving a Billups a touch foul on a Ivey a minute into the 3rd quarter...overall that foul call does nothing to affect the game.

However, when a good team/player is on a 5-0 run and the lesser team/player drives to the basket to stop the bleeding and there is no call when there is obvious contact...this is what kills the game....

It counts as one foul for each team...but they don't mean the same.

[Lascar78]

I didn't say that they don't know who the better players are. I said that they don't think about it, it's more of a subconscious thing. I've refereed quite a few games myself

Let me ask you this, in your scheme in which the refs deliberately set out to call important fouls on weaker players and make it seem less obvious by calling unimportant fouls later, what is their intent? these guys get reviewed thoroughly by league officials, coaches and GM's, and lose their jobs / get punished if they don't get it right. So what is in it for the refs?

Do you believe that the NBA gives them direct orders to assist the home teams and/or the teams with better records, and punishes them if they call it fairly? Or are they getting paid by someone else? Because every possible incentive I can see encourages and rewards them to call a fair game. Not to mention that these guys are not paid all that much and travel all the time, and usually get into the profession because they love the game so much.

So what do you believe is in it for them?

[swolehawk2]

The NBA accepts this officiating ....this type of officiating creates "great NBA moments" ex...the Jordan push off same winner against the Jazz....you think the NBA scolded/punished those refs for not making that call...nope.

You get the old phrase, "you can't call that against him this late in the game"

This is an NBA problem not just an officials problem. I understand it is tough to get everything right ....but fouls that give OBVIOUS advantages should always be called regardless of who fouled and how much time is left in the game.

[Lascar78]

you're not answering my question. I can understand why it would be to the NBA's advantage. I also don't think it would be in their interest for them to do anything about it because they have so much more to lose if anything gets out, that it is much much more risk than it's worth for some big names to get a few friendly calls. But that's not even the issue.

I am asking you what the motivation would be for the referees. These are guys who love the game. Does the NBA punish them for making fair calls on big names - i.e. clearly supporting uneven officiating? Are they getting paid by the mob for gambling purposes? What is in it for the refs, when bad reviews from coaches and GM's can cost them their jobs? Humans respond to rewards/motivations and threats/punishments. Who do you think is rewarding the refs for bad officiating, or punishing them for fair officiating? Or is it just their personal agenda because they love big names?

[swolehawk2]

You are missing my point, this is not considered bad officiating in the NBA...so why would the refs be punished for doing their jobs.

A foul has stipulations in the NBA, this is created by the NBA and not each individual ref...

"You can't get that call in this league that late in the game."

"He is just a rookie he can't get that until he earns respect."

"Don't expect the refs to bail him out on that one (unless he is a star), he had no place to go with the ball."

A foul is defined but the NBA adds stipulations. Not the individual refs, but the NBA has layed out a standard and a set of unwritten rules...been like that for a good while now.

"star treatment"

[AHF]

You are missing Lascar's point. You articulated a premeditated conspiracy to strategically call less meaningful fouls in an effort to artificially balance the line at the end of the game. He wants to know if you really believe this is something planned out and executed as you suggested or if you were exaggerating for effect.

[swolehawk2]

Right, one of the reasons refs check foul totals at the half, as well as game film, the next time you are watching any game and one team is getting a boat load of fouls in the 1st half watch the game early in the 3rd they usually call ticky tacks (fouls that have no real consequence)....to help even things out before you get into crunch time.

I am not saying they actually say to each other at the half lets go out and even things up...but the NBA definately has developed a pattern of how to ref games...and it is NOT lets call every obvious foul.

But what the average fan fails to realize when they say "I thought it was a fair balance of calls" is when the fouls are called ...how often do you see obvious fouls that are not called during big runs in a game...this happens a lot in the NBA...just because the Pistons or Heat or Spurs have scored 9 unanswered and their fans are going crazy, don't look a way when I drive to the basket and get raked across the arms.....and they get a fast break the other way.

[Popeye]

I think our players are too nice and do not act because they are young.

Our young players just play hard and think they will get a call, but not allways.

Half of the calls come from putting different expressions on your face just like AI.

[DJlaysitup]

I don't think it's a conspiracy as much it is an easy way out for some refs. As other sports have demonstrated lately, the players are getting faster and faster and the middle aged refs are having trouble keeping up. Sure they can rely on experience and knowledge of the game to get most calls right...but when it's a bang-bang play...they likely go with the star/home team (to some degree). Then it gets show in slowmo and they look like they're favoring one team or player over another (which I guess they are - but not due to a conspiracy).

Just MHO (lean toward the home team and get less stuff thrown at you )

[swolehawk2]

I have actually seen players box out for a rebound, the ball goes over their head, throw their arms up and yell as if pushed and get the call.

Sad, and flops....wow

and offensive jumping into the defensive player and getting the call.

and young players on bad teams have the worst time...I see why it is hard for them to be persistent.

Sometimes I think Smoove may just jump off a bridge.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

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you're not answering my question. I can understand why it would be to the NBA's advantage. I also don't think it would be in their interest for them to do anything about it because they have so much more to lose if anything gets out, that it is much much more risk than it's worth for some big names to get a few friendly calls. But that's not even the issue.

I am asking you what the motivation would be for the referees. These are guys who love the game. Does the NBA punish them for making fair calls on big names - i.e. clearly supporting uneven officiating? Are they getting paid by the mob for gambling purposes? What is in it for the refs, when bad reviews from coaches and GM's can cost them their jobs? Humans respond to rewards/motivations and threats/punishments. Who do you think is rewarding the refs for bad officiating, or punishing them for fair officiating? Or is it just their personal agenda because they love big names?

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The intent if for the same reason why they scheduled us to play Detroit coming off of the break. It allows the TV revenue teams to maintain momentum...thus ratings.