Is BK's dream being realized?

[thesheedera]

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fast pace = more points on offense and more points given up

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regardless of whether or not they play defense this year, ex is right about this

I haven't watched them play enough to have an opinion on how their defense looks this season, but its been plenty bad in the past.

[chillzatl]

obviously you don't remember. The year we got beat by NY was the year they broke the team down because we got ran out of the gym spreewell. The Charlotte loss wasn't pathetic. They were a good team. I'm not surprised that you don't remember..

[chillzatl]

I think you have it backwards. If you agree with ex, then you think their defense is good.

[DJlaysitup]

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Phoenix has over 9 more posessions per game than Detroit. Take away those posessions and what would opponents be averaging?

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Obviously there has to be some averaging done to be able to fairly compare a fat-break offensive team's defense to a 1/2 court one. Gotta agree with you ex. ..not to say Phoenix is a defensive juggernaut, but you gotta be fair.

[Lascar78]

"...for some tickets to the playoffs but the Hornets they won..."

[thesheedera]

No, I just don't have an opinion about their defense this season. It might be good even though they give up 100+ per game. PPG is not as good of an indicator of good or bad defense as points/possession is. A fast breaking team will always have more possessions in their games than a ball control team. More possessions, more chances to score.

So I'm just supporting his claim that 100 PPG is not enough to say a team is good or bad. Since I haven't seen them play much, I really don't know.

Also, I'm NOT a stat guy, I just happen to agree on this p-particular stat subject.

[exodus]

I bet Chillz hasn't watched the Suns more than once or twice all year.

The fact is that Phoenix is an exceptional defensive team until a shot goes up. After that they have problems. They are so undersized that they give up a lot of putbacks.

Now that Thomas is out they will struggle even more on the boards.

[chillzatl]

I've seen a few. Probably about as many as you've seen. I've seen enough to know that their defense isn't good enough to cover for them when they aren't hitting shots, no matter how many extra ones they get. That, in my opinion, makes them a bad defensive team (along with the fact that they give up over 100 per game).

I guess Dallas really was a good defensive team the last few years, since they got so many possessions. But still give up so many points.. I'm sure you could find a stat that made that clear to anyone with a walnut for a brain.

[Lascar78]

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I've seen a few. Probably about as many as you've seen. I've seen enough to know that their defense isn't good enough to cover for them when they aren't hitting shots, no matter how many extra ones they get. That, in my opinion, makes them a bad defensive team (along with the fact that they give up over 100 per game).

I guess Dallas really was a good defensive team the last few years, since they got so many possessions. But still give up so many points.. I'm sure you could find a stat that made that clear to anyone with a walnut for a brain.

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in all fairness, phoenix is currently not a great defensive team (although they are adequate and better than in the past), but when amare and thomas return they will be a great defensive team, which is the reason why I consider them as serious contenders this year while I didn't last year. Same with Dallas.

Just about every move this summer was aimed at improving their D, and having a more playoff-ready game.

Diaw,Kurt Thomas, and Bell all make them a better defensive team for instance.

[exodus]

There are only two great defensive teams in the league, San Antonio and Detroit (when they actually try).

Detroit has been on cruise control on D most of the year but are getting more intense now.

[tmac13]

92/93 1st round Bulls

93/94 2nd round Pacers

94/95 1st round Pacers

95/96 2nd round Magic

96/97 2nd round Bulls

97/98 1st round Hornets

97/99 2nd round Knicks

[chillzatl]

amare ups their rebounding. But he's not a great defensive player himself. His impact on D is more about rebounding and less about shot stopping/altering. They are a better defensive team than last year. But calling them good and especially great, is a big stretch.

[Lascar78]

Well I didn't mean to say that they are great as in one of the 2-3 best in the whole league, but I think they are quite good

Nash

Bell

Marion

Diaw

Thomas

is what they played for most of the year, where every single player is a well above average defensive player except for Nash. I would consider Amare a good defensive player. He is more exceptional on offense than on D, but he certainly is a good defender in my book. They also have guys like Jim Jackson, Brian Grant, and others that they can bring off the bench and play pretty good D.

I really see them as a very good defensive team from end to end, with Nash being the only notable exception. Last year they had Nash and Q routinely losing their man, and only Amare playing in the middle

[Plainview1981]

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obviously you don't remember. The year we got beat by NY was the year they broke the team down because we got ran out of the gym spreewell. The Charlotte loss wasn't pathetic. They were a good team. I'm not surprised that you don't remember..

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Yes, I remember that the team was getting old by the NY series as Smitty was already having his bad knees drained... Mookie had become pretty much a pure shot chunker by that time.

But still, it didn't help that Mookie was worried about his golf games and what was Lenny doing about it? Anything? I was still very young then and only watched the games.. I didn't read the press/newspapers and such back then.

So yes, I'm aware of the NY series... It's the first or second most embarassing thing that has happend to the Hawks since I've been watching. Atleast to me anyway.

About the Hornets... Of course they had a good team back then with Mason, Rice, Wesley, Muggsy and the rest. But the Hawks had a pretty good team aswell AND GOT SWEPT. Getting swept is pathetic. Not as bad as the Knicks series, but bad.

[Traceman]

it might not be our most effective lineup every night. I think that lineup worked best against NJ for several reasons. One, Chillz was our best defender against Kidd. Salim and Ivey were too small to keep him from posting them up but Chillz was difficult for Kidd to score over in the post. Two, NJ had no one who could guard Al man to man. Collins and Robinson are not quick enough and Jefferson is not big enough. Three, NJ doesn't have enough size to punish us on the glass like some teams do. Four, they weren't really quick enough to press us. If you can't effectively press the JJ/Chillz backcourt, that backcourt is a tough matchup for most teams.

[rascurrein]

Sometimes this discussions becomes rhetoric and everyone ends talking about teams which play 10 years ago.

I wrote a long time ago about having a strong starting line up and in the course of the game put players off the bench that can support the team play. I don't think that could help us on this part of the season. I think that now we should try to put together in court ZAZA and BATMAN. The reason is that Batman is considered a 4 and Zaza a 5 but Zaza can't still play at low post, thing that Batman can do really well, so with the rotation of Zaza and Batman and playing like brazilian teams (if you never saw a brazilian team they play this way: 2 men who play at low post but one allways goes out to the high when the other remains. And 3 men in perimeter who moves the ball all around the 3pt line most of the time whit out bounces, so they move the ball to the low post then they take the ball to perimeter and try to penetrate, shoot or the player who is at the low post try for himself, and the player who goes out of the low post goes to the high post and try to get free to shoot from), i think that could really win difficult games, and we will improove in defence.

[exodus]

Have to agree with everything, and i think it highlights JJ's value.

There are a lot of great players in this league that are difficult to play with. Teams struggle to find guys to fit in around them. JJ's game and personality are such that he gives the Hawks a lot of options as far as how he is used and the guys playing in the backcourt with him.

The more I watch JJ the more convinced I am he was the best free agent available last summer. No question I would rather have JJ than Allen or Redd. Last summer it bothered me how much they gave up to get him but it doesn't now.

[Traceman]

He legitimately can play 3 positions and I think he could play some 4 in certain situations if he had to. He will likely never be a full time PG because it takes too much out of him to have to bring it up EVERY time.. That said, if you take pressure off of him by letting the SG, SF or even PF (if it is Marvin or Al) bring it up sometimes when JJ is at the point, JJ can be very good in the role of PG for significant stretches. The kid can play.

[Seano]

Excellent. I have been waiting with bated breath for another Diesel/Luefan #10 brouhaha. Good stuff!

[Diesel]

Before we remake history...

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We got stomped by NY one year and if remember Charotte beat us bad one year aswell.

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Let's remember the circumstance.

It was a lockout shortened season. We limped into our first playoff series with:

1. Smitty's knees hurt.

2. Hendu double vision couldn't see.

3. Grant Long and Corbin in and out with injuries.

Then we limped out of Detroit (who were worse than us) and into NY.

Against NY I recalled we couldn't find a Sf or PF. We took the court with Just Mookie, Deke, and sometimes Smitty (his knees were not doing so well)...

And NY ran up and down the court and were physical. Spreewell ate our lunch.

The same NY team went to the finals..

Here's a memory..

Chris Crawford earned his contract by hitting 6 or 7 3 pters in the second half of a game during that series. He only played because Long and Corbin didn't have much in the tank.

After this, Babcock dismantled.

Charlotte just outplayed us.

They had Morning, LJ, and Bogues with Kendall Gill. I don't remember if we had Deke, but they had a much better team.