AL for Starbury?

[Lascar78]

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Duncan makes 15 mil Marbury 16 mill

Phoenix, They are paying Amare, and Marion both in the same range as Marbury

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Gee, Duncan, Amare, Marion, and Marbury. 4 potential franchise players and 1 guy who'll never win a playoff series

[AHF]

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Marbury is an albatross. If we were at sea and he was on board, the crew would tie a cannon to his legs and toss him overboard.

I'm not even sure that he would fill seats like some think. You don't really hear anyone get excited at the prospect of Marbury coming to their team.

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Best post of the thread. The Hawks should not consider bringing in this overpaid ego maniac. He has done nothing but drag teams down over his career.

I guarantee the second he is off the Knicks roster they will instantly improve and win more games. Anybody want to take me up on that bet? If not, why would you ever want him in Atlanta?

[Johnnybravo4]

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Add Marbury into this mix and you may essentially kill Josh Smith when he gets a taste of Steph's attitude. We have a hard enough time keeping his head in the game as it is. Secondly, you undermine the leadership of JJ and Al. Plus, you bring in a shoot first guard who has a possibility of bringing JJ's play down.

We have young guys who are gelling as a team together...why add in a rotten ingredient to kill that?

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What makes him a rotten ingredient? Because he is confident enough to think that he is the best pg in the league? Show me a upper echelon player who doesn't think he is the best in the league. We need someone with that Bravado. These are grown azz men, we are coddling our youth as if they are toddlers or somehing.

And you don't avg a career 8 assists per game if you are a "selfish" player. It is like I said yesterday, according to this board if you avg more than 15 points per game, then you are not a pure point. It is funny how winning changes peoples perception. Sam Cassell and Billups were in the same boat as Marbury until they started winning, now all of a sudden they are perceived as "true" pg. All of a sudden Sam Cassell has a good attitude and is good for team chemistry.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Marbury is an albatross. If we were at sea and he was on board, the crew would tie a cannon to his legs and toss him overboard.

I'm not even sure that he would fill seats like some think. You don't really hear anyone get excited at the prospect of Marbury coming to their team.

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Best post of the thread. The Hawks should not consider bringing in this overpaid ego maniac. He has done nothing but drag teams down over his career.

I guarantee the second he is off the Knicks roster they will instantly improve and win more games. Anybody want to take me up on that bet? If not, why would you ever want him in Atlanta?

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How could they not possibly improve? They have the worst record in the league. That is like saying that we have improved by adding Lang to the squad. The point is is that the team is badly constructed with talented players, somewhat like the hawks were when we had Reef, Big Dog, JT and the playoff guarantee. In Phoenix and Minnesota he had young teams where the superstars hit their stride after they left. But if you folks think that Watson, Miller, Nate Robinson, Speedy Claxton, Rondo, Brewer, JJ Redick or any other guard that could be available to us is a better option than Marbury then you guys don't know sh*t about basketball.

[AHF]

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And you don't avg a career 8 assists per game if you are a "selfish" player.

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The guy won't give up his own statistics for his team and refers to himself in the third person as "Starbury" during a press conference in which is he says he won't listen to the coach anymore and will play the game "his" way instead of the way the rest of the team is going to play. Yeah, he's not selfish at all.

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It is like I said yesterday, according to this board if you avg more than 15 points per game, then you are not a pure point.

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Did you even read my posts? Scoring is irrelevant to whether you are a true PG. It is about how you run the offense and play the game. This is a dishonest straw man argument you are knocking down. Do you really think that this board doesn't consider John Stockton a true point guard because he averaged over 15 points per game every season from 1988-1994? That is just dumbass stupid. Stockton was a true point because he put the offense as a whole before his individual play. Kidd, Magic, etc. all did this and their teams prospered. Marbury has never done this and his teams only prosper when they get rid of him.

[AHF]

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Marbury is an albatross. If we were at sea and he was on board, the crew would tie a cannon to his legs and toss him overboard.

I'm not even sure that he would fill seats like some think. You don't really hear anyone get excited at the prospect of Marbury coming to their team.

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Best post of the thread. The Hawks should not consider bringing in this overpaid ego maniac. He has done nothing but drag teams down over his career.

I guarantee the second he is off the Knicks roster they will instantly improve and win more games. Anybody want to take me up on that bet? If not, why would you ever want him in Atlanta?

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How could they not possibly improve? They have the worst record in the league. That is like saying that we have improved by adding Lang to the squad. The point is is that the team is badly constructed with talented players, somewhat like the hawks were when we had Reef, Big Dog, JT and the playoff guarantee. In Phoenix and Minnesota he had young teams where the superstars hit their stride after they left. But if you folks think that Watson, Miller, Nate Robinson, Speedy Claxton, Rondo, Brewer, JJ Redick or any other guard that could be available to us is a better option than Marbury then you guys don't know sh*t about basketball.

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Boy I guess Marbury is a star who is all about winning and it is a total coincidence that he has played for FOUR DIFFERENT TEAMS and they ALL sucked with him and got MUCH BETTER when he left.

Minnesota - Sucked with him and in playoffs without him

New Jersey - Sucked with him and in NBA finals without him

Phoenix - Sucked with him and in top 3 in NBA without him

New York - Sucks with him....??

New York would have won more games this year with Speedy Claxton at the point than with Marbury. Just dropping Marbury from their roster will lead to more wins.

It isn't because Marbury isn't talented. It is because he won't play defense; won't buy into a team concept; and is too selfish on and off the court.

[Johnnybravo4]

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And you don't avg a career 8 assists per game if you are a "selfish" player.

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The guy won't give up his own statistics for his team and refers to himself in the third person as "Starbury" during a press conference in which is he says he won't listen to the coach anymore and will play the game "his" way instead of the way the rest of the team is going to play. Yeah, he's not selfish at all.

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It is like I said yesterday, according to this board if you avg more than 15 points per game, then you are not a pure point.

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Did you even read my posts? Scoring is irrelevant to whether you are a true PG. It is about how you run the offense and play the game. This is a dishonest straw man argument you are knocking down. Do you really think that this board doesn't consider John Stockton a true point guard because he averaged over 15 points per game every season from 1988-1994? That is just dumbass stupid. Stockton was a true point because he put the offense as a whole before his individual play. Kidd, Magic, etc. all did this and their teams prospered. Marbury has never done this and his teams only prosper when they get rid of him.

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Stockton was a true point because he was white. If Marbury was a white dude they would be talking about him like Steve Nash. But seriously, take the current drama with Larry Brown with a grain of salt. LB pisses off everyone he coaches, especially point guards. Think about how many times A.I. had "starbury" statements during LB tenure in Philly. I am still waiting for Francis to say.."Im franchise, why am I coming off of the bench"?

[AHF]

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Stockton was a true point because he was white. If Marbury was a white dude they would be talking about him like Steve Nash.

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Wow. You are just clueless.

Stockton was only a true point because he was white? That is one of the dumbest statement I have ever read on a basketball board. I try to abstain from commenting on posters rather than the content of their posts but Jesus H. Christ that is stupid.

Ignoring the obvious racism in the above post, why don't you explain why Magic and Kidd aren't true point guards.

Magic Johnson is only a true point because he...??? Oh yeah, it is because his teammates were too good.

Jason Kidd is only a true point because he....??? Hmm....

BTW - Nash promotes ball movement on his team. Are you saying that Marbury does the same?

[Johnnybravo4]

That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

[AHF]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

[Johnnybravo4]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

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I am just arguing the devils advocate side because people are quick to dismiss this deal without looking at the positives.

Marbury is the only player besides Oscar Robinson to Avg 20 pts and 8 assists for a career. You can't just dismiss that and say that he is just a chucker. You do not avg 8 assists per game by mistake.

How are you going to laud A.I. for his work ethic, when he bitches about practice,and you never heard Marbury bitch about practices. From what I seen from Marbury he hustles, and plays with pain. He plays decent defense (He avg 1.28 steals per game for his career).

Marbury just has the arrogance of someone who was told he was the best since 8th grade...hell they named a sandwich after him while he was still in high school!

If you want to say that he makes too much money, fine

If you want to say that he has an attitude that may rub some folks the wrong way, fine

But you can't deny his talent and that he could add something to this team..personally I don't know. But I can get way more excited about Marbury at the point next year than Royal Ivey, Speedy Claxton, Earl Watson, or Rondo..that is all that I am saying.

[Duff_Man]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

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I am just arguing the devils advocate side because people are quick to dismiss this deal without looking at the positives.

Marbury is the only player besides Oscar Robinson to Avg 20 pts and 8 assists for a career. You can't just dismiss that and say that he is just a chucker. You do not avg 8 assists per game by mistake.

How are you going to laud A.I. for his work ethic, when he bitches about practice,and you never heard Marbury bitch about practices. From what I seen from Marbury he hustles, and plays with pain. He plays decent defense (He avg 1.28 steals per game for his career).

Marbury just has the arrogance of someone who was told he was the best since 8th grade...hell they named a sandwich after him while he was still in high school!

If you want to say that he makes too much money, fine

If you want to say that he has an attitude that may rub some folks the wrong way, fine

But you can't deny his talent and that he could add something to this team..personally I don't know. But I can get way more excited about Marbury at the point next year than Royal Ivey, Speedy Claxton, Earl Watson, or Rondo..that is all that I am saying.

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Positives:

Scores points

His GT peeps will fill 50 more seats

Negatives:

Everything else about him.

Mortgaging the well-being of the team is completely not worth it. What you fail to realize is that stats aren't everything. His attitude is so horribly awful that it can bring everyone else around him down. And it is one thing to have an air of arrogance and feel that you are the best in the league, it is another to constantly gripe at the media, and blast your coach constantly.

If we were a fantasy team, sure. Since we exist in the real world of team sports, hell effing no. Not now, not ever.

[Johnnybravo4]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

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I am just arguing the devils advocate side because people are quick to dismiss this deal without looking at the positives.

Marbury is the only player besides Oscar Robinson to Avg 20 pts and 8 assists for a career. You can't just dismiss that and say that he is just a chucker. You do not avg 8 assists per game by mistake.

How are you going to laud A.I. for his work ethic, when he bitches about practice,and you never heard Marbury bitch about practices. From what I seen from Marbury he hustles, and plays with pain. He plays decent defense (He avg 1.28 steals per game for his career).

Marbury just has the arrogance of someone who was told he was the best since 8th grade...hell they named a sandwich after him while he was still in high school!

If you want to say that he makes too much money, fine

If you want to say that he has an attitude that may rub some folks the wrong way, fine

But you can't deny his talent and that he could add something to this team..personally I don't know. But I can get way more excited about Marbury at the point next year than Royal Ivey, Speedy Claxton, Earl Watson, or Rondo..that is all that I am saying.

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Positives:

Scores points

His GT peeps will fill 50 more seats

Negatives:

Everything else about him.

Mortgaging the well-being of the team is completely not worth it. What you fail to realize is that stats aren't everything. His attitude is so horribly awful that it can bring everyone else around him down. And it is one thing to have an air of arrogance and feel that you are the best in the league, it is another to constantly gripe at the media, and blast your coach constantly.

If we were a fantasy team, sure. Since we exist in the real world of team sports, hell effing no. Not now, not ever.

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You might not care about stats but if you believe that a 20ppg 8 apg HOFer doesn't help this team, but a career 5 pt 3 assist payer would then you are nuts.

[Duff_Man]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

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I am just arguing the devils advocate side because people are quick to dismiss this deal without looking at the positives.

Marbury is the only player besides Oscar Robinson to Avg 20 pts and 8 assists for a career. You can't just dismiss that and say that he is just a chucker. You do not avg 8 assists per game by mistake.

How are you going to laud A.I. for his work ethic, when he bitches about practice,and you never heard Marbury bitch about practices. From what I seen from Marbury he hustles, and plays with pain. He plays decent defense (He avg 1.28 steals per game for his career).

Marbury just has the arrogance of someone who was told he was the best since 8th grade...hell they named a sandwich after him while he was still in high school!

If you want to say that he makes too much money, fine

If you want to say that he has an attitude that may rub some folks the wrong way, fine

But you can't deny his talent and that he could add something to this team..personally I don't know. But I can get way more excited about Marbury at the point next year than Royal Ivey, Speedy Claxton, Earl Watson, or Rondo..that is all that I am saying.

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Positives:

Scores points

His GT peeps will fill 50 more seats

Negatives:

Everything else about him.

Mortgaging the well-being of the team is completely not worth it. What you fail to realize is that stats aren't everything. His attitude is so horribly awful that it can bring everyone else around him down. And it is one thing to have an air of arrogance and feel that you are the best in the league, it is another to constantly gripe at the media, and blast your coach constantly.

If we were a fantasy team, sure. Since we exist in the real world of team sports, hell effing no. Not now, not ever.

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You might not care about stats but if you believe that a 20ppg 8 apg HOFer doesn't help this team, but a career 5 pt 3 assist payer would then you are nuts.

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And if you think the words "Stephon Marbury" will ever be in the Hall of Fame other than being on the same roster as Kevin Garnett, you are the one who is nuts.

[exodus]

Marbury: 'It's personal now'

posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2006

filed under: NBA, New York Knicks, Stephon Marbury

The Larry Brown vs. Stephon Marbury feud escalated this morning at the Knicks' shootaround, the hate-hate relationship sinking to new depths of discord.

First, Marbury stood before reporters, called Brown insecure and vowed he'd keep striking back at Brown whenever he feels he's been publicly criticized.

Next, Brown castigated Marbury for having a selfish agenda and deflecting blame.

"I think it's personal now," Marbury said. "I don't think it's about basketball anymore. Now it's to the point where he's putting his 30-year career against my 10-year career. You know, coach is a great coach is what everyone says. We're supposed to be better than what we are. Did it happen now? No."

Brown was a portrait of disgust one day after asking people to compare his track record vs. his point guard's. Criticizing Marbury's "agenda," Brown also insinuated that Marbury hadn't accepted his share of the criticism for the Knicks having the NBA's worst record despite its highest payroll.

"So, you're the best guard in the league and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault," Brown said.

This was the fifth straight day of the two adversaries bickering at each other, and Wednesday's developments left the rest of the team staring in disbelief as first Marbury, then Brown, went through the ritual of airing their gripes through the team's beat writers.

"You've got to wonder whether both these guys own newspaper stocks," quipped Howard Beck of the Times.

A few more quotes from Marbury's diatribe and Brown's retort:

From Marbury:

"If coach is comparing his career to my career, he's got like a 20-year edge on me. To me that sounds like a lot of insecurity is going on. … He's speaking on things he's done, and I think people in New York want to know what he's going to do, you know, as far as us winning. What happened in the past is the past. I think New Yorkers can relate [to] what's going to happen now. We live more in the present."

On whether Brown had crossed the line by comparing his own track record of improving the teams he has coached to Marbury's history of failing to make better any of the teams he's been traded to:

"He always crosses the line. That's not nothing new. Certain coaches deal with certain things certain ways, and he handles his things through the media as opposed to sitting down and talking with people. And still, if you sit down and you talk with coach, it's liable to get back to everybody, so you're really not safe there either."

On whether he wants to play for Brown:

"I want to play basketball in New York. I love New York, and I believe New York loves me. … I'm at the point where I just want to win, and I want to play in New York more than anything in this world. But if that's not happening next year, I can't cry about it. I've been in this situation before and I understand, I know it's a business."

On whether Isiah Thomas should step in and try to resolve the feud:

"We don't have to have another grown man come and mediate two grown men. What's that about? He's the boss, but if there's a problem, come to me like a man. I don't have no problem. I'm comfortable with myself. I know who I am as a person."

On their future:

"I can coexist. I can't speak for another person. I'm cool. I'm fine. I can deal with it. But I'm no longer going to allow him to say things about me and I'm not going to say anything back. I mean that's just not going to happen. That's not going to happen. I allowed him to drag me the first three or four months in the paper, and I didn't say one word. I just sat back and just took it. But I'm not taking it no more. If something's going to be said, I'm going to defend myself. My mother taught me that: Somebody hits you, you hit them back."

On what the solution might be:

"I don't know. If I was a chemistry teacher, I'd probably have an answer, but I don't. … I don't need no new start. My start is right here in New York unless they say otherwise."

A few snippets from Brown:

Upon being informed that Marbury planned to continue answering perceived slights through the media:

"That's great, that's great. Again, I'm the coach of a basketball team, and the only thing that matters to me is that we play the right way, share the ball, try to guard and care about our teammates. I'm going to focus on that. I'm not going to focus on things that have nothing to do with being a good teammate. I've been coaching the same way my whole life. Things that really matter, I've said over and over and over again. It's amazing to me. I've never had a problem getting people to understand that before, and it's mind boggling to me after we win two games that it becomes an issue. So I want to focus on guys that are trying to do the right things to help our team win, and that's what I'm going to do."

Ever deal with anything like this before?

"Never. Never."

Does it raise doubts in Brown's mind about whether he and Marbury are a good pairing going forward?

"Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No coach, no coach, would enjoy this situation. Because every coach that coaches this sport, it's about team. And when you hear players talk about team, you get real excited. When you don't hear players talk about team, it's not a lot of fun."

Would he walk away in frustration?

"No, no. No, no."

Is the best solution to trade Marbury over the summer?

"I'm not even thinking about that. I'm just trying to coach our team and make guys better. I want guys that care about the team that want to win games that understand what our problems are and try to correct them."

Is Marbury one of those guys?

"Well, we'll see. We're 17-45, and I'll take full responsibility for us winning 17 games and losing 45. So, you're the best guard in the league and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault.

" I don't know why you play a team sport and not be concerned about making your teammates better and helping your team win games. That's the only thing that really matters, and if you're the best player, surely you're going to have some effect on the game's outcome. And I've said this from Day 1, I've never given anybody in my career more free rein. In my career. And I went to the conference finals with Haywoode Workman as the point guard. Eric Snow was the fourth-string point guard in Seattle, and we went to the NBA Finals [with Snow in Philadelphia].

" I've been around guys, and every good team, it's all about team, and that's what we're going to try and get. You want to come and join that? That's fine. That's the only message that needs to be sent. You want to be part of the team and make your teammates better, you want to care about the right things and playing the right way, this is a pretty good place to be. You don't have that on your agenda, then this is probably a bad place to be."

[Packfill]

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That was tongue in cheek dumbazz

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Then what the hell is your point here? Just trying to get a rise out of people?

Marbury is nothing like Nash, Kidd or any other true point guard and does nothing but drag down the teams he plays for while collecting a huge check.

Allen Iverson is a chucker but he is a chucker who plays his #$ off and wins games. I can root for a chucker like that. How can you expect anyone to root for the Hawks to acquire someone like Marbury?

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I am just arguing the devils advocate side because people are quick to dismiss this deal without looking at the positives.

Marbury is the only player besides Oscar Robinson to Avg 20 pts and 8 assists for a career. You can't just dismiss that and say that he is just a chucker. You do not avg 8 assists per game by mistake.

How are you going to laud A.I. for his work ethic, when he bitches about practice,and you never heard Marbury bitch about practices. From what I seen from Marbury he hustles, and plays with pain. He plays decent defense (He avg 1.28 steals per game for his career).

Marbury just has the arrogance of someone who was told he was the best since 8th grade...hell they named a sandwich after him while he was still in high school!

If you want to say that he makes too much money, fine

If you want to say that he has an attitude that may rub some folks the wrong way, fine

But you can't deny his talent and that he could add something to this team..personally I don't know. But I can get way more excited about Marbury at the point next year than Royal Ivey, Speedy Claxton, Earl Watson, or Rondo..that is all that I am saying.

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There are NO POSITIVES to the acquisition of Marbury. None. He would destroy what little chemistry the team has been able to generate and he would poison the young players.

[GST]

I believe Larry Brown is trying to pressure Marbury into forcing a trade. I don't care for Marbury's game, but a coach who airs his grievances with players through the media, whatever the reason, is scum in my book. You can't expect much from a team when the coach is leading by example like this.