Diesel's Hawks draft 2006.

[Diesel]

Diesel speaks reality.

Think about it..

If we had Paul right now..

Our team would be Paul/JJ/JSmoove/PF from this draft/Zaza.

Aside from Zaza.. That's a core that could be one of the best for the next decade.

But we passed on Paul..

we grabbed Marvin....

Wouldn't you call that a miscalculation?

Miscalculation from the standpoint that now we have a "REAL" Logjam with Smoove/Marvin both playing Sf.

You can say what you want.. Hell, we can even say that Chillz is a BU SG to make more room for Marvin.. But the truth is...

JSmoove is not a PF type and isn't progressing that way. Marvin is not a PF type...

We have 2 guys playing the same position and neither guys name is Al.

This upcoming draft is filled with Pfs... we can patch the hole at Pf up with one of these up and coming guys... However, that makes the logjam more evident.

So instead of talking about getting one of the better players in the draft at a needed position (PF)... we have to consider getting a lesser player at a needed position (PG) because we have Marvin.

If Noah and Aldridge are off the board when we pick... Our pick will probably be Roy or Foye or Collins or Williams. Not to take anything away from any of those guys or other PGs in the draft, but none of those guys are as good as Chris Paul. And we will still need a PF or C.

Wouldn't you call that a miscalculation?

[thesheedera]

If you're using the logjam argument, you have to admit that taking Childress and Smith were miscalculations as well.

[Lascar78]

you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG. So we'll never know, but you can't just assume that who we drafted would not affect who we pursued.

[Popeye]

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If you're using the logjam argument, you have to admit that taking Childress and Smith were miscalculations as well.

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Agree we took 3 SF in that draft

[DJlaysitup]

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you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG...

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That logically brings up another question. Who would you rather have on this team (if you can only have one) - JJ or CP?

That's a tough one considering: CP is younger, but JJ is still young. PG position is generally thought harder to fill (with quality), but JJ has had a great year, primarily at the 2. I'd have to think long and hard on that one.

[Diesel]

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And no one would have argues that CV was further along in development than Marvin was anyway.

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What the Williams video shows is that he can dunk if he's on the break or if he's wide open and a good pass is made. I saw more skill in the Villanueva Video..

I would be pleased as punch if we could trade down, get Paul or Williams... And Frye or Petro..

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Do you watch him?

His game to me is similar to KG's. He gets rebounds easily. I watched the pitt/Uconn game (Boone vs. Taft).. I was disappointed in both of those guys but Charlie V. just keep getting board after board. He's effortless in his movement up and down the court. I see him as the type of player who would excell with a running team. I think he would have to work on his low post game a little more to be considered a pro PF BUT I think he could play the position. Sheez..If not, who wouldn't want a 6'11 Sf? He's sorta like Gasol with less polish and more atheletic ability.. way more.

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I have been a fan of Villanueva. He's everything that BK likes...

Long, Athletic, Defense, Versatile.

Over his last 10 games at UCONN (including the NCAA Tourney) he scored:

19.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.4 bpg, while shooting 59.4% (69-116) from the field and 66% from 3pt line...

This is a guy who can be molded into KG. He already has the size, length... He already has the inside/outside game. He needs some polish and the right coach. You guys who say hes slow??? I don't see it... He seems very quick to me especially on the break.

Plus he's already 6'11 240...

He's going to be a good one...

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[Diesel]

Taking Childress and Smith were more acceptable..

When we took Childress and Smith..

1. We had Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

2. Smith's position was unknown at the time.

3. Smith was a pick for the home crowd at the phil.. I think Smith was picked on the basis of potential but it was also because he was from Atl and new ownership was trying to find something that compelled fans to come out.

However, when we picked Marvin...

1. We knew we had: JSmoove, JChill, Diaw, Donta, and Al all on the team who could play the Sf position.

2. JSmoove and JChillz had done a very credible job at the end of the season which made many believe that they were the cornerstone of the team's future.

So what was the purpose of picking Marvin..

Obviously... He had to be UNDENIABLE talent UNSEEN on the team already...

Miscalculation.

[Packfill]

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you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG. So we'll never know, but you can't just assume that who we drafted would not affect who we pursued.

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I think you can still assume JJ ends up here. He has admitted that he is more comfortable at the 2. He just wanted a larger role - rather then being the 4th option in Phoenix behind Amare, Nash and Marion.

A Paul/JJ back court would be one of the best in the league.

[AHF]

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you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG. So we'll never know, but you can't just assume that who we drafted would not affect who we pursued.

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I think you can still assume JJ ends up here. He has admitted that he is more comfortable at the 2. He just wanted a larger role - rather then being the 4th option in Phoenix behind Amare, Nash and Marion.

A Paul/JJ back court would be one of the best in the league.

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I agree. If we land Paul I don't see any reason why we still don't pursue JJ or why he wouldn't still want to be here.

[Lascar78]

BK said he was looking at him because he could see him at the point, with Chill at the 2. JJ also said that he wanted the chance to handle the ball more and be a point.

The fact that he has changed his story since then doesn't really matter. We still don't know how interested JJ or BK would have been if we had drafted the PG for our future.

Some might think that it's obvious that we still should have, others will think that there's no way that BK drafts a PG and then pays the max for what he thinks is another PG. The bottom line is that it's pure opinion, and we just don't know that JJ would be here if Chris Paul was.

[Johnnybravo4]

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you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG. So we'll never know, but you can't just assume that who we drafted would not affect who we pursued.

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I think you can still assume JJ ends up here. He has admitted that he is more comfortable at the 2. He just wanted a larger role - rather then being the 4th option in Phoenix behind Amare, Nash and Marion.

A Paul/JJ back court would be one of the best in the league.

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I agree. If we land Paul I don't see any reason why we still don't pursue JJ or why he wouldn't still want to be here.

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We were either looking for a big man or a versitile guard guard. Since we didn't agree with Eddy Curry we went the other route. If Marvin Williams went #1 we would have gotten Andrew Bogut. Ergo we weren't looking for a point guard in this offseason, other than the versatility that the type of guard JJ would give us.

[AHF]

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BK said he was looking at him because he could see him at the point, with Chill at the 2. JJ also said that he wanted the chance to handle the ball more and be a point.

The fact that he has changed his story since then doesn't really matter. We still don't know how interested JJ or BK would have been if we had drafted the PG for our future.

Some might think that it's obvious that we still should have, others will think that there's no way that BK drafts a PG and then pays the max for what he thinks is another PG. The bottom line is that it's pure opinion, and we just don't know that JJ would be here if Chris Paul was.

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We don't know for sure, but JJ still fit the profile for FAs that BK was pursuing. BK clearly wanted to make a splash in FA.

JJ was young

JJ was versatile

JJ was talented enough on both ends of the court

For those reasons, JJ was at least as attractive as guys like Redd, Hughes, etc.

As for duplication of position, I'm not sure why anyone would think BK wouldn't take JJ because he thought of him as a PG when he drafted Diaw, Smoove, Chills and Marvin with his first round picks. At the very least, can't people see BK gleefully envisioning two pgs on the floor at the PG and SG positions?

[AHF]

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you can't assume that we get JJ if we had Paul. BK fully believed the JJ as a 1 argument, and he might not have pursued him if we drafted a PG. So we'll never know, but you can't just assume that who we drafted would not affect who we pursued.

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I think you can still assume JJ ends up here. He has admitted that he is more comfortable at the 2. He just wanted a larger role - rather then being the 4th option in Phoenix behind Amare, Nash and Marion.

A Paul/JJ back court would be one of the best in the league.

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I agree. If we land Paul I don't see any reason why we still don't pursue JJ or why he wouldn't still want to be here.

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We were either looking for a big man or a versitile guard guard. Since we didn't agree with Eddy Curry we went the other route. If Marvin Williams went #1 we would have gotten Andrew Bogut. Ergo we weren't looking for a point guard in this offseason, other than the versatility that the type of guard JJ would give us.

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That is a reason not to go for Paul and not a reason why we wouldn't go for JJ even if we took Paul.

[Johnnybravo4]

All I am saying is that a big man was our priority in the offseason, since we didn't draft one, and we didn't get one in the beginning of free agency we went after a guard. And then got Zaza last minute. If we draft Paul then we probably would have either overpaid for Dalembert or Curry, or just did nothing, because 2 guard was not a priority. We got JJ as a point. Remember the original lineup was

JJ

Chills

Smoove

Al

Zaza

So if we draft Paul there is no reason to get JJ because Childress was our 2 guard. At best our linup would have been

Paul

Childress

Smoove

Al

Dalembert

And instread of giving JJ 70 million, we would have gave Dalembert 50-60, and he doesn't even start on his own squad anymore.

And another thing, we have no idea how Paul would have performed on this squad.

And another thing, even if we went pg it probably would have been Deron williams instead of Paul anyway.

[AHF]

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All I am saying is that a big man was our priority in the offseason, since we didn't draft one, and we didn't get one in the beginning of free agency we went after a guard. And then got Zaza last minute. If we draft Paul then we probably would have either overpaid for Dalembert or Curry, or just did nothing, because 2 guard was not a priority. We got JJ as a point. Remember the original lineup was

JJ

Chills

Smoove

Al

Zaza

So if we draft Paul there is no reason to get JJ because Childress was our 2 guard. At best our linup would have been

Paul

Childress

Smoove

Al

Dalembert

And instread of giving JJ 70 million, we would have gave Dalembert 50-60, and he doesn't even start on his own squad anymore.

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I disagree that we wouldn't have been interested in JJ or given Dalembert money just because we drafted a PG. We drafted a SF as it was so why wouldn't we sign a big man if it made sense for us then? We didn't because Dalembert and others didn't make sense for us. Moreover, Dalembert resigned before meeting with us for $64 million. How would we have possibly signed him for 50-60 M?

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And another thing, we have no idea how Paul would have performed on this squad.

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It is different with any team but he has shown he is a player and would, IMO, be successful on any team where he started.

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And another thing, even if we went pg it probably would have been Deron williams instead of Paul anyway.

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If you believe the media, I totally agree.

However, we aren't predicting who the Hawks would have drafted here. We were discussing whether they should have drafted someone ahead of Marvin. Based on what I see today, I would draft Paul if I had a second crack at this draft.

Again, I don't see why JJ wouldn't still be a great fit for this team if we had drafted Paul instead of Marvin. We go from:

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Childress

Smoove/Marvin

Al

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to

Paul

Childress

Smoove

Al

_____

and JJ can play PG, SG or SF. What is the downside to signing him?

[Lascar78]

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Based on what I see today, I would draft Paul if I had a second crack at this draft.

Again, I don't see why JJ wouldn't still be a great fit for this team if we had drafted Paul instead of Marvin.

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Agreed and agreed. But I'm not so sure that BK and JJ still would have been as interested in each other. I never really thought of JJ as a point.

[Packfill]

I really think that the whole point guard thing was lip service by BK and JJ to get Phoenix to back off on matching. If both BK and JJ were truly committed to the point guard thing the experiment would have lasted more then 5-6 games.

In the end, JJ wanted to be the man on a team, not the 4th option like in Phoenix.

[Lascar78]

could very well be. We'll never know though.

If it was just lip service, why even start JJ at the point to start the season? He was already signed

[AHF]

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could very well be. We'll never know though.

If it was just lip service, why even start JJ at the point to start the season? He was already signed

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Because Tyrone Lue isn't a starting quality player but Childress/Marvin/Smith are (long-term). If you could bring Lue off the bench that was a better way to go. It is telling that even after JJ was moved to SG that Ivey was the starter and not Lue.

[bisonblu]

1. Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah

2nd Rd.

Guillermo Diaz or Daniel Gipson