Al Has Officially Replaced JT As The Board's Scape

[exodus]

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Especially by guys like you and Exodus who don't watch the game but give second hand reports from other people who don't like AL.

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Do you actually try to act dumb, or is it just a natural gift?

I have said many times that Al seems to exert more effort defensively on the perimeter.

But inside he just lets everyone go. I don't know what his problem is but it clearly isn't going away.

[exodus]

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Last night in the first quarter AL did contest a shot..

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if you actually read what I said you would know you are wrong.

How many times did Al contest a shot INSIDE. You may have to watch your tape again.

Challenging a shot 15 ft away from the basket has nothing to do with my comment.

[Diesel]

Being that AL wasn't trained as a PF and that Al is not a shot blocker.. why do you expect Al to excel at what real PFs are trained to do??

Do you expect JJ to be as good on the drive and dish as Steve Francis??

Do you expect JC to have perfect form on his shot like Ray Allen?

You readily acknowledge that Al is a better perimeter defender than post defender... You readily admit that right? Well why do you expect him to all the sudden become a post defender..

I guess it's just anything to make your argument right??

Instead of thinking about it your way..

Why not look at what he brings and try thinking how the team would be if we got a post defender who could provide help defense and played Al in the Highpost like Woody does sometimes??

I think about that and it makes me Smile.. Because then I know that I won't hear your bithcing on here..

[Lascar78]

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Hell Last night, he went diving into the stands trying to get a steal...

NOBODY

on this board murmured a word about that.. But if he doesn't block a shot like Smoove.. oh, we hear it for days...

This is what Lascar is talking about.

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yes and no. I do think that what he does well goes uncredited, and that's unfortunate.

But I do think that he's a very average defender, and a horrible help defender, and that it's mostly due to effort. Having said that, there aren't that many players that bring his skills to the table. This is a major flaw, but most players have some flaws.

It's for sure that part of it is the JT effect where your flaws get magnified on a bad team, especially a bad defensive team.

[Diesel]

Well, that's what I was getting at.

Here.. we hear day by day all negative about Al. No positive.

Al could score 100 points and somebody would harp on the fact that he didn't contest a layup...

Al could get 10 steals in a game and somebody would harp on the fact that he didn't get one block...

Al could go diving for balls 12 times in a game and somebody would complain about Al not making an effort in the lane.

Al makes good passes lots and lots of passes and on Hawksquawk you read that he's a ball hog?

There's a definite anti-Al air on Hawksquawk...

I'm going to be laughing when BK resigns Al and gets Nene or Butler too.

[Lascar78]

yeah but you don't have any credibility in saying that because your anti-Marvin crusade is more evident and persistent than any other poster's anti-anyone campaigns

[Diesel]

I'm alone in my feeling that Marvin was the wrong pick for us.

However, it's a vast right wing conspiracy going on against Al.

History will definitely decide who was right.

[Lascar78]

First of all you're far from the only one harping on the marvin pick on a regular basis so don't make yourself into a martyr just yet.

Secondly, the point is, there's no reason to constantly bash a player and refuse to acknowledge what he does well. That applies to you and others for Marvin and to others here for Al. You can still dislike a pick or a player and still recognize what he does well if you're not full of it

[thesheedera]

Quit crying Diesel, I would say a majority of this board agrees that Marvin was the wrong pick, in hindsight, but the margin of error is what makes you different from the rest of us. You are the only one who thinks it was an absolutely devestating pick. Many of us think Marvin can still prove himself to be the right pick over time.

I like Al alot, personally. As a matter of fact I like all our players, and I don't hold it against one guy because he's playing the same position as another guy.

Your comment about Al not being "trained" as a PF is sort of ridiculous. He plays PF, he should be able to defend other PFs anywhere on the court. He should be giving maximum effort.

How would you react if I made an excuse for Marvin's poor play by saying he wasn't "trained" to be a super star. You'd freak out.

[exodus]

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You readily acknowledge that Al is a better perimeter defender than post defender... You readily admit that right? Well why do you expect him to all the sudden become a post defender..

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It doesn't take much training for Al to raise his arms over his head when someone is shooting a layup in his face. Even you could do that but for some reason Al can't.

If he can contest a perimeter jumper why can't he contest a shot inside? I am not expecting him to be a shotblocker but just giving guys a free pass in the lane is unacceptable even in a pickup game.

[Traceman]

I just don't understand why it is either/or with so many of our players. I can root for Marvin and acknowledge when he does something wrong even when I think Paul would have been the better pick (some of that is hindsight as before the draft, I rated them as 1a and 1b for me after Bogut). I can also root for Al and acknowledge when he does something good even if I want to see Marvin, Josh and Chillz on the floor more.

[thesheedera]

my guess...because we're losing

if we we're a playoff team, no one would give a rat's aise about who was playing where

[Traceman]

[Diesel]

Right now, what he "does well" is nothing I would applaud Smoove or Chillz or Al for doing..

This is my point about me..

I feel that Marvin was the wrong pick for us. Because I have been vocal in saying that from the beginning, people think that everytime Marvin makes a Layup, I should be kissing his shoes with praise... and If I don't then I'm just being a hater....

When the truth is that to me, he has done nothing praise worthy and it really becomes a trick for the board to see if Diesel will praise Marvin. If Marvin does something praise worthy I will give him credit.. because at the end of the day, I'm still a Hawks fan.

But an average showing is nothing to get excited about because he should be doing that and More.

Last night Charlie V. scored 13 points and pulled down 13 rebounds.. I'm not praising that.. but Marvin has not gotten to a level where he can consistently do just the average... I mean, the other night, you guys were high fiving one another about Marvin's 14 points but nobody mentioned... and NO rebounds...

What are we praising here?

Most of the time, I think the view of the board shifts because I have unashamedly said that I think he was the wrong pick. There were some Johnny come latelys who came along after Paul started dominating... and there are also a few who mumbled that our logjam is real and we should have traded down or got one of the PGs...

However, I just can't bring myself to praise NOTHING.. especially when Al other options look so much better right now.

[Lascar78]

he's averaging 10.5/5.5 this month on 48% shooting in 25mpg. That's a lot better than a lot of guys his age have done, even those who went on to be stars. You can't ignore his age. CV is getting 13/8.4 in 34 mpg, and that's with his monster game.

Is CV playing a little better? Probably, but mostly due to more minutes. The point is you'd make it sound like one is a total stud and one is a total scrub whereas they are not that far off at all.

[exodus]

Funny but I don't see you bashing Childress. He was the 6th pick and is 23 years old. On the season he is averaging 10/5.3. So what don't you bash him for his lack of production?

Oddly enough Marvin is averaging the same thing over the last two months, and he is only 19.

[Diesel]

Even when I said something as plainly as possible... it's read back wrong.

I said that Charlie V. scored 13 with 13 boards and CLEARLY Said " AND I"M NOT Praising that".. Clearly stated... In order to point out because he was drafted 7th I expect those kind of numbers with his PT..> Now i wouldpraise his 48 the other night but that's another topic..

Yet somehow you read that I was saying that he was a stud???

I guess I must face the fact that it doesn't matter what I say, you guys will read in what you want... LIke Ex saying I was being sarcastic????

Whatever...

[Diesel]

Bashing childress??

That's the problem... it's personal

I lay out a platoform for why Marvin was the wrong pick for us and all the sudden, I'm bashing him??

YOu yourself have said that you would not have picked Marvin... Yet somehow, what I say " Marvin was the wrong pick for us" and what you said " I wouldn't have picked him" is somehow different??

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites who obviously can't read.

Or better yet you love to argue more than you love to think.

Well from now on, argue with yourself.

[Plainview1981]

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The problem is you don't watch games.

He does play defense. He's not a help defender. He's not going to go for the block shot.. But he does stay in front of his man. That's defense. Most of the time when we go zone, he will match up with much quicker players in the high post and he does a good job of staying in front of them. Most of the time when he matches up with big men in the low post he doesn't let them get their position easily.

Hell Last night, he went diving into the stands trying to get a steal...

NOBODY

on this board murmured a word about that.. But if he doesn't block a shot like Smoove.. oh, we hear it for days...

This is what Lascar is talking about.

His efforts go uncredited.. Especially by guys like you and Exodus who don't watch the game but give second hand reports from other people who don't like AL.

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Basketball is a team sport. Help defense is important. You think Dallas is a good defensive team because of one on one defensive players? No. None of JT, Van Horn, Dirk, Stack play great one on one defense.

The more the NBA becomes a perimeter game the more important team defense is to keep guards from getting into the lane.

Yes, it's great if players are great one on one defenders aswell.. But team defense is what is best. That's why those Euro's can take the US players out of their game when we can knock them for lack of one on one defense.

Like Ben Wallace... He's actually not that great of a one on one defensive player. Seen him get owned a number of times. Heck we saw Reef have his way with Ben Wallace... Ben defends Shaq alot worse than other players. That's why Detroit wanted Elden Campbell and they want to have a Dale Davis.

I've only seen Al this year the first couple of games of the year.. But I saw plenty of games last year. Yeah, he doesn't get abused one on one as much as other Forwards, but he doesn't rotate and gives up freebees. Also, he averages over 4 fouls per game. That's a sign that he isn't all that good of a defensive player.

Overall, I think man to man defense is probably most important at the guard and SF spot. Putting pressure on the ball and preventing your man from getting into the lane.

Even more so with the decline in inside players.

[exodus]

Unfortunately you have done a little more than just say marvin was the wrong pick, and you have said that countless times.

You criticize everything Marvin does and keep saying that you just have expectations since he was the number 2 pick.

What are your expectations for Childress as the number 6 pick? You talk about Childress' basketball IQ yet the fact is nobody has made more boneheaded plays at the end of games this year than Childress.

If Marvin had shot from half court with several seconds remaining in the game, or intentionally fouled someone with the Hawks only down 2 with plenty of time left, or let his man run the length of the floor to catch a long pass for a layup, or thrown away a critical inbounds pass late in the game....etc. you would have crucified him.

If Childress does these things, which he did, not a cross word from you.