Orl Game should Kill the Smith as a 4 Talk!!!!!!!!

[CBAreject]

Dwight Howard went #1 because he is a physically overpowering PF.

"offensive game is just starting to develop"

Exactly. Howard will score 18 pts most nights without really having to be creative. He's just that big, strong, and athletic.

Smith isn't the player he's going to be yet. I am not sure whether he can be a strong PF, but I definitely think it's a possibility. Who cares if he occasionally gets trounced as a 20 yr old by the most physically imposing PF in the game?

[LastDon]

I'm sick of everytime Smooth gets manhandled by a 4 that someone comes up with these lame excuses. "Just because he couldn't guard__________ doesn't mean he can't play the 4. KG,Sheed,Darko,Howard,Duncan,Wilcox,Brand, and a host of other guys have destroyed Josh on the block. The only 4 that he has guarded well this season was Webber and he has only one leg at this stage in his career.

I would love for someone to come up with a list of starting 4s that Josh would do a good job of guarding because every game I watch they just back him down and shoot over the top of him!!!!!!!!!!

[exodus]

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KG,Sheed,Darko,Howard,Duncan,Wilcox,Brand,

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Brand scored his season low of 12 pts when Josh started against him.

Sheed scored 3 baskets on Smith in the post the last time they played.

When has Smith guarded Duncan?

Darko scored 13. Big whoop.

Wilcox? The only time he abuses Josh is when Josh fails to box out and Wilcox gets putbacks.

KG is KG, and he didn't get to the basket at all. He just hit jumpers.

No question Howard is too big for Smith.

[LastDon]

You can say what you want but I've watched game after game that we have had to double team these guys because we didn't have the girth or the length to contain these players.

[exodus]

Of course Smith will have problems with guys 7', 260. All teams do. However other teams have bigs who can help.

The Hawks have Al and Zaza. Hence the Hawks pts in the paint defense is the worst in the league.

No question the Hawks need a center who can guard guys like Duncan, Howard, JO and Sheed.

[swolehawk2]

Yep...it is game to game around here.....a few months ago Smoove and Chillz were trade bait.

I'm gonna let most of you in on a little secret, Smoove can be damn near what he wants to be on the court. He has the tools and the frame to develop into a dominate 4 if he works hard and wants to.

[DJlaysitup]

Agree he can be pretty much what he wants to be...

...if I were he, I would want to be a hustling, shot blocking, break runnin, sky dunking, 3 jacking, SF.

Heck with that putting on 20 lbs and bangin against bigger dudes and getting all beat up every night. He does his part on D already, so why take on that job? Let em draft Big Baby for that work.

Truth is, it's not as easy as one thinks adding 20-30lbs of muscle to a frame like his without the juice...and even if he did he'd lose some hops.

[exodus]

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Truth is, it's not as easy as one thinks adding 20-30lbs

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Most power forwards aren't 20 lbs heavier than him. i don't think he needs to gain that much weight.

The Hawks just need someone to guard the big pfs that are really centers.

[DJlaysitup]

I think you're right ex...I just hate seeing these posts about turning him into something he's not already...he's the most exciting player we've got (I didn't say best - just most exciting)...

Reminds me of Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies trying to put weight on her thoroughbred horse so he could pull a plow in her garden better.

[exodus]

People are making a big deal about Josh not being able to guard Howard, but he can't guard Lebron, Tmac, Rashard, Marion..etc either.

At least in the post it is easier to help, and it is easier for him to help other guys when they get beat.

[Diesel]

The truth is the idea of moving Smoove to the 4 is for only one reason... To justify us picking Marvin.

Sorry my Marvin Loving friends.. but we dropped the ball.

Instead of grabbing the best and needed player available.. we duplicated what we already had. I fear we will do the same this draft unless somebody trades the pick.. which I would love to see happen and us get back JO.

Back to the truth.

There is nothing Sf about JSmoove right now.

and you guys believing that Just because you move JSmoove to PF he will automatically become a Sf is laughable.

It's as funny as saying that JT can become a pass first PG.

These positions were crafted not only with mentality and sizes but also with various skills. JSmoove has shown NO PF SKILLS nor do I think he has the mindset of a PF. He is about as much a PF as big dog.

Smoove hangs out on the perimeter. He likes the midrange shot. It's more than his coaching... I've as many post moves in Hawks games as Smoove.

When we first drafted Smoove.. do you remember what we called him??

"The guilty pleasure".

We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball. Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...

Just swallow hard and except these truths.

BK duplicated a position.

BK didn't think that Smoove could raise his skill level.

BK missed out on probably the best PG in the last 20 years... in a time when we needed a PG.

Ruining Smoove's development by making him play a position that he cannot will not validate Marvin and it definitely does not make us a better franchise.

To me, the best plan of action is to get a legitimate PF and a PG in here... with some C help...

If we don't take advantage of the pieces we have in front of us and come out with a real PF... then we need to fire BK...

[exodus]

to be reposted daily ad infinitum.

[Weez]

you do know that Amare's hurt right?

just making sure you know who is the most 'physically imposing PF in the game'...

Howard is not in the top 3 in that particular short list of players...

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

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The truth is the idea of moving Smoove to the 4 is for only one reason... To justify us picking Marvin.

Sorry my Marvin Loving friends.. but we dropped the ball.

Instead of grabbing the best and needed player available.. we duplicated what we already had. I fear we will do the same this draft unless somebody trades the pick.. which I would love to see happen and us get back JO.

Back to the truth.

There is nothing Sf about JSmoove right now.

and you guys believing that Just because you move JSmoove to PF he will automatically become a Sf is laughable.

It's as funny as saying that JT can become a pass first PG.

These positions were crafted not only with mentality and sizes but also with various skills. JSmoove has shown NO PF SKILLS nor do I think he has the mindset of a PF. He is about as much a PF as big dog.

Smoove hangs out on the perimeter. He likes the midrange shot. It's more than his coaching... I've as many post moves in Hawks games as Smoove.

When we first drafted Smoove.. do you remember what we called him??

"The guilty pleasure".

We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball. Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...

Just swallow hard and except these truths.

BK duplicated a position.

BK didn't think that Smoove could raise his skill level.

BK missed out on probably the best PG in the last 20 years... in a time when we needed a PG.

Ruining Smoove's development by making him play a position that he cannot will not validate Marvin and it definitely does not make us a better franchise.

To me, the best plan of action is to get a legitimate PF and a PG in here... with some C help...

If we don't take advantage of the pieces we have in front of us and come out with a real PF... then we need to fire BK...

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I agree we need to admit we made a mistake. Don't do the Detroit Lions w/ Joey Harrington and stay in denial for years.

We need to admit we screwed up and had a waste of a draft and move forward. We are still only 2 players away from being a very talented team. We need a big man and a PG.

We will get that big man in the draft without a doubt in Tyrus Thomas, Bargnani, or Aldridge unless the lottery completely screws us and all are gone.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

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Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.

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He hits the boards, throws a hard foul when needed, blocks shots, and dunks....what game do you watch?

Come on Diesel, if a PF does not hit the boards, throw a hard foul when needed, block shots, and slam the ball every now and then, exactly what do you think they do? Please explain this incredulous statement to me.

And please don't tell me that all PF's that shoot a three and like to shoot a three are automatically disqualified from being a "good" PF. Please don't go there......

[CBAreject]

You are so annoying. Always yelling at people. I still remember your saying "Mark my word. We're gonna get Penny."

You said that over and over and over. Even when someone corrected you and told you it was "Mark my words," you insisted on repeating yourself.

Look, Cletus. I didn't say that Smoove was a good PF now. I said I think there's a good possibility he could defend the position in a couple of years. I also said that the fact that he gets outmuscled by a hulking PF now doesn't mean that he won't ever be able to adequately defend the position.

You leave that part out of your whiney soap-box. I NEVER SAID SMITH IS A GOOD PF RIGHT NOW. I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BE. I ONLY SAID THAT HE MIGHT BE IN THE FUTURE.

To say that Smith will never play PF based on 1 stinking game in which he got outplayed by a hulk at the position is QUITE AUDACIOUS. I think it's much more reasonable to say that we can't say with certainty whether Smoove will play PF or not. We must admit he has potential, but we have some evidence that he is currently a bad defender.

Nah, just respond with some more screaming.

P.S.

10:1 you don't even know what "audacious means". 100:1 you will just read over it and not even look it up.

[CBAreject]

Oh....because being "physically imposing" is something that can be measured quantitatively?

-so you're "just making sure I know" who is really tops in a qualitative category? All that's certain is that you cannot be certain, yourself.

-and who decides how long the list is? If we're ranking PF's in order of "imposing-ness" , the list may as well have a place for every last one of them. Having more at the bottom wouldn't change who ranked at the top. If you're arguing that the list of physically imposing powerforwards is short (since most are not very imposing), then it's silly altogether. Nearly any NBA player is physically imposing by most opinions.

....just making sure you know that your post adds nothing to the discussion. Whether I am right or wrong about Howard being the most imposing doesn't change the fact that he is a beast and difficult to defend and box out. I might as well reply to you and say "You do know that it's spelled 'WHEEZE', right?"

[Diesel]

Unfortunately Buzzard.

Smoove has no Low post offense and his defense against true PFs is not so good.

If the game devolves into a halfcourt game what can Smoove do? Line up on the outside like a Sf right?

Smoove is not a 4 because he doesn't have the skillset of a 4.

All the things that you mentioned are the skills set of a Sf.

Hits the board = Sf

Throws a hard foul... I don't know how this qualifies for anything. Mark Jackson used to throw hard fouls.

Block Shots... With his athleticism coming from the backside, Smoove is more in the mold of G Wallace and SMarion than he is in the mold of Tim Duncan and Elton Brand.

Slam the Ball every now and then.... Uhm.. This is where you want to hang your hat for Smoove being a PF. Because he slams every now and then???? I guess Chillz is a PF too?

Every qualification that you have given applies to Chillz... So I guess Chillz can be a PF too?

[Diesel]

Don the truth is that these people who say that JSmoove is a PF wants Justification for Marvin.

If Marvin got hurt or better yet, if Marvin just quit and were not going to play any more and the choice was either to sign a Loul Deng or Tyson Chandler....

guess what these same people who want to make Smoove a PF would say..

"Oh, Smoove plays better at the Sf position, let's get Chandler."...

The choice to put Smoove at Sf for most has nothing to do with Smoove because if it did, they would consider his skill set.

[SmooveTheFuture]

Quote:

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Don the truth is that these people who say that JSmoove is a PF wants Justification for Marvin.

If Marvin got hurt or better yet, if Marvin just quit and were not going to play any more and the choice was either to sign a Loul Deng or Tyson Chandler....

guess what these same people who want to make Smoove a PF would say..

"Oh, Smoove plays better at the Sf position, let's get Chandler."...

The choice to put Smoove at Sf for most has nothing to do with Smoove because if it did, they would consider his skill set.

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I agree totally Smoove coming into the League was suppose to be a SF. Alot of people want to see Smith play a position which really has zero exp. playing because we have Marvin Williams here. Like I have said before as has Diesel we drafted Marvin Williams and he is the same player Josh Smith is. It is scary to think how good this team would have been not only this year but for the next 10 years with Chris Paul or even Raymond Felton coulda had the best young backcourt instead we are stuck with a big mess. We made a huge mistake in taking this guy we missed out on some of the best pgs in the last 10 years. If a trade presents it self where we could move one of these SF's for a big time PF or C we have to do it. Bottom line is Smoove is a SF and Marvin is SF none of them have the mindset or skills offensively to play the PF position it takes years and years to master low post moves your not just gonna put someone down there and expect them to be Bill Walton overnight. So one of these guys is going to have to go so the other one flurishes at the SF spot because they will be getting a majority of the minutes. Say we keep Smith here Marvin the 2nd overall pick is not gonna be content playing in his shadow and getting 20 mins a game frankly we cant afford to have the 2nd pick playing a back up role. Face the facts we made a huge mistake we need to move on trade one of these guys and Keep moving forward because when its all said and done we have 2 SFs that are 19/20 both of them cant be stars on this team playing the same position.