Orl Game should Kill the Smith as a 4 Talk!!!!!!!!

[Guest Walter]

Not the draft, unless we trade down, then a crap shoot. Not FAcy because this year is weak and a guy like Pryz, who is defensively a fit, was run out of here. Trade of Al? Not likely and not up to us, much less likely to get a decent center in return.

Moreover, it cannot be just a well-sized center. It must be a dominate 2-way center, as neither Josh or Marvin have a post move or are able to defend the post.

WHERE do we get this mythical player? Will we spend the next 4 years looking for him like we did the big Pg to run alongside JT? By then will any of our young talent remain?

No seriously, how do you expect to get this player?

W

W

[exodus]

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year is weak and a guy like Pryz, who is defensively a fit, was run out of here. Trade of Al? Not likely and not up to us, much less likely to get a decent center in return.

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Again showing your ignorance. Prz played 12 games here and left as a ufa and somehow he got "run out of here".

The Hawks have 15 million in cap space and one of the top free agents available for a SNT deal. I would say they are in better position than most teams to land a center.

And this two way dominate center nonsense is another strawman you have created to give yourself something to argue about.

[Guest Walter]

No, Pryz didn't get "run out" but we didn't chase much after him either. Moreover, you still don't suggest he's coming back.

2ndly, all the cap space doesn't mean squat when there aren't FAs to sign while Al has some value he is only a POTENTIAL trade commodity. He's not a max player so I don't see why you think other teams are going to pay anything including their future to get him. Moreover, he as much decides where he wants to sign. We must, to fill your hope above all hopes, have Al decide to go to a team with too many Cs, that team decide they want Al, that team decide they want Al enough to trade away a valuable center commodity, hope that the center commodity they are willing to trade is actually an upgrade over ZaZa, and then hope the salaries work. That's alot of hoping there for one who throws around the word "ignorant".

You can't even name a likely name of a center we could aquire this way. Not one rumored deal or even fanciful one in your dreamy little head.

"Tooth fairy bring us a well-sized dominate 2-way center so our lack of a Pf won't hurt so bad...Puleaze."

W

[exodus]

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2ndly, all the cap space doesn't mean squat

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Last year it didn't mean squat either, until they landed JJ.

If you don't have the money you can't spend it. The Hawks have the money available so saying it doesn't mean squat just shows your ignorance.

And Prz could easily wind up here. Portland cant do a sign and trade because they can only sign him to the MLE. Of the teams under the cap only NOK and Toronto don't have a similar player. NOK has a temporary home and will end up going back to NO which has obviously been devastated by the the hurricane. Toronto is in Canada, so I like the Hawks chances.

Al may not have a choice about what team he goes to if he wants to make maximum $$. REalistically the Bulls and NOK are the only ones who will go after him hard among the teams under the cap, but I doubt they will give him what he wants. I would say a SNT with Philly for Daly is very realistic.

And this two way dominant center nonsense is nothing more than one of your pathetic strawmen. The Hawks just need a defensive center whether he can score or not. He doesn't have to be a big time post scorer.

Care to take a guess which team is last in the league in pts in the paint scoring?

[Guest Walter]

Who the F*** scores in the paint for us? Again, this is PLAYOFF suicide. Have you ever watched the playoffs? Is this concept new to you? You can't walk into the playoffs without

BK already had his best chance to resign Pryz and blew it. Now we hinge our "future" on his deciding to do so on a far less likely chance. Great plan.

Try again. Oh and this time, unless all you have are adhominem attacks, lose the "ignorant" nonsense. I've accomplished enough schooling and otherwise to not deserve it whether or not it should come from the mounths of punks.

W

[exodus]

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Who the F*** scores in the paint for us? Again, this is PLAYOFF suicide. Have you ever watched the playoffs? Is this concept new to you?

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I didn't think you knew the answer. Detroit is last in the league in pts in the paint scoring and they have the best record as well as one of the best offenses in the league.

[Guest Walter]

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Who the F*** scores in the paint for us? Again, this is PLAYOFF suicide. Have you ever watched the playoffs? Is this concept new to you?

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I didn't think you knew the answer. Detroit is last in the league in pts in the paint scoring and they have the best record as well as one of the best offenses in the league.

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And yet they CAN score in the paint when they want to having Rasheed as a highly efficient post up option AND they have the best defensive combo at Pf and C in the league. Hmm? It's like you don't see their having a legit 2-way dominant Pf and dominate defensive center as a part of their success?

W

[exodus]

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It's like you don't see their having a legit 2-way dominant Pf

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Rasheed scores 2.5 pts in the paint, compared to 4.2 for JJ, 5.8 for Zaza, 4.3 for Smith, 3.2 for Marvin and 5.4 for Childress.

In fact 40% of Sheed's attempts are 3 pointers. So this is your two way dominant PF, who scores 16 ppg? PFFFFFTTT

Detroit is 3rd in the league in offensive efficiency (pts per 100 posessions) in spite of being last in the league in pts in the paint.. The other top 4 teams are Phoenix, Dallas and Toronto, all perimeter teams.

Of course you naturally change your argument again, having been shown to be wrong. As usual.

First you start with your"adjacent" nonsense even though I never said the Hawks should have an undersized center.

Then you try to say the Hawks won't be able to get a center even though they are $15 million under the cap and have a valuable trade asset in Harrington. Again nonsense.

Then you try to say THERE HAS TO BE A MAJOR INSIDE SCORER TO WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS. Wrong again. Sheed never has been a dominant post player. People always confuse what Sheed could do with what he actually does.

having been shown wrong again you quickly change the argument to defense. So lets talk defense. Who do the Hawks have to defend?

The top 10 scorers in the league are perimeter players. The only pf in the top 10 is Dirk and he is a jump shooter who plays like a 2.

Even the top scorers in the paint are perimeter players. Carmelo (10.6), Lebron (11.2), and Wade(10.0) score inside just as much as Howard (10.3), Yao (10.2) and Gasol (9.7).

In fact Tim Duncan (8.5) isn't the top inside scorer on his own team. Parker (9.7) has him beat.

The top post scorer in the east (other than a declining Shaq) is Bosh, who is a face up 4 who scores 7.2 pts in the paint.

So the Hawks need to be able to defend against perimeter players (Wade and Lebron) who are always looking to attack the basket. Seems to me that having one of the top shotblockers in the league waiting for them when they come inside is a big key to being able to defend them.

Of course I am sure you will try to change your argument again as you have been doing this entire thread.

[Peoriabird]

Way to shut him up Ex! Great post

[exodus]

The truth is the idea of moving Smoove to the 4 is for only one reason... To justify us picking Marvin.

Sorry my Marvin Loving friends.. but we dropped the ball.

Instead of grabbing the best and needed player available.. we duplicated what we already had. I fear we will do the same this draft unless somebody trades the pick.. which I would love to see happen and us get back JO.

Back to the truth.

There is nothing Sf about JSmoove right now.

and you guys believing that Just because you move JSmoove to PF he will automatically become a Sf is laughable.

It's as funny as saying that JT can become a pass first PG.

These positions were crafted not only with mentality and sizes but also with various skills. JSmoove has shown NO PF SKILLS nor do I think he has the mindset of a PF. He is about as much a PF as big dog.

Smoove hangs out on the perimeter. He likes the midrange shot. It's more than his coaching... I've as many post moves in Hawks games as Smoove.

When we first drafted Smoove.. do you remember what we called him??

"The guilty pleasure".

We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball. Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...

Just swallow hard and except these truths.

BK duplicated a position.

BK didn't think that Smoove could raise his skill level.

BK missed out on probably the best PG in the last 20 years... in a time when we needed a PG.

Ruining Smoove's development by making him play a position that he cannot will not validate Marvin and it definitely does not make us a better franchise.

To me, the best plan of action is to get a legitimate PF and a PG in here... with some C help...

If we don't take advantage of the pieces we have in front of us and come out with a real PF... then we need to fire BK...

Pretty funny looking back at Diesel's posts. Smith is probably the 2nd best power forward in the East now. Can anyone think of a 4 in the east other than Bosh that is better than Smith? Did the Hawks ruin his development by moving him to the 4?

Edited March 10, 2010 by exodus

[Joker]

Exodus always uppin sh** to prove stuff that everyone agree is pointless. We all know that Diesel been talking like this since 2006. It's no surprise. He wants you to argue with him, it's makes him feel special and gives him more reason to post the same trash as usual.

[exodus]

Exodus always uppin sh** to prove stuff that everyone agree is pointless. We all know that Diesel been talking like this since 2006. It's no surprise. He wants you to argue with him, it's makes him feel special and gives him more reason to post the same trash as usual.

He is going to post his anti-Marvin agenda whether i respond or not. Just look at the other Marvin threads going on now. I didnt force him to start his Harrington vs Marvin thread. I wasn't baiting him in the 5 page thread about marvin bashing.

You are just mad that you have gotten clowned by your past posts.

Edited March 10, 2010 by exodus

[AHF]

This thread is remarkable for the number of people who thought Smoove would never be able to compete at PF and who were not willing to see where his development and skills took him.

[MVP23]

fail

[Diesel]

Pretty funny looking back at Diesel's posts. Smith is probably the 2nd best power forward in the East now. Can anyone think of a 4 in the east other than Bosh that is better than Smith? Did the Hawks ruin his development by moving him to the 4?

Uhm...

What is Smith's low post goto move?

At the time I said it, all smoove would do is chuck shots from the perimeter....

When exactly did that stop?

4 years later....

after much much ridicule.

and if you give him the open shot (like the other day) he might still shoot us out of a game.

What I said then was the truth...

"We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball. Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason..."

How long did it take again???

Yeah, it's funny to see how blatantly truthful Diesel was.

[exodus]

Uhm...

What is Smith's low post goto move?

His running left handed hook.

At the time I said it, all smoove would do is chuck shots from the perimeter....

When exactly did that stop?

A long time ago. Smith scores 2.4 ppg on jumpers shooting 28.6% on those shots. So how he is scoring over 15 ppg shooting over 50%?

Smith posts up several times a game this year and he was doing the same last year. He didn't even start at the 4 until your boy Shelden busted out during the 06/07 season.

[Diesel]

His running left handed hook.

A long time ago. Smith scores 2.4 ppg on jumpers shooting 28.6% on those shots. So how he is scoring over 15 ppg shooting over 50%?

Smith posts up several times a game this year and he was doing the same last year. He didn't even start at the 4 until your boy Shelden busted out during the 06/07 season.

You're delusional.

That just stopped this season. He was still putting up over 1 3 pointer per game last year. Not to mention the many midrange shots he was taking. This year, through 63 games, he has only put up 6 three pointers. That's the role of the PF with no 3 pt shots. His running right hand hook is his move, but it's not a consistent goto post move.

[exodus]

You're delusional.

That just stopped this season. He was still putting up over 1 3 pointer per game last year. Not to mention the many midrange shots he was taking. This year, through 63 games, he has only put up 6 three pointers. That's the role of the PF with no 3 pt shots. His running right hand hook is his move, but it's not a consistent goto post move.

Lets look at your quote again.

At the time I said it, all smoove would do is chuck shots from the perimeter

At the time of your quote 62% of Smith's shots were jumpers and he scored 4.3 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05ATL9A.HTM

Last season 47% of Smiths attempts were jumpers and he scored 8.4 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

According to you Smith would take more perimeter shots at the 4. In fact he has been taking consistently fewer perimeter shots each year at the 4. He has also been scoring far more inside, where he is more effective.

In other words you couldn't have been more wrong.

Smith's left handed running hook has been so effective that teams are consistently overplaying his left hand and forcing him right. If he would just take another dribble or two when he spins right he would get consistently easy scores. He was killing teams with that left hand hook in November and that is why his shooting percentage was so high.

Edited March 11, 2010 by exodus

[Diesel]

Lets look at your quote again.

At the time of your quote 62% of Smith's shots were jumpers and he scored 4.3 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05ATL9A.HTM

Last season 47% of Smiths attempts were jumpers and he scored 8.4 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

According to you Smith would take more perimeter shots at the 4. In fact he has been taking consistently fewer perimeter shots each year at the 4. He has also been scoring far more inside, where he is more effective.

In other words you couldn't have been more wrong.

Smith's left handed running hook has been so effective that teams are consistently overplaying his left hand and forcing him right. If he would just take another dribble or two when he spins right he would get consistently easy scores. He was killing teams with that left hand hook in November and that is why his shooting percentage was so high.

Again, i see you butchering quotes.

If you quote me, quote me completely or not at all Ex.

"Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...""

Again, at the time there was a group (maybe you included) that were saying that Smoove would be a PF with post skills in 2006 because he had been working on it. You know, Context is everything. I said what I said to explain that Smoove would take 3-4 years to learn how to play in the post as a PF.

My golly... look. It's 4 years later and he has finally figured out that he does not belong on the perimeter chucking threes.

Let's see how Ex chooses to misquote me again??

[exodus]

Again, i see you butchering quotes.

If you quote me, quote me completely or not at all Ex.

"Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs. You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...""

Again, at the time there was a group (maybe you included) that were saying that Smoove would be a PF with post skills in 2006 because he had been working on it. You know, Context is everything. I said what I said to explain that Smoove would take 3-4 years to learn how to play in the post as a PF.

My golly... look. It's 4 years later and he has finally figured out that he does not belong on the perimeter chucking threes.

Let's see how Ex chooses to misquote me again??

LOL @ misquoting you when you claim that i said he would have post skills in 2006 because he is working on it. Where is that quote?

I actually use your words. You just make stuff up and pretend that i said it.