A reminder for the Marvin haters

[tmac13]

Thats also my concern, he seems mostly content with shooting deeps 2's at which he is average at best..When he does go inside he is a shotblock waiting to happen..I don't see anything in his game that says he is going to be anything other than a pretty good player..

I read the same posts from the same people defending DerMarr Johnson when he was a young player...I hope they are right this time.

[swolehawk2]

Nobody has any patience around him, or most don't accept the fact that the players you see now are prolly not the players u will see in the future..

Chillz and Smoove have added to their games from last year.

Marvin will do the same....it is called growth.

If we had a more experienced coach the process would prolly not take as long.

[Diesel]

I'm going to root for the Hawks..

But it doesn't change my feelings that he was the wrong pick for us.

Nor does it change my feeling that Paul or Deron would have been a better pick for us.

The point is..

we gambled in a time when we were supposed to make an important decision. Now Chillz, you can sit back and try to justify us gambling but the cards have already been turned over. We lost. All we can do is go on to the next hand and try to forget about the bad beat we just took. Unfortunately, too many of you are caught up into believing that there is some bright spot in picking Marvin. However, as long as we lack a 1,4, and strong 5 there is no bright spot. Calling Smoove a 4 just for the sake of ignoring the duplication is not going to make Smoove a 4. Every game it becomes more and more evident that he's not. You might think that waiting will make things better... But waiting while not making any significant Moves (and ignoring the truth about our situation) will do absolutely nothing. I'm not suggesting a knee jerk reaction (like picking Marvin was).. I am suggest a calculated reaction to get us back into a championship calibre. That means addressing our problems at 1,4, and 5.. preferably the 4 first.

Now, you may disagree with me on a lot of other things... But if you are really a fan of the Hawks (and not just Marvin), you can't deny the truth of what I have said.

[AHF]

There is no way to rationalize all the anti-Marvin posts. EVERYONE recognizes the duplicative nature of the pick and 99% of Hawksquawkers recognize that Paul would have been a better pick. Thus, you acknowledge that and root for Marvin to become the star many draft analysts predicted so that we end up the best team possible.

I think everyone recognizes we have needs at C and PG and that picking Marvin didn't address them.

The only debate is whether Josh Smith can be a PF and that has nothing to do with rooting for Marvin to develop.

Marvin developing is only good for the Hawks and a constant stream of negativity can't be justified by his play (which is probably slightly worse than expected for his rookie season but not out of line with projections) or team needs (he is more valuable to us and more valuable in trades the better he performs).

[macdaddy]

I understand growth, but I don't pretend to believe that I can evaluate very raw talent and predict if they are going to be a star. That's why I was hoping someone would point out what Marvin is going to be great at.

With Smoove you could see from day one that he had exceptional leaping and shot blocking ability and was a very good rebounder. You could see that with those gifts he could grow his game into something special.

With Chill he had a more polished game. Good rebounding, defense, good finisher, good ball handling. All these things you could witness by mid season of his rookie year.

So we're at the end of Marvin's rookie year and I want someone to reassure me. What are the indications that he'll be a great player. He has been consistent but here are the things that I think he's just average at so far: shooting, ball handling, rebounding, passing. I didn't mention defense because defense is just freakin' hard in the nba and its unfair to expect him to be good at it yet. And his ability to take guys off the dribble is much worse than I expected.

So what's the optimistic view. I want him to be a star.

[Diesel]

Marvin will be a really good set shooter.

On occasions he will be able to put the ball on the floor and drive without getting a foul.

Otherwise, he will be average or below at most things.

[chillzatl]

nobody here is trying to say that Marvin was the best fit for us. Well, maybe KB. But that doesn't change that fact that he's here. WHy hate on him becuase he wasn't what you wanted? That's the problem with you. Well, one of many. One being that this has been pointed out to you 100 times and you ignore it. You hate on him because of something that he had no control over. I guess he could have said "oh, the Hawks need a PG, not another forward. I'm just going to pull out of the draft". But that's not being realistic. You claim to be a mature man, then act like it. If you hate the pick, hate the pick. But don't hate the player that the pick was used on it, because it wasn't his fault.

There is a bright spot in picking him. He has the potential to be a game changing player. You won't ever see that until it happens, because you're blinded by your dislike for the guy. You can't seperate him from the pick that he didn't make.

On the flip side, the only downside to picking him was that he wasn't an immediate need. That downside is magnified because of the great season Chris Paul has had. Not because of anything Marvin has or has not done.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

The only debate is whether Josh Smith can be a PF and that has nothing to do with rooting for Marvin to develop.

---

See, this is where we disagree.

The only reason that people even breathe a word about this Smoove being a PF is because of Marvin.

You're right, it's not Marvin's fault. I don't look for Marvin to fail... I want Marvin to succeed.

I fault the pick. And the pick has many damaging reprecussions... Such as..

1. We're trying to move Smoove to a position that he doesn't play.

2. We're painted into a corner about this draft.

3. We will still have major holes.

Compounding my hate of the pick...

Is also the fact that I don't think Marvin was worthy of the pick position. That's still not me rooting against Marvin. That's me hating the hype Machine that created Marvin. If you go back into History.... Marvin wasn't the best player of his HS class. Marvin didn't look so good against quality competition in college. Most of MW's loudest proponents (KB) didn't even watch many UNC games and the ones that did are overly biased because he played for their favorite team (theshedera). I am a fan of the ACC. So I might rag on UA, Colorado, and UCLA.. But I watched enough ACC games to know that Marvin was not the next coming of James Worthy...

So to me, what elevated Marvin into the spotlight was the fact that he didn't play enough to be dissected by the media. The same as most Europlayers.

As far as waiting on development. I will say this. I have watched basketball a long time. I have said this often. Normally, if a player is going to be good in the future, he gives you something. You guys talk around Josh Smith.. but notice that in his rookie Year, Josh Smith gave us something. We knew that he would be a fierce shot blocker if nothing else. I think the only player that has ever gone against that rule was Chauncey Billups. Mr. Big Shot, came from out of nowhere to become Mr. Big Shot.

Am I saying that Marvin won't develop. No. I'm saying that I don't expect to look around and see him be KG... I just don't see the attitude nor do I see it in how he plays. You have to look at these guys you love to call...

KG, Kobe, Tmac... These guys are extremely competitive. They said of Kobe that he would LET his HS team get behind just so that he can see if he could bring them back to win the game. I've seen KG cry because he hates to lose. With Marvin.. I don't see it. It's like he's so uncaring about winning and losing. Sorta like Big Dog when he was here. Big Dog would make mistakes, shrug his shoulders and just go on.

[Traceman]

Quote:

---

As far as waiting on development. I will say this. I have watched basketball a long time. I have said this often. Normally, if a player is going to be good in the future, he gives you something.

---

So now because you "have watched basketball a long time" we are all supposed to accept your opinion that Marvin won't ever be any good? You mean like your opinions that we shouldn't trade for a young T Mac because he was "Vince Carter's shadow" and we shouldn't trade for a young Shawn Marion because he was the "Putback King?" Yeah, you really have an eye for seeing who is going to develop into a star player. Right!

[exodus]

Diesel is definitely a legend in his own mind.

[Diesel]

You don't have to accept my opinion.. Just be around. Time will surely settle the matter.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

The only reason that people even breathe a word about this Smoove being a PF is because of Marvin.

---

Again, I've told you this MANY times...many of us, including me, wanted Smoove to be PF LAST YEAR, well before the season was over and we knew who we'd pick

Stop believing that we only want him at pf because of marvin; We want him at pf because we think he'll help the team the most there

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

The only reason that people even breathe a word about this Smoove being a PF is because of Marvin.

---

Again, I've told you this MANY times...many of us, including me, wanted Smoove to be PF LAST YEAR, well before the season was over and we knew who we'd pick

Stop believing that we only want him at pf because of marvin; We want him at pf because we think he'll help the team the most there

---

As the master of old threads, Diesel, you should easily be able to confirm this. The Hawks ownership on 680 AM has also described Smith as our PF of the future. Whether it works out that way is debatable, but the debate is not just the product of having Marvin around as you have recently been stating.

[Diesel]

I think you are somewhat correct that BK (specifically) talks about the forward position as being one... However, I question BK's basketball IQ in that respect.

The PF and the Sf have 2 different jobs.

For instance, would you want a team with Two Karl Malone's when you could have a Karl Malone and a Dominique Wilkins...

or 2 Elton Brands when you could have had an Elton Brand and a Paul Pierce.

I just happen to believe that the positions are separated because they have meaning and specific essentials...

[AHF]

Quote:

---

As far as waiting on development. I will say this. I have watched basketball a long time. I have said this often. Normally, if a player is going to be good in the future, he gives you something. You guys talk around Josh Smith.. but notice that in his rookie Year, Josh Smith gave us something. We knew that he would be a fierce shot blocker if nothing else. I think the only player that has ever gone against that rule was Chauncey Billups. Mr. Big Shot, came from out of nowhere to become Mr. Big Shot.

---

Half that Pistons team is in that position.

Hamilton was OK but not great his rookie season. Billups and Wallace were disasters. All have become studs. Moreover, look at the Hawks team. Our best player didn't show enough his rookie season to give the Celtics faith in his future. They traded Joe Johnson for a couple of vets they didn't even plan on resigning for the next year. You don't trade someone who you think may be special to rent a couple of vet 3pt shooters.

There are a ton of examples of outstanding players who didn't show much their rookie years. I think you are way too hard on Marvin and you have been before he played a game in the league.

I understand your frustration with the pick but not so much why you think Marvin is going to be such a subpar player.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

I think you are somewhat correct that BK (specifically) talks about the forward position as being one... However, I question BK's basketball IQ in that respect.

The PF and the Sf have 2 different jobs.

For instance, would you want a team with Two Karl Malone's when you could have a Karl Malone and a Dominique Wilkins...

or 2 Elton Brands when you could have had an Elton Brand and a Paul Pierce.

I just happen to believe that the positions are separated because they have meaning and specific essentials...

---

I understand your argument here, but many people on this site have argued Josh should be a PF even before we had drafted Marvin. I don't think they all share BK's philosophy on forwards, either.

[chillzatl]

don't forget how many times we SHOULD (and diesel would) have traded for Stromile Swift. Because he was just been misused for every game of his career. Oddly enough, he was also a young #2 overall pick.