So Smoove is a PF???

[swolehawk2]

Actually, Smnoove posted twice and hit two running hooks in the lane....a shot he should take more.

[Lascar78]

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He's talking about the nine 3's he jacked up tonight. And to think, the kid was 9 - 17 FG. But of his 8 misses, 6 of them were from 3 point land.

To me, that ish is unacceptable for Smoove. I don't care if he does make a few, he should NEVER have the green light to take a 3 whenever he wants.

Pump fake, and take the damn ball to the hole and see if you can draw a foul. Either that, or go by them and dunk on somebody.

He is not Dirk. Ish . . he isn't even Rasheed. So he should quit acting like it.

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THANK YOU!!!!

[Lascar78]

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Obviously PF since Al was out. And he had 6 blocks in the first half. And he didnt have much problem scoring while being guarded by their pf.

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Actually he played the 5 for a while too, and did alright

[Wretch]

I thought Smoove looked more like a PF in his HS tapes and as I watched him early last season. Though, I did keep myself from fully indulging in the idea. Being that his game was so raw and that he was simply so much bigger than everyone else in HS. I wondered if that's what I was seeing.

As Smoove has been growing this year, he seems to be more of a natural SF. Moreover, he seems to be comfortable pursuing that.

- he's worked on his long range shot (which looks GOOD)

- his midrange game is solid

- he's attacking the basket and

- he's making NICE passes off the drive

Some guys, you can mold them into different things, but I am a believer in allowing a player to be what he wants to be. So, I don't think we should be trying to "make" or pursuade Smoove into being a PF or anything else. Let his game speak for where he needs to be.

Morevoer, when I think Power Forward... I envision a heavy, bruising, contact driven, low post scoring, back-to-the-basket player. The few posts above me really echo my sentiments on the matter. True bigmen are such a rarity these days that you can make a case either way, but ultimately I believe that Josh is better served at the position that he is most comfortable with and is most advantageous to his skillset.

Right now, he looks like a very promising SF with all around game.

...

On a side note, I am on nobody's side in the pro/anti-Marvin war. However, I do believe that our drafting of him has much to do the campaign to move Smoove to the 4. Moreso than Josh's actual capacity for the position. We like the idea of drafting a superstar and molding a #2 pick into a Hawk...but we realize that perhaps we've duplicated a position unless either he or Smoove moves to the PF. We'll see how that turns out in time. Meanwhile, I become less and less fascinated with BK's "vision."

[Lascar78]

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He's talking about the nine 3's he jacked up tonight. And to think, the kid was 9 - 17 FG. But of his 8 misses, 6 of them were from 3 point land.

To me, that ish is unacceptable for Smoove. I don't care if he does make a few, he should NEVER have the green light to take a 3 whenever he wants.

Pump fake, and take the damn ball to the hole and see if you can draw a foul. Either that, or go by them and dunk on somebody.

He is not Dirk. Ish . . he isn't even Rasheed. So he should quit acting like it.

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Not to mention, it's not even like he's shooting them well. People act like he is, because this 3 pt shooting came out of nowhere, but he isn't. If he misses his next attempt, he falls below the 30% mark. That's bad. He's currently 192nd in the league in that department, right ahead of Jermaine O'Neal at 193.

I wish he would focus on driving to the hoop, post moves, and faking jumpers to go by his man.

[exodus]

Actually I would say he is shooting them well when he takes good shots. However he certainly needs to learn better shot selection.

And he has been very good at making them in the clutch.

And last night he did makes some nice moves to the basket and finished.

Everyone seems to expect his game to be completely developed overnight. It doesn't work like that. Smoove has talent and desire, and given those two things I expect his progress to continue.

REally he is ahead of the game. How many high schoolers have come in and gotten as much experience their 1st two seasons as Smoove? Not many.

[LastDon]

I'm just talking about the point that he was hoisting 3's like he was Antoine Walker. I think he could have scored 30 if he would have stuck to shooting medium range jumpers and going to the hole strong.

[Lascar78]

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And last night he did makes some nice moves to the basket and finished.

Everyone seems to expect his game to be completely developed overnight. It doesn't work like that. Smoove has talent and desire, and given those two things I expect his progress to continue.

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I don't expect him to get great overnight. My point is you only get better by repetition and practicing against NBA players at game speed. Our entire team shoots jumpers way too much. That's why on average we shoot way less free throws than our opponents, and we tend to fold in the clutch when the other team takes it to the rack and we shoot long jumpers. And if there's anyone on this team with the body to take it to the rack and get dunks, layups, and/or get to the free throw line, it's Josh Smith.

And it pisses me off twice as much because he does relatively well when he does take it to the rack, like he did a couple of times last night. I guarantee that if for every 3 he took he would have driven straight to the hole instead, he would have gotten a lot more points on those posessions on average. And he would get the other team in foul trouble.

It's different in a clutch situation when we need a 3, it comes to him and he's open. I'm fine with those. But unless we really need a 3, he should be taking it to the hole. Develop that skill rather than trying to develop your 3 pt shooting.

[Packfill]

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And last night he did makes some nice moves to the basket and finished.

Everyone seems to expect his game to be completely developed overnight. It doesn't work like that. Smoove has talent and desire, and given those two things I expect his progress to continue.

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I don't expect him to get great overnight. My point is you only get better by repetition and practicing against NBA players at game speed. Our entire team shoots jumpers way too much. That's why on average we shoot way less free throws than our opponents, and we tend to fold in the clutch when the other team takes it to the rack and we shoot long jumpers. And if there's anyone on this team with the body to take it to the rack and get dunks, layups, and/or get to the free throw line, it's Josh Smith.

And it pisses me off twice as much because he does relatively well when he does take it to the rack, like he did a couple of times last night. I guarantee that if for every 3 he took he would have driven straight to the hole instead, he would have gotten a lot more points on those posessions on average. And he would get the other team in foul trouble.

It's different in a clutch situation when we need a 3, it comes to him and he's open. I'm fine with those. But unless we really need a 3, he should be taking it to the hole. Develop that skill rather than trying to develop your 3 pt shooting.

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Agreed. The team as a whole is way to reliant on jump shots. No one seems to consistently want to take it into the lane.

[exodus]

you decided to criticize the guy who had the best game on the team because you didn't like the mannner in which he scored, rather than criticizing any one of the other players who played poorly.

That makes sense.....NOT. Smith is 20 and has been progressing at a very fast pace.

HE ISN'T GOING TO BECOME A COMPLETE PLAYER OVERNIGHT. GET A GRIP.

[LastDon]

[swolehawk2]

Well until he proves to the league he can shoot consistantly he is not going to get all the way to the basket...players will be waiting on him to take charges.

He is growing and the next thing and the hardest thing for most players is the in between game.

The pump fake drive and pull up either for a short jumper or floater....when he gets that, Smoove will be almost unstoppable.

He is improving...this summer will probably the most important off season of his career.

Smoove is on his way.

[LastDon]

that's why I wanted Cris Paul instead of Marvin Williams. I just feel like that if Smooth focuses on shooting too many 3s that it will take away from his developing into the star I think he can be.

[Diesel]

I agree. AND, I believe that the game of basketball is cyclical in it's trends. Therefore I believe there will be a dominate class of PFs that will come back and right the game. I felt that Amare Stoudamire was the start of the resurgence.

I think that you also have to take note of guys like Tim Duncan and Elton Brand (even though he's undersized).. these guys picked up where Malone left off. Just like 6'9 PGs, this love of the pickup game is just a cycle too. It will change once we find out that the more fundamental European players who do not play one once of Physical basketball can easily defeat street ball team with little fundamentals.

[exodus]

Smith had a strong game and you come in here saying he made you sick.

Since you have absolutely no clue what is going on with Smith allow me to explain it to you.

He obviously worked hard on his 3 pt shot and when Woody finally gave him the green light Smith had some success and fell in love with it. However he will soon realize that it is a hard shot and he can't make them as consistently in games as he can in practice.

He needs to learn to take good shots, meaning when he has time to set himself properly. However he isn't going to learn that right away. Sometimes the only way it will register is for him to learn it himself.

he knows that he won't be able to drive consistently until players respect his outside shot. Smith doesn't have a blazing first step like Wade and his ball handling isn't the best, so he can't beat people off the dribble at will. Therefore he needs to develop a consistent outside shot IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THE BASKET. He said as much himself, more than once.

[Vol4ever]

I agree the Euro don't like physical ball and theat has also changed the league as you said.

[CBAreject]

I KNEW YOU WOULD COMPLETELY IGNORE THE POINT I MADE IN MY POST. I KNEW YOU WOULD ASSUME THAT I WAS A SUPPORTER OF THE SMOOVE IS A 4 MOVEMENT. I KNEW YOU WOULD ARGUE WITH A STRAWMAN. YOU ARE SO SADLY PREDICTABLE.

I didn't say anything about WHAT I THOUGHT Smoove could be. For all you know, I agree with you! I didn't state an opinion, because that wasn't my objective.

MY ONLY POINT IS THAT 1 GAME DOESN'T SWAY THE ARGUMENT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER...1 game is not a good sample set. That goes for the "Smoove is a 4" people, too. That goes for all the knee-jerk reactions on this board.

You completely ignored my point and had the argument you wanted to have. Now to quote your idiocy.

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You think that it's in his nature to play PF??

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I didn't say one way or the other. That wasn't the point of my post.

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Then you want to attack me for just stating the obvious and I have very little to say about it.

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I don't care if you think Smoove is a PF or a PG. Just make a case based on more than 1 game worth of data. Don't go posting crap like "Tonight's game should silence all discussion." That's ridiculous. You would be pretty fickle if 1 game completely changed your opinion on a player.

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That's your own conscious telling you to defend your stupidity.

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LOL! Do you mean "subconscious", Diesel? Do you mean "conscience"? Surely you don't mean "conscious". Don't proclaim my stupidity in a sentence with a conceptual or grammatical error that belies your own.

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You dumbasses didn't understand. I wasn't attacking Smoove.

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I may be a dumbass, but your capacities are far worse than mine. I do understand the claim you are making, and I don't think it's a personal attack on Smoove. I just think it's silly to say "Alright! This one game should end all discussion."

Trouble is, people like you don't really understand probability and statistics. That's why you missed the point of my post. Ah well. I guess thinking that you're brilliant is nearly as good as truly being so.

[Diesel]

The problem...

You are wishy washy. You started the post of can we have Marvin and Smoove coexisting and you state that it can happen. Then you attack Don because he sees Smoove as a Sf. Then when I suggest that last nights game was just another testimony to Smoove being a 3, you attack my post. Seeing that you never, ever make comment against anybody who is saying that Smoove is a 4... and you attack those of us who believes he is a 3... and you don't have the stones to stand on one side of the fence or the other... I made the choice for you.

So while you are knowing it... Know this..... You get no credit for just standing on the fence.

Here's that same old song and dance from stoneless CBAreject.

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Look, Cletus. I didn't say that Smoove was a good PF now. I said I think there's a good possibility he could defend the position in a couple of years. I also said that the fact that he gets outmuscled by a hulking PF now doesn't mean that he won't ever be able to adequately defend the position.

You leave that part out of your whiney soap-box. I NEVER SAID SMITH IS A GOOD PF RIGHT NOW. I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BE. I ONLY SAID THAT HE MIGHT BE IN THE FUTURE.

To say that Smith will never play PF based on 1 stinking game in which he got outplayed by a hulk at the position is QUITE AUDACIOUS. I think it's much more reasonable to say that we can't say with certainty whether Smoove will play PF or not. We must admit he has potential, but we have some evidence that he is currently a bad defender.

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[CBAreject]

BTW, you have still failed to answer the points I made in my post. Most likely, you find those points either too difficult to comprehend or too difficult to answer, so you decided to have your own argument.

Oh well....I will humor you, because I can have your argument and still carve you up. Here we go.

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The problem...

You are wishy washy.

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No, I am very consistent in my neutral position on Smoove. I have made points for and against him, and I have stated that he is not a good PF right now. I have also stated that I am not sure that he will ever be a PF, but I have said that he has potential to become one. I have cautioned against banking on that, however. TO SUM UP: Smoove is currently a 3 who has potential to be a 4 (that I would RATHER NOT BANK ON). To be wishy-washy would be to say that he is a 4, then say "See, this one game shows he is a 3!" the next day.

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You started the post of can we have Marvin and Smoove coexisting and you state that it can happen.

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That post was a question to the forum. In that post, I made the position that "I'm torn. I think Smoove is a great player at the 3..."

I also said "I think he can play PF in the future, but I believe he'll always be a little slight at that position."

I concluded with "I guess my conclusion is that we need an all-star level big," and I said "I love Smoove's ranginess too much, so I would lean towards trading Marvin in the right deal."

1) I never said that "it can happen" (that is MW at 3 and JS at 4). I said I thought it was possible for JS to play 4, but I was skeptical (...always a little slight...).

2) I implied that I didn't see JS as an "all-star level big"

3) I clearly stated that if we had to trade one, I would trade MW, especially in the case we could get a 20/10 PF.

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Then you attack Don because he sees Smoove as a Sf.

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Wrong again, D. What a surprise! I did attack Don, but only because he is as "knee-jerk" as you are. SAVE SOME FACE BY TELLING ME WHAT THE COMMON THREAD IS BETWEEN HIS CLAIM AND YOURS. You can't do it, so I'll spare you. See, Don used 1 game to make his case. I said that the fact he got outplayed by Dwight Howard was not a conclusive indicator of his potential to play PF in 2-3 years.

"I am not sure whether he can be a strong PF, but I definitely think it's a possibility."

Again, I stated that I wasn't sure if he could be a strong PF. It's POSSIBLE. I am not defending Smoove here; I'm defending rational thought. I'm attacking EXTREMISM. Don't draw absolute conclusions on 1 game.

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you don't have the stones to stand on one side of the fence or the other...

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STONES? Yeah, it takes real bravery to make the claim on an internet forum that some NBA player projects as a certain position.

I would much rather take a neutral line than draw conclusions based on insufficient data. THANK GOD that most of my colleagues in med school (like KB21) want to see statistically significant data before drawing a conclusion on patient care. How horrendous would it be if they were all puffed-up, blustering, knee-jerk reactionaries like you.

All I have been is mature enough to say that we don't know enough to say definitively. Oh, but that means I don't have STONES.

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I made the choice for you

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I know you did. That's what I said. You decided what argument you to have, so you picked a side for me, and you had that argument with yourself.

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So while you are knowing it... Know this..... You get no credit for just standing on the fence.

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Vomit. What a pompous windbag. I bet you thought that was profound. And "credit"? When did I ask for credit? What do you think this is? It's a silly basketball forum. You are the one who seems to want credit all the time, with your "See, I told you so!" posts.

[exodus]

I have punk'd Diesel so many times that he finally gave up and filtered me. Maybe one day, if you work at it, you too can achieve filtered status.