Smoove/Marvin combo: The key issue

[exodus]

So did Marvin shoot turnaround jumpers in college? I have never seen him attempt one.

As you know I have defended Marvin a lot on here but if the chance arose to trade him for Aldridge I would do it. While I am hopeful about Marvin i can't say I haven't been disappointed with him.

[DJlaysitup]

I didn't get to watch that much of Marvin at UNC (outside of highlight plays on espn)...did he play more of a 3 or 4 role there?

[thesheedera]

I'm only addressing your comment to his contactivitis this season. No, he had no polished offensive moves of any kind on the offensive end of the floor. He was always in the post, scoring the same way Antawn Jamison used to, the same way Tyrus Thomas did this season. All effort, nice touch, great instincts, imposing his athletic advantages on the less gifted.

This season is the first time in his life that he can't just succeed with his raw skill. He has confidence in his jumper, and either he's personally resorted to sticking with that or he's being instructed by the staff to stick to just that. Either way I don't like it, but I'm trying to be patient.

[thesheedera]

DJ - exclusively the 4, sometimes the 5, kind of.

Roy played two post players at a time last season and ran the secondary break nearly all the time. The first big to get down the court heads right to the post. The second lags behind, gets the ball at the top of the key, and that's his only opportunity on the wing. He can drill the open shot (Marvin got more comfortable with that halfway through the season), or take the ball off the dribble, or pass. He then heads into the post, and the two big men screen for each other and pretty much stay down there.

Not a technical explanation, but hopefully you get the idea.

The Heels lacked interior players that year, and Roy went with a 3 man rotation (Marvin, May, Jawad Williams) who were interchangeable. He said in press conferences that Marvin was asked to fill that role, and the following season he would begin to expand his game to the perimeter, where Roy expected Marvin to excel at the next level.

[tmac13]

Its a PR move to turn an already bad team into a 13 game winner?..What did giving Nazr away have to do with bringing JJ here?..

Anyway it doesn't matter, like I have stated before, I think BK is a poor GM and you think he is a savior..Only time will tell.

[exodus]

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I'm only addressing your comment to his contactivitis this season

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When I said he was allergic to contact that was probably a poor word choice, since he seems to look for contact so often. He just can't take it very well.

When he takes it to the basket or has the ball in the post I just wish he would go straight up with it rather than always leaning in. He isn't strong enough to lean in and finish but he keeps doing it.

[thesheedera]

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When I said he was allergic to contact that was probably a poor word choice, since he seems to look for contact so often. He just can't take it very well.

When he takes it to the basket or has the ball in the post I just wish he would go straight up with it rather than always leaning in. He isn't strong enough to lean in and finish but he keeps doing it.

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My problem is that he isn't aggressive on the boards. That's the PF's #1 job in my personal opinion, and its really everyone's job other than the guards. I think Marvin's intimidated by the size of the NBA, and he doesn't crash like he used to.

When he gets the ball, instinct takes over and he just reacts, he doesn't think about the contact, he just goes straight to the rim. That's the same guy I watched last season.

When someone shoots, he pauses, and he doesn't go straight to the ball with reckless abandon. That is the difference from him as a college freshman and him as an NBA rookie, in my opinion. He could be averaging 8 or 9 boards a game if he played with that kind of aggression. He's doing half that this season.

[exodus]

I am not worried about his rebounding. He has shown me enough that i believe he will be one of the best rebounding small forwards in the game.

[Lascar78]

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Its a PR move to turn an already bad team into a 13 game winner?..What did giving Nazr away have to do with bringing JJ here?..

Anyway it doesn't matter, like I have stated before, I think BK is a poor GM and you think he is a savior..Only time will tell.

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It is a PR move to say we're not going to accept overpaid underachieving mediocrity, we're firing everyone and starting from scratch with a whole new regime in place. That's how he signed a guy like JJ. You think that with the accepted mediocrity this franchise was, we could have signed a guy like that? When have we EVER signed a guy of that caliber? Our franchise was a laughing stock, and now it's a team with a horrible record but a bright future. Free Agents notice that

Also I don't think BK is a savior, I'm no KB. Don't make stuff up. I think he's done a pretty decent job of rebuilding and drafting talent, and that this is the offseason when he can prove whether or not he can put a team together. To expect him to have a cohesive team in a year and a half was unreasonable. I think that the jury's still out on him, and that right now he's a little above average

[tmac13]

Give me a break, JJ signed here for 2 reasons. He didn't want to a be a 3rd or 4th option like he was at Phoenix, he wanted to be the man, and we gave him a max deal with 20 million the 1st season..JJ left a very good team to come to a 13 win team..I don't think the Hawks getting out of the "cycle of mediocrity" had anything to do with it, was simply shots and cash.

BTW, BK is entering his 4th summer as GM..Thats a little longer than a year and a half...The dismantling started late in his 1st season..So, no matter when you start the clock on rebulding is been more than a year and a half..

[DJlaysitup]

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...I don't think the Hawks getting out of the "cycle of mediocrity" had anything to do with it, was simply shots and cash...

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Yeah, if we broke out of that cycle...I'm afraid we broke out in the wrong direction.

It'd gonna take some work just to get back there (record-wise).

[Lascar78]

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he wanted to be the man, and we gave him a max deal with 20 million the 1st season..

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Neither of which would have been possible without the complete rebuild

[Guest Walter]

Smoove being better than an average 4 much less WANTING to play the 4, Marvin being able to play the 4, getting a dominant 2-way center to pair with our two Sfs (note: Pryz is defensively very good and big enough, BUT where's the post game between Pryz and Smoove? In the playoffs we're COOKED!). Seriously people, why not just assume we're getting the 1st pick in next year's draft?!? That's about as likely as the above coming to be. YOU CANNOT BUILD A TEAM UPON THIS NONSENSE! It's playoff suicide to be undersized at two adjacent positions O-R to not have a post game. With JS at Pf we are not only making him AT BEST an average player, we are d@mning our team to the far greater possibility of being undersized at adjacent positions AND not having a sufficient post game. We MUST consider if not exercise other options, especially in the power forward draft!

W

[exodus]

Nobody is advocating getting an undersized center, so you need to drop the adjacent positions nonsense.

[Guest Walter]

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Nobody is advocating getting an undersized center, so you need to drop the adjacent positions nonsense.

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If you are not advocating an undersized center. How are you advocating a well-sized center, particularly a 2-way dominant one that can defend the post (where JS can't) and can operate offensively in the post (where JS can't)? About this I am serious. I would like to here a plan to acquire such a center to play along our 2-Sf future roster.

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This is just d@mning JS to AT BEST mediocrity, he doesn't defend the post well or operate well in the post offensively. He isn't well-sized for the position. He doesn't show a desire to play there. I've got an idea let's MAKE him play where and how he doesn't want. Lousy plan even if one could dream up Greg Oden for us.

W

[exodus]

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This is just

d@mning

JS to AT BEST mediocrity, he doesn't defend the post well or operate well in the post offensively. He isn't well-sized for the position. He doesn't show a desire to play there.

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Wrong. How many layups have you seen Smith give up to opposing 4s? Not many.

His problem defensively at the 4 has been allowing guys to get post position too deep initially. He thinks he can rely on his shotblocking to stop guys but that isn't always the case. It is just inexperience, relying too much on his athleticism.

And I would much rather guys trying to make turnaround jumpers or jump hooks over him as opposed to getting to the basket for layups.

As far as not having a post game, he didn't make his second 3 of the season until March. I think he and Marvin can learn a post game, but I also think a post game isn't as important as it used to be. The new rules regarding zones and the hand check favor perimeter players over post players.

As far as Josh wanting to play the 4 that is a legit concern. There is no way to know for sure if he wants to play there. if he doesn't but is forced to play there to accomodate marvin would certainly be a problem.

And there are 4s that are too big for him, so the Hawks definitely need to find a center who can guard guys like JO and Howard. I think Prz would be perfect for that.

[Guest Walter]

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This is just

d@mning

JS to AT BEST mediocrity, he doesn't defend the post well or operate well in the post offensively. He isn't well-sized for the position. He doesn't show a desire to play there.

[exodus]

First of all i have no delusions about the Hawks ever getting a 2-way dominant center, so you can drop that. I think they are fine with a center with size who can play D.

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I don't anticipate Josh Smith being a pure 3-pt shooter either, but everything about his play this year trends perimeter.

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Can't argue there, at least offensively.

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As far as he and Marvin learning one, I haven't seen post game by commitee work much and MW doesn't have the size, height, desire, or background to reflect he will either

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he definitely has the height. His standing reach is only 2.5" less than Bogut. He will be taller than most of the players he faces at the 3. And he is already 230 and it is a safe bet he will get bigger and stronger.

However he hasn't shown any post moves other than trying to dive into someone and draw a foul, which is certainly discouraging.

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The "new rules" arguments that come around every year are watered down nosense.

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That is just retarded. Why has AI put up career numbers the last two years? When was the last time 3 perimeter players averaged over 30 ppg? how is Wade leading the league in pts in the paint and how is Tony Parker right behind him, shooting 54% from the field?

You are completely in denial here.

[Guest Walter]

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The "new rules" arguments that come around every year are watered down nosense.

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That is just retarded. Why has AI put up career numbers the last two years? When was the last time 3 perimeter players averaged over 30 ppg? how is Wade leading the league in pts in the paint and how is Tony Parker right behind him, shooting 54% from the field?

You are completely in denial here.

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[exodus]

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I just don't see how this is a case for JS as a Pf? Pg maybe, if you recall he played Sg for us last year for awhile, but Pf? No.

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You said yourself that Smith has developed perimeter skills. Do you think big pfs will be able to guard Smith outside?

I think Smith will be able to get any shot he wants against big power forwards. Since they can't hand check him he can drive right past them.