Marvin And Smoove CAN Co-Exist

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

---

I understand you play on Ben Wallace being an undersized Center...

BUT...

Rasheed Wallace is what 6'11"?

Tayshun Prince is what.. The longest player in basketball?

Then they have reserves like 6'9 245 McDyess who plays PF and is a PF.

6-11 Dale Davis.

6-11 Kevin Cato

---

Rasheed is no bigger than Saer Sene or Andrea Bargnani who are both 7 feet tall. If we got one of those two guys, alongside Smoove/Marvin our front court would be the same size as the Pistons.

Off the bench? Zaza is 6'11 as well.

Im telling you size won't be a problem if we land a big man in this draft.

Even if we land Tyrus Thomas or Shelden Williams, is Boris Diaw bigger than those guys?

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

You are right. Marvin probably has the best jumper on this team so why would he need to work on his outside shot. The only thing that he has to really work on is his post moves. I hate it when you guys try to demean him.

---

1. how am i demeaning Marvin?

2. there's a difference between being able to shoot and being able to create your own shot.

if Marvin can make defenders respect that initial step to the basket he'll be able to create for himself in open space. once again you Anti/Pro Marvin posters are losing sight of the original subject, which is how can/will Marvin and Smoove coexist? they're just ideas guys.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Marvin timed faster in the 3 quarter court sprint than Chris Paul did. Why does he need a speed coach?

Some of you just keep coming up with some of the most ridiculous crap in an attempt to demean Marvin Williams. I can't wait to see some of your reactions when Marvin becomes the Superstar everyone in the NBA knows he will be.

---

does my memory serve me correctly or did the Hawks not have to stop their predraft workout with Marvin because he got winded multiple times?

also timed speed doesn't always translate into game speed.

in the games i watched this year it looked like Marvin could use a little help with his initial explosion if he is to become an elite SF in the league. the good thing is he's got 15 years left in the league to work on it.

[Diesel]

Marvin was out of shape for the Milwaukee work out too.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

The only issue about our size is in the rebounding department. But as Dennis Rodman and Eddy Curry demonstrate, rebounding is about position and effort, not size..ergo Rodman is a good rebounder, Curry is not.

---

Actually, it's about the defense and overall interior skills department. While the Pistons have the best interior defense tandem in the NBA and have a great to post player in Rasheed Wallace, we don't and wouldn't be close and in addition would be 2" shorter and 36 lbs lighter than this year's winning teams. Thems the facts. Not just about rebounding, it's about all interior skills AND being undersized.

W

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

While the Pistons have the best interior defense tandem in the NBA and have a great to post player in Rasheed Wallace, we don't and wouldn't be close and in addition would be 2" shorter and 36 lbs lighter than this year's winning teams. Thems the facts.

---

Pistons:

SF: Prince - 6'9" - 215 lbs

PF: Sheed - 6'11" - 230 lbs

C: Ben W - 6'9" - 240 lbs

TOTAL: 20'5" - 685 lbs

Hawks:

SF: Marvin - 6'9" - 230 lbs

PF: Smoove - 6'9" - 225 lbs

C: Zaza - 6'11" - 265 lbs

TOTAL: 20'5" - 710

That's equal height, 25 extra lbs for us, even with official listed weights even though in reality we know Smoove is around 240. Even if you just look at PF-C, we're at equal height, 20 extra lbs for us.

Them's the facts

[Diesel]

Could you write down the skills sets and skill levels next??

Defensively, how do we rank...

Is it like having a tonka toy sitting next to a tank or what?

I would say, a row boat vs. a Battle ship...

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

While the Pistons have the best interior defense tandem in the NBA and have a great to post player in Rasheed Wallace, we don't and wouldn't be close and in addition would be 2" shorter and 36 lbs lighter than this year's winning teams. Thems the facts.

---

Pistons:

SF: Prince - 6'9" - 215 lbs

PF: Sheed - 6'11" - 230 lbs

C: Ben W - 6'9" - 240 lbs

TOTAL: 20'5" - 685 lbs

Hawks:

SF: Marvin - 6'9" - 230 lbs

PF: Smoove - 6'9" - 225 lbs

C: Zaza - 6'11" - 265 lbs

TOTAL: 20'5" - 710

That's equal height, 25 extra lbs for us, even with official listed weights even though in reality we know Smoove is around 240. Even if you just look at PF-C, we're at equal height, 20 extra lbs for us.

Them's the facts

---

once again the stats only tell half the story....

if Ben and Smoove are the same height Ben has to be 30 lbs heavier than Josh.

i don't believe any of those measurements anyhow. didn't marvin measure out to 6'7 7/8" at the draft combine?

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

Could you write down the skills sets and skill levels next??

---

No. I have to read thread after thread after thread about how none of this will work because of 2 "undersized" players. That's your continual argument with your ladyfriend walter about how Marvin-Smith can't work because we'll be undersized. Fact is we're bigger than the pistons already.

Quote:

---

if Ben and Smoove are the same height Ben has to be 30 lbs heavier than Josh.

---

I doubt it. Just because his biceps are monstruous doesn't mean he weighs more. I bet their real measurements are

6'8" 240 for Smith, 6'7" 240 for Wallace. Smith is pretty thick too.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Could you write down the skills sets and skill levels next??

---

No. I have to read thread after thread after thread about how none of this will work because of 2 "undersized" players. That's your continual argument with your ladyfriend walter about how Marvin-Smith can't work because we'll be undersized. Fact is we're bigger than the pistons already.

Quote:

---

if Ben and Smoove are the same height Ben has to be 30 lbs heavier than Josh.

---

I doubt it. Just because his biceps are monstruous doesn't mean he weighs more. I bet their real measurements are

6'8" 240 for Smith, 6'7" 240 for Wallace. Smith is pretty thick too.

---

i'd buy that. it is truly amazing what Wallace does considering his size, or lack thereof. you know if Billy wants to create his team in that image he needs to go ahead and make Ben that offer.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Fact is we're bigger than the pistons already.

---

No. The fact is you hedge some of the numbers if you want to talk factuals. Marvin is 6'7 3/4.. not 6'9"... that's the fact. The fact is that the pistons have 2 other 6'11" players and one 6'9 245 lber that play off their bench...

What do we have???

One more 6'9 player.. and a 7 footer who has logged maybe 140 minutes all season...

That's the fact.

But the fact that you don't want to face is this..

The Pistons possess All the skillsets that are neccessary to play the position.

We possess only two Skillset between our 1 and 5. ONLY Two..

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Fact is we're bigger than the pistons already.

---

No. The fact is you hedge some of the numbers if you want to talk factuals. Marvin is 6'7 3/4.. not 6'9"... that's the fact. The fact is that the pistons have 2 other 6'11" players and one 6'9 245 lber that play off their bench...

What do we have???

One more 6'9 player.. and a 7 footer who has logged maybe 140 minutes all season...

That's the fact.

But the fact that you don't want to face is this..

The Pistons possess All the skillsets that are neccessary to play the position.

We possess only two Skillset between our 1 and 5. ONLY Two..

---

so Diesel, let me get this straight. are you saying that the stats standing alone don't tell all of the story?

[Lascar78]

I took the NBA official stats

Feel free to re-do it with everyone's workout heights and weights if you want but don't compare our workout heights to their NBA heights.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

---

You guys are arguing over something that's not even close to the root of our problem. With Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, and Josh Smith we have a very promising young corp. Not to mention Salim, Childress, and Zaza that are all young. But those three are bench material.

The problem is we need a big man. Is Josh Smith or Marvin Williams the reason we gave up so many points in the paint? No it's because although Zaza is very productive for what we got for him, he shouldn't be a starter. He isn't good enough on offense to be a defensive liability like Dirk Nowitzki and he isn't good enough on defense to make up for lack of great offensive production.

We get a big man in this draft and there is only one more weakness on this team at PG and who knows, Salim may be the next converted PG.

Big man or bust!

---

It really is a shame that such a great and positive post turns into another Marvin bashing thread. Good work on your part BusBoy.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Fact is we're bigger than the pistons already.

---

No. The fact is you hedge some of the numbers if you want to talk factuals. Marvin is 6'7 3/4.. not 6'9"... that's the fact. The fact is that the pistons have 2 other 6'11" players and one 6'9 245 lber that play off their bench...

What do we have???

One more 6'9 player.. and a 7 footer who has logged maybe 140 minutes all season...

That's the fact.

But the fact that you don't want to face is this..

The Pistons possess All the skillsets that are neccessary to play the position.

We possess only two Skillset between our 1 and 5. ONLY Two..

---

The fact that the pistons have 6'11 bench players doesn't support your argument that Smoove and Marvin can't work. It only demonstrates that the Pistons have a better team and that we need more depth at the center and PF positions. Which is what we should address in FA and the draft.

[Diesel]

Of course they don't.

However, I'm not suggesting that someone is ignorant for using them??

I think when considering players Teke...

You have to use everything.. NOT JUST PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT SUITES YOUR POSITION AT THE TIME...

Moreover, You don't do something as one-sided as say...

"Smoove started 57 games, Marvin Started 7"..

But when somebody brings up the fact that they player nearly the same amount of mpg... go into a tissy saying:

" Only ignorant people use stats"..

[gsuteke]

the games started illustrates each individual's importance or role if you will in the overall picture.

and i agree, people one this board all too often manipulate statistics and use them to oversimplify arguements. especially on the Marvin/Smoove fronts.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

Marvin timed faster in the 3 quarter court sprint than Chris Paul did. Why does he need a speed coach?

Some of you just keep coming up with some of the most ridiculous crap in an attempt to demean Marvin Williams. I can't wait to see some of your reactions when Marvin becomes the Superstar everyone in the NBA knows he will be.

---

Everyone will be ecstatic if Marvin becomes a superstar, who are you kidding. He has a long way to go, which is appropriate given his age.

Realistically he should be on a Chris Bosh plan - get experience your first year, step up as a primary player in year two and dominate in year three.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Marvin timed faster in the 3 quarter court sprint than Chris Paul did. Why does he need a speed coach?

Some of you just keep coming up with some of the most ridiculous crap in an attempt to demean Marvin Williams. I can't wait to see some of your reactions when Marvin becomes the Superstar everyone in the NBA knows he will be.

---

Everyone will be ecstatic if Marvin becomes a superstar, who are you kidding. He has a long way to go, which is appropriate given his age.

Realistically he should be on a Chris Bosh plan - get experience your first year, step up as a primary player in year two and dominate in year three.

---

you know that kind of neutral talk is truly "thinking outside of the box" on this board.