I'M Comfortable with Our Point Guard Situation

[exodus]

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You like to bring up that point, but the point is that Salim was never brought into the game to pass the ball. His role was to shoot...shoot...shoot.

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Which is why he shouldn't have had many turnovers. Duh.

[Johnnybravo4]

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You like to bring up that point, but the point is that Salim was never brought into the game to pass the ball. His role was to shoot...shoot...shoot.

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Which is why he shouldn't have had many turnovers. Duh.

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What? I thought the point was that he had more turnovers than assists. It would be different if you told me that his TO were more than the avg for guards who play his amount of minutes. I am just trying to explain why he didn't have more assists.

[Diesel]

Lue,JJ, Smoove, Shelden, Zaza is a lineup that is intriguing if we don't do much this offseason.

To me, Lue is more patient than Salim. Definitely a better ball handler than Salim. Definitely won't shoot us out of the game.

I make no bones about it.. I would trade Salim for Steve Blake in a heartbeat.

[DJlaysitup]

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...I make no bones about it.. I would trade Salim for Steve Blake in a heartbeat.

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If Salim has a future in the league as a starter, I think it will be elsewhere.

[exodus]

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I thought the point was that he had more turnovers than assists.

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Maybe you should read the thread over again. We have been talking about Salim's ball handling problems and his turnover frequency.

Do you remember us talking about why Al and Chill brought the ball up the court when JJ was out or have you forgotten that already?

Ill give you a challenge. Find one other shooting guard in the league that played at least 15 minutes per game that had more turnovers than assists.

[Johnnybravo4]

And I was trying to explain why that is possible. While other guards may have a green light to shoot but mainly do it within the flow of the offense, Salim is just a gunner. He didn't have more assists because he wasn't supposed to be a distributor. To me it seems that your beef isn't that he had 200 turnovers (Made up number) but that he merely didn't have 201 assists to go with those 200 turnovers.

What I want to know is whether or not 200 turnovers is higher, lower, or avg for guards who play his amount of minutes.

[exodus]

Come on you can't be this slow. Let me simplify;

Since Salim was asked to shoot and not distribute it makes sense that his turnovers SHOULD HAVE BEEN RARE. After all it is tough to turn it over on a catch and shoot possession.

Most point guards are expected to drive and create for others and that is where many of their turnovers occur. Salim wasn't asked to do this, therefore his turnovers should have been much lower.

[Iman]

I think Salim and Lue are redundant. Both are small guards that shoot well but dont play defense. Both are streaky offensively also. Salim is careless with the ball whereas Lue takes good care but really doesnt initiate much offense. I'd trade either player for a more traditional point, preferably Lue. I'd like to keep Salim for his instant offense off the bench. We need a better all around starting guard to play with JJ.

[Lascar78]

that's true, but in all fairness JB has a point that in that case what matters isn't his A/TO ratio, but rather his TO per 48min for instance. If he's asked to shoot and shoot only, I would expect low turnovers and low assists.

If his TO per 48 is high despite being only asked to shoot, that's bad.

[Johnnybravo4]

You still aren't making sense. When Salim was in the game he was the primary ball handler. He wasn't running off of screens like Reggie or Rip. He mostly turned the ball over trying to make errant entry passes. The fact that he had more turnovers than assists may be more of a commentary on his passing skills than his handling skills. You aren't going to tell me that he fumbled the ball 200 times this season...he'd be on sport center every night.

[Johnnybravo4]

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that's true, but in all fairness JB has a point that in that case what matters isn't his A/TO ratio, but rather his TO per 48min for instance. If he's asked to shoot and shoot only, I would expect low turnovers and low assists.

If his TO per 48 is high despite being only asked to shoot, that's bad.

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Good Las, you explained it better than I did.

[exodus]

First you say

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but the point is that Salim was never brought into the game to pass the ball.

His role was to shoot...shoot...shoot.

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Then you say

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When Salim was in the game

he was the primary ball handler.

He wasn't running off of screens like Reggie or Rip.

He mostly turned the ball over trying to make errant entry passes

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Talk about not making sense.

[DJlaysitup]

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..I'd like to keep Salim for his instant offense off the bench...

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Didn't TLue have a better 3-point %age than Salim this year?

[LastDon]

When we had dog,and Reef,Ratliff the reason why we couldn't win is because Jt couldn't break the press. It's amazing how when players play here how we over magnify their weaknesses and then once they leave we all of a sudden have this big appreciation for them again.

[Johnnybravo4]

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First you say

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but the point is that Salim was never brought into the game to pass the ball.

His role was to shoot...shoot...shoot.

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Then you say

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When Salim was in the game

he was the primary ball handler.

He wasn't running off of screens like Reggie or Rip.

He mostly turned the ball over trying to make errant entry passes

.

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Talk about not making sense.

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I said his primary responsibility was to shoot and not distribute the ball. I never said that he didn't try to distribute the ball. Obviously he couldn't just run the ball up the court then fire it up..they weren't playing at Run N Shoot or the local "Y". But his main purpose was to score. He avg 1 assist a game so obviously he passed it to someone eventually. Dude I am a lawyer, you can't catch me in a contradiction that easily.

[Nicholasp27]

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Lue,JJ, Smoove, Shelden, Zaza is a lineup that is intriguing if we don't do much this offseason.

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any lineup without marvin in it is 'intriguing' to u

[Lascar78]

Yeah of course I saw him in Atlanta. And you're probably right that I'm more critical of Slim because he's here, and less of JT because he's on the greener side of the hill. JT's handle is not the best in the league or anything, but I would still take his over Salim's any day.

[exodus]

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you can't catch me in a contradiction that easily.

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I just did. You said he was "never" brought in to the game to pass the ball but to "shoot...shoot...shoot". Then in the next breath you say that he was the primary ball handler when he came into the game.

If he was the primary ball handler then why didn't he get more assists?

The fact is that his ball handling duties were minimal but he STILL turned it over frequently. If he was asked to be a starting pg it would be a disaster.

I remember him starting at pg against Boston early in the year after he had that big expolosion against NOK. Delonte West was out and Salim STILL had 6 turnovers even though he was going up against Dan Dikau.

[AHF]

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When we had dog,and Reef,Ratliff the reason why we couldn't win is because Jt couldn't break the press.

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My recollection is that JT didn't work here when he was here because:

(1) the team generally had poor passing and a low basketball IQ and Terry just made that worse because he wasn't a playmaker in any real sense of the word;

(2) JT's size prevented us from upgrading our playmaking skills because he was too small to guard 2s and we couldn't find a playmaking guard who could guard 2s.

I don't remember him having particular difficulties with the press.

[Lascar78]

I agree. In a clutch situation where JT is handling the rock (hey look a pick and roll with reef - what a surprise!), I was a lot more concerned with the decisions JT was going to make or the bad passes he might throw than I was about him losing his handle and/or getting his pocket picked