The 5 Hawksquawk Sacred Cows.

[Diesel]

There are some here on Hawksquawk that would have some things immune from criticism.. What are the sacred cows on HS... Let's see.

1. Marvin. Marvin has developed a following on HS like nobodies business. HS refuses to recognize that missing out on CP was a mistake. Instead, HS would try to relate MW to being #8 Kobe Bryant and CP as being Stoudamire. It's funny. Marvin has All the excuses in the world.

2. JJ's true worth. HS has made JJ to be one of the elite players in the NBA..> Even though he will NEVER go to the Allstar game and he commits disappearing acts from time to time...

3. DIAW. Boris "I'm going back t France" Diaw. People don't want to recognize Boris. I applaud Boris. At the same time, I realize that BD was not going to play or try here. However, HS don't want to admit that our players go elsewhere and become better.. HELLO Tony Delk...

4. BK's drafting. NObody wants to criticize BK's drafting. That's never up for discussion. I guess when D. Stern says "with the 5th pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks Select Rudy Gay out of the University of Conneticutt." Then will be the time that this sacred cow will topple over.

5. Ownership boat sinking.. Am I the only one seeing that the ownership boat is sinking. I mean "the good owners" are sending their representatives to the radios to keep the peace.. Pretty soon Levenson will visit either RealGM or HS...We are definitely in panic mode. The problem is that the battle is not media.. it's financial. And Fans are fickle. It could be that AI is the savior of the franchise.

I think the ownership need the Rocky 4 pep talk...

"You're gonna have to go through hell, worse than any nightmare you've ever dreamed. But when it's over, I know you'll be the one standing. You know what you have to do. Do it. "

[drzachary]

1. There are reasonable threads discussing Marvin all the time. There are also unreasonable threads bashing Marvin all the time.

2. JJ is overrated by us because we're homers, as we should be. How do you know he will never go to the All-Star game?

3. Read the Diaw threads. Most of them say just what you said. He didn't want to play here, and he went elsewhere and became better. We didn't lose anything (though I wish we had drafted someone else), but Phoenix gained a lot.

4. People criticize BK's drafting all the time. Others don't want to give him ANY credit. We have one or two posters that think he's been flawless.

5. There are plenty of panic threads about the owners already.

I don't think 'sacred cows' is accurate, Diesel. Only a very small fraction of people here would treat them as such. An equally small fraction of people here more than overcompensate for the opposing viewpoints.

[Diesel]

If you decide to talk about these hot button topics honestly, you can look to be flamed.

I would call that a sacred cow for some.

[drzachary]

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If you decide to talk about these hot button topics honestly, you can look to be flamed.

I would call that a sacred cow for some.

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Depends on what you mean by 'honestly.'

Prefacing 'honest' commentary on Marvin with the usual Spongebob backpack jokes shows that it's not honest at all.

[DJlaysitup]

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If you decide to talk about these hot button topics honestly, you can look to be flamed.

I would call that a sacred cow for some.

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Exactly -

[Diesel]

Honest as being without all the exceptions and excuses.

Honest as in calling HOPE exactly what it is HOPE and not speaking of it as if it were inevitable.

That's with or without the Spongebob Backpack.

[TheDude]

well Diesel, when every freakin post has to, in some form, include a diss about Marvin Williams, then sure, people are going to get sick of it.

Where you find Sacred Cows, you find Whipping Boys. Most people on this site have things they like about the organization, things they don't. But it's not every single poster have all the same opinions on every single subject. So this entire thread is baseless and useless.

Should we say that you use EVERYTHING as a whipping boy since you hate on most things in the organization.

[b3bawla]

Dang if all this is true things are really bad. Maybe the franchise should just quit. Hang a closed sign on the Phillips Arena. To benefit the players, the league could release all our players from their contract to become free aagents. We can forfeit our picks and have the teams behind us move up. That'll teach all those Hawks fans to have hope and optimism.

[AHF]

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There are some here on Hawksquawk that would have some things

immune from criticism.

. What are the sacred cows on HS... Let's see.

1.

Marvin.

Marvin has developed a following on HS like nobodies business. HS refuses to recognize that missing out on CP was a mistake. Instead, HS would try to relate MW to being #8 Kobe Bryant and CP as being Stoudamire. It's funny. Marvin has All the excuses in the world.

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About 2-3 people on this entire site think Marvin's assession into being Kobe Bryant is inevitable and that CP=Stoudamire. The VAST majority recoginze that Marvin is unlikely to be as good as Kobe and a significant majority think he won't be as good as Chris Paul. Again, probably no more than 1-2 posters think Paul won't be better than Stoudamire.

People clearly attribute hope and expectation to Marvin all the time - as opposed to somekind of doubt-free inevitable rise to superstar. They also get sick of relentless bashing of the pick.

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2.

JJ's true worth

. HS has made JJ to be one of the elite players in the NBA..> Even though he will NEVER go to the Allstar game and he commits disappearing acts from time to time...

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Is this an example of speaking of something (JJ's chances of making an All-Star game) "as if it were inevitable"? Is he really guaratneed to never make it when we've seen appearances in last 4 years on the Eastern Conference squad by the like of Richard Hamilton, Paul Pierce, Gilbert Arenas - 05/06 (and other years), Grant Hill, Antawn Jamison 04/05, Michael Redd, Baron Davis 03/04, Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker 02/03, etc.

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3.

DIAW

. Boris "I'm going back t France" Diaw. People don't want to recognize Boris. I applaud Boris. At the same time, I realize that BD was not going to play or try here. However, HS don't want to admit that our players go elsewhere and become better.. HELLO Tony Delk...

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You can probably find posts by 20+ different people nearly every day for the past 3 months acknowledging his improvement and the fact that he wasn't going to play here.

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4.

BK's drafting

. NObody wants to criticize BK's drafting. That's never up for discussion. I guess when D. Stern says "with the 5th pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks Select Rudy Gay out of the University of Conneticutt." Then will be the time that this sacred cow will topple over.

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There are threads every day criticizing BK's drafting. There have probably been 50+ threads criticizing the Marvin pick alone. People are generally happy with his drafting (given the short length of time he has been picking and the number of quality players added), though. Even Mark Bradley praises his drafting during his now-weekly anti-BK columns. If BK drafts Gay the place will go apocalyptic - I totally agree with that. However, BK is far from immune from criticism - particularly for the Childress and Marvin picks.

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5.

Ownership boat sinking

.. Am I the only one seeing that the ownership boat is sinking. I mean "the good owners" are sending their representatives to the radios to keep the peace.. Pretty soon Levenson will visit either RealGM or HS...We are definitely in panic mode. The problem is that the battle is not media.. it's financial. And Fans are fickle. It could be that AI is the savior of the franchise.

I think the ownership need the Rocky 4 pep talk...

"You're gonna have to go through hell, worse than any nightmare you've ever dreamed. But when it's over, I know you'll be the one standing. You know what you have to do. Do it. "

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Again - not "immune from criticism" or a sacred cow. There are numerous threads either expressing concern about the ownership's groups stability (I have personally started several of these) or about the group's form (several people have written on the single/group ownership form).

[Nicholasp27]

the more i read diesel's threads, the more i realize he suffers from a syndrome known as DAOK, or 'dangerous amount of knowledge'

he knows enough to know about sacred cows and what they basically are, but he doesn't know enough to accurately apply the term, as seen in this post

he knows enough about stats on a 3rd grade level, but doesn't know enough to stop himself from looking like a plum fool (see the thread yesterday about lotto)

luckily, it's not really that dangerous on this board, as he isn't respected enough for people to actually take him at face value...on some boards, u get posters who are respected talking about something they have DAOK about and it means 100+ users blindly believe their false info...at least on here, Diesel hasn't gotten himself to that position so we don't have to worry about people (except maybe brand new people) getting affected by his DAOK

[exodus]

Hadn't heard that one before.

My opinion of Diesel has been pretty low from the beginning but even I had no idea just how clueless he is.

And the lengths that he goes to try to deny the obvious is quite impressive. he truly is a legend in his own mind.

[swolehawk2]

Please people, I come to this board to talk Hawks because I really can't find many "real" people to have a serious conversation about what is going on with the team.

I have learned when dealing with Diesel that he sometimes bases his opinions on facts. Unfortunately the "facts" are also his opinions..example did he just say that JJ will never go to an all star game, this is his opinion, however this will spawn several opinions about JJ, that in his mind are based on the "fact" that JJ will never be an all star...follow me?

Knowing the above...Diesel can be amusing and interesting.

[Nicholasp27]

yes

he attempts to form a logical proof based on a faulty foundation

actually, he creates several levels of faulty foundations throughout his 'proofs'

[jerrywest]

I wonder how many username Diesel has in this forum?

I first had this feeling in AccessAtlanta forum before everybody moved here.

[Diesel]

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People clearly attribute hope and expectation to Marvin all the time - as opposed to somekind of doubt-free inevitable rise to superstar. They also get sick of relentless bashing of the pick.

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Here is where we disagree.

People clearly attribute HOPE.. true... but not expectation. Nor do they separate hope from inevitability. They talk of Hope as if it's a forgone conclusion. Hope is what it is... HOPE.. and when the flaccidity about assigning expectatios on Marvin end, let me know...

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Is this an example of speaking of something (JJ's chances of making an All-Star game) "as if it were inevitable"?

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Me saying that JJ will never make the allstar game was spoken too soon.. however, it's a realization that even if Injured and not playing... D. Wade, Vince Carter, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, and Jason Kidd. Will more than likely get more votes than JJ. It's hard for Hawks to get votes. We are one of the lowest attendance teams in the game and we have no nationally televised games.

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ou can probably find posts by 20+ different people nearly every day for the past 3 months acknowledging his improvement and the fact that he wasn't going to play here.

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Everytime Boris is just mentioned.. you can see the Hawk haters rising up.

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There are threads every day criticizing BK's drafting. There have probably been 50+ threads criticizing the Marvin pick alone.

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Again. Don't post about BK's drafting tendencies without expecting to be flamed by HS faithful.

[Diesel]

I just feel that JJ has a harder road to the Allstar game because he has to unseat...

Lebron, Wade, Vince, AI, Arenas, and Kidd.

I also think that Redd and Hughes have the very same hard road to climb.

Moreover, JJ has to do it with one of the worst drawing teams (fans) in the NBA. and a team that's not going to get much national exposure.

So tell me.. how is my statement not based on a firm foundation??

Did i tip over a sacred cow with truth??

[exodus]

That is the truth. Wade is a lock. VC wasn't even voted in this past year. He was a coaches pick. Arenas didn't make it until someone dropped out.

JJ has a very good chance of making the All-Star team if the Hawks become a playoff team.

[AHF]

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People clearly attribute hope and expectation to Marvin all the time - as opposed to somekind of doubt-free inevitable rise to superstar. They also get sick of relentless bashing of the pick.

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Here is where we disagree.

People clearly attribute HOPE.. true... but not expectation. Nor do they separate hope from inevitability. They talk of Hope as if it's a forgone conclusion. Hope is what it is... HOPE.. and when the flaccidity about assigning expectatios on Marvin end, let me know...

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I can agree with failure to define expectations to a certain extent. I think Marvin needs to make 2-3 All-Star appearances over his career to meet my expectations. I think that is fairly clear but a lot of people don't have something that is easily ascertainable. I do think most people clearly attribute hope, though, without talking about a foregone conclusion. (There is a very notable exception to this rule! )

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Is this an example of speaking of something (JJ's chances of making an All-Star game) "as if it were inevitable"?

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Me saying that JJ will never make the allstar game was spoken too soon.. however, it's a realization that even if Injured and not playing... D. Wade, Vince Carter, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, and Jason Kidd. Will more than likely get more votes than JJ. It's hard for Hawks to get votes. We are one of the lowest attendance teams in the game and we have no nationally televised games.

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I agree it isn't necessarily going to be easy but in 4 years JJ will be 28 and AI and Kidd probably won't be in the All-Star running anymore. Arenas may no longer be a stud; Carter may be broken down, James may be considered a forward for the All-Star ballot, etc. Bottomline, is a lot could change and JJ is already good enough to be a borderline All-Star if the Hawks improve their record enough.

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You can probably find posts by 20+ different people nearly every day for the past 3 months acknowledging his improvement and the fact that he wasn't going to play here.

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Everytime Boris is just mentioned.. you can see the Hawk haters rising up.

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I assume you meant "Boris Diaw" hater and not "Hawk haters" and I agree with that but still think my point is totally accurate. Just as Diaw haters emerge with each thread, you find lots of people acknowledging his improvement on each thread, too. The presence of both opinions means it isn't a sacred cow, IMO.

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There are threads every day criticizing BK's drafting. There have probably been 50+ threads criticizing the Marvin pick alone.

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Again. Don't post about BK's drafting tendencies without expecting to be flamed by HS faithful.

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That doesn't mean it is a sacred cow for the site. I agree BK's drafting is a sacred cow for a very small minority of posters. For a larger group of posters, inflammatory or repetitive criticism of BK's drafting will get you flamed. However, most people are just passionate about their Hawks and think BK has done a pretty good job of drafting. I thin the majority of people won't "flame" (i.e., irrationally and emotionally criticize) someone who makes a reasonable criticism about BK's drafting tendencies.

I also think people will have more substantive information to work off of after this draft. This is the first time when I think we've gone in with pretty clearly defined needs and no players who scouts are really promoting as potential franchise guys. That makes for an easire analysis of picks, IMO.

[swolehawk2]

I guess if it is based on the "fact" that the Hawks will not be a playoff team in the next 5-7 years and the "fact" the Hawks won't get national exposure with JJ leading us from a doormat to the playoffs...then your opinion must be true.

Putting aside that JJ is only 25, just starting to play his best basketball...can be voted in by the coaches as a 1 2 or 3 ....then yeah, I can see how you can come to see that JJ will never be an all star.

After all, you based your opinion on facts, which are also your opinions.

[CBAreject]

Keep in mind I'm not sure what the original 5 were, but by this definition...

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If you decide to talk about these hot button topics honestly, you can look to be flamed.

I would call that a sacred cow for some.

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We must include a 6th topic...

6) Diesel's intellect

*talk about it honestly, and you can expect to be flamed!