Iverson Deal is dead

[Plainview1981]

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JJ has one major flaw that a bigtime scorer can't have, he has a conscience.

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That isn't a flaw that is a strength, at least if the goal is winning games and not padding stats.

JJ's hottest streak of the year happened with Lue playing major minutes next to him. Teams couldn't afford to trap him and leave Lue alone.

After the first month of the season it was rare for JJ to have a bad game when Lue was playing 20+ minutes. Of course in April JJ was just playing on dead legs.

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What about getting to the Free throw line and getting easy points?

[KB21]

You know. When they decided to completely rebuild the team, drafted Eddy Curry that they ultimately turned into the 2nd pick in this draft thanks to the idiot Isiah Thomas and traded for Tyson Chandler.

Then, they drafted Kirk Hinrich in 2003, and added Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, and Andres Nocioni in 2004.

[exodus]

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Who gives you those 26 point games when JJ is off next season?

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I guess you must not have watched the games Al missed. One of their biggest scoring nights of the year was a game Al missed and JJ was off against the Bucks, who were fighting for playoff position.

Smith, Marvin, Childress, Salim and Lue will be more than capable of picking up their scoring. And whoever the Hawks draft will be able to help most likely.

[KB21]

Yeah. Forego the future of the franchise because some fans are impatient and want instant gratification. I guess it doesn't matter to you whether or not this team ever wins a championship. You simply want them as an 8th seed that gets beat in the first round year after year, and because of poor personnel decisions like acquiring Allen Iverson, the team will be right back into the current situation within a few years.

[exodus]

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What about getting to the Free throw line and getting easy points?

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That is a different subject, and I don't see that ever being part of JJ's game. That is one reason why I would like to see the Hawks draft Roy or Foye, both of whom like to take it all the way to the rim rather than pulling up for short jumpers.

[tmac13]

You use a 1 game sample to validate your point?

[KB21]

You should get over your love of yourself and realize that you don't know a god damn thing about basketball or how to put together a cohesive basketball team that can win a championship down the road.

Like I said, Allen Iverson has never been able to coexist with another scorer or playmaker. You can't name one player that is of the caliber of Joe Johnson that Allen Iverson has ever been able to play alongside. The only types of players he has been able to play with are your typical role players: Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Theo Ratliff, Matt Gieger, Matt Harpring....guys who don't need the ball in the half court setting.

He had Jerry Stackhouse at one point. It didn't work out. He had Larry Hughes. It didn't work out. He has had Chris Webber, and it hasn't worked out.

It's really not that difficult to understand that this guy is a terrible fit for this basketball team. He will not only be a bad influence on the young guys with his practice habits. He will completely stunt their growth and decrease Joe Johnson's overall impact on the game tremendously due to his selfish ways.

Come on, Isiah the idiot. This is real life. The NBA is not played in fantasy land where you can take guys like Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, and Steve Francis and for a cohesive team with them.

[exodus]

Don't make me break out Diesels line "Do you even watch the games?". Go back and look at how Smith, Marvin and Childress improved their scoring as the season went on.

[Diesel]

Let's look at the team you called out, because I know you think you've called out something spectacular..but I remember those bulls...

Traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler...

Imagine.. if they had not?

Signed Eddie Robinson to a big time deal

Are you suggesting that JJ is our ERob?

Trading Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose/Travis Best

Trade Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall to Toronto for Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams

And you don't see the humor?

I won't even mention drafting Fizer and Crawford and...

Ah.. Forget it.

[tmac13]

When we get a player averaging 31 points 7 rebounds, and 6.5 assists then I might agree with you..JJ is a nice player, he is not in Lebrons league..One huge hole in JJ's game is getting to the line..Lebron excells in that, as does Iverson..

I am not totally sold on bringing him in either, but there are many points to consider before it is dismissed..Saying a guy that scores 30 points and dishes 7 assists a game won't make you immediately better is just silly.

[AHF]

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Who gives you those 26 point games when JJ is off next season?

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I guess you must not have watched the games Al missed. One of their biggest scoring nights of the year was a game Al missed and JJ was off against the Bucks, who were fighting for playoff position.

Smith, Marvin, Childress, Salim and Lue will be more than capable of picking up their scoring. And whoever the Hawks draft will be able to help most likely.

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I doubt he missed that game but I do think that Marvin, Smoove and Childress will pick up Al's scoring without too many problems. Marvin and Smoove in particular should continue to develop as scoring options if they put in the work.

[tmac13]

I agree completely that they improved as the season went on, that does not mean they will pick up the slack of losing a 19 point per game scorer..Also without AL, if JJ is off, if Smoove or Marvin do hot they might actually face a double team..I know neither one has yet to face that since highschool..Its a different world when you become a focal point for the defense.

[AHF]

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I agree completely that they improved as the season went on, that does not mean they will pick up the slack of losing a 19 point per game scorer..Also without AL, if JJ is off, if Smoove or Marvin do hot they might actually face a double team..I know neither one has yet to face that since highschool..Its a different world when you become a focal point for the defense.

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I do think this team has enough options that scoring won't be a big problem, though. If you double on Josh Smith or Marvin then someone is open and JJ, Lue, Salim, Zaza, etc. can all score the ball - especially when left open as a result of a double team. I particularly liked Smoove's developing passing skills in that regard.

[KB21]

You idiot!

Look at the date I put on that. FROM '01!!

Fizer was drafted in 2000, as was Jamal Crawford. They were part of the players that had to be moved for the rebuilding to be done. Elton Brand was moved because there was no way it was going to work out there for him.

The fact that you would even compare Eddie Robinson and Joe Johnson shows your complete ignorance of basketball. Eddie Robinson was a mistake the previous management made, and John Paxon got rid of him after the 2003-2004 season.

The fact is, the Bulls have built an up and coming young team predominately through the draft. They have done it the right way, and in the long run, you will see the Bulls and other teams that have built through the draft like Cleveland and Atlanta, dominating the Eastern Conference and putting themselves into a position to play for a championship. Those teams didn't make stupid mistakes in free agency or on the trade front during their rebuilding, which is what Allen Iverson would be. A stupid mistake.

[exodus]

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I doubt he missed that game

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he did

[exodus]

If Marvin and Smith don't become legit scorers then the Hawks are going nowhere no matter what moves they make.

And the Hawks defense, especially in the interior, was their big problem last year. Iverson doesn't address that at all and he isn't a good man defender at the point either.

[Diesel]

I must leave this untitled because there are several names I could have called.. but won't... I want you to justify one thing...

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Elton Brand was moved because there was no way it was going to work out there for him.

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Why is it that the co-rookie of the year that year wasn't going to work out in Chicago??

You just made up something right?

You didn't understand the lack of logic, so you pulled this out of your butt right?

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That summer, on June 27, just a few weeks after his high school graduation, he was selected second overall by the Los Angeles Clippers. At first, he and his mother were thrilled that he would be playing so close to home. However, moments later, he was traded to the Chicago Bulls for power forward Elton Brand. The move came as a complete surprise. After all, Brand was the first overall pick of the 1999 Draft and had averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds during his first two NBA seasons. What’s more, Brand was considered the cornerstone of the Bulls’ rebuilding effort.

“When they traded him for me, I was shocked,” says Chandler. “I never expected the Bulls to do that. If anything, I imagined they might draft me to play along side him. Suddenly, I felt a huge weight on my back. I thought, ‘I have to get out there and really do something big—and fast.’ I felt a lot of pressure.”

The trade surprised and bewildered many Bulls fans too. Brand was a proven talent, and likely to become a perennial All-Star. Chandler, on the other hand, was fresh out of high school, untested and still years away from reaching his prime. Former Bulls boss Jerry Krause, however, saw something special in Chandler that transcended time and statistics.

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[tmac13]

No, I didn't..If we can play the defenseless Bucks for all 82 games next season then I think we can do fine..Unfortunately, Smoove won't have alot of games with Andrew Bogut attempting to defend him on the perimeter.

[exodus]

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Smoove won't have alot of games with Andrew Bogut attempting to defend him on the perimeter.

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Did you change your name to Walter?

That is a big reason why I think Smith can play the 4, because he will be matched up against bigger, slower players and will be able to take advantage of them. i think Smith will be able to defend them easier than they can defend him in most cases.

And the Bucks made the playoffs in spite of their weak defense. I haven't looked but i doubt they had many games where they gave up 120 in regulation. And remember than game doomed them to a first round matchup against Detroit.

[frosgrim]

The one thing that I don't see much talk about on this particular AI thread is how much does he have in the tank? He's about to be on the wrong side of 30 and has taken a beating. When his explosiveness goes, and that is going to happen sooner than later, then his game will go as well. As much as Iverson can create a positive buzz, he could also create a really negative buzz. Think about what we would be saying if we traded this pick (Roy or a big) that turns into something solid PLUS one of our assests (Chil/Smoove/Marvin) and get back a slow version of Iverson. I don't think AI will break down in 06/07, but all bets are off for the remaining years on his contract, which is horrendous.

I just think the risk/reward for IVERSON is too much at this point. A trade of one of our assests for a younger player is something that must be considered, but a 30 year old hybrid point that relies on speed and a quick first step just isn't the right gamble for THIS team at THIS time.