SALIM or ROY?

[KB21]

I didn't expect you to understand how taking away the playmaking ability that Joe Johnson has will decrease his effect on the game as a player. I'm pretty sure you think Cleveland should get a true point guard as well and decrease LeBron James's effectiveness on the game as well, since he is the guy that runs the half court sets for that team.

[tmac13]

You think JJ is as good as LeBron?..In one post you are hugging BK's nuts saying "Look at Phoenix, they are all sf's and they are nearly to the finals"...What you fail to mention is the reason they can play like that is Nash..Then you seem to think JJ is in LeBrons class..News flash..He is not..JJ is a good player..He is not a guy that needs to be the primary ball handler and only playmaker on any team..Having a point guard will help JJ's game, not hurt it..

And finally, why don't you quit attempting to talk down to people, you only make yourself look like an idiot, especially since your exposure on the Jackie Butler thing..Being a little humble might be good for you.

[Final_quest]

Quote:

---

Why make Joe a spot up jump shooter though? He's far better than that. I believe that is what will happen if you go out and get a so called true point guard that will dominate the basketball. You will turn Joe Johnson into nothing more than a spot up jump shooter. That's what he was last year with Phoenix.

Why make his overall game less effective by doing that? I do not want to see his incredible playmaking skills go to waste.

---

This is what is called a false dilemma. You either pair JJ with a pure point guard and turn him into a spot up shooter, or let him be the primary ball handler and watch him dominate.

I don't buy it. JJ can still be a playmaker, even if you add another playmaker.

[exodus]

The value of JJ is that he can play well with or without a pure pg next to him. he gives the Hawks flexibility as to who they bring in.

Since there aren't many pure pgs out there i think it is more likely for BK to bring in a combo guard.

And for those who think it is absolutely necessary for the Hawks to get a pure pg look at Dallas. JT led them in assists at only 3.8 per game.

[Final_quest]

I can agree with that perspective. I don't think we should reach for a Marcus Williams because he is a "pure" PG, but it wouldn't be a disaster to have a player like him with JJ.

[Hoosier]

You never have enough playmakers on a team. By definition a playmaker does not take the ball out of another player's hands, but rather creates an optimal chance for their team to score. Pheonix was sucessful because they had several playmakers on the floor at any given time, including Diaw. If you have just one legitimate point guard or point forward your team will eventually bog down. This happens to Cleveland frequently and happened a lot to us last season.

Drafting someone like Williams would not bother me at all, if it were not for his bad rap on defense.

[KB21]

Once again, I'm not comparing Joe Johnson to LeBron James. The situations are similar though. LeBron James is the primary guy for that team in the half court set. He's the guy that is handling the ball and creating for others. Joe Johnson is the primary guy for the Hawks. He brings tremendous playmaking skills to the table, and you want to turn him into a spot up jump shooter because he doesn't fit into your antiquated idea of what a point man should be.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

you want to turn him into a spot up jump shooter because he doesn't fit into your antiquated idea of what a point man should be.

---

I don't think anyone is arguing he should be a spot up shooter except the straw man in your posts. The comparisons are being made to Phoenix and other teams that excel offesively with multiple ballhandlers. In their minds, JJ does not become a spot up shooter.

[joannes3000]

Quote:

---

Here's the problem you will have though.

If you pair Joe Johnson up with a guy like Marcus Williams, Marcus Williams will probably be pretty good in the open floor and bringing the ball up. Once the ball is in Joe's hands in the half court set though, Marcus Williams is not the type of point guard that can play off the ball. He's the type that has to be the creator with the basketball. That puts two guys who will need the basketball to be able to create on offense, and I simply don't believe it will mesh well with Joe Johnson.

Conversely, a guy like Randy Foye is a tremendous ball handler that is very capable of running the fast break and bringing the ball up the court, and he adds the benefit of being able to play off the ball in the half court setting. Randy Foye is a much better jump shooter and finisher than Marcus Williams is. Randy Foye is a Ben Gordon type of player, and I personaly believe that a Ben Gordon type is the best fit alongside Joe Johnson.

---

Looks like the best fit would be a Rip Hamilton type of guard. To me he's the perfect example of what we'd need beside JJ on offense. Someone that never stands still and can definitely create his own shot without the ball in his hands. Ben Gordon looks like the younger and cheaper version to me.

Back to the Roy vs Salim debate, I think that Roy's size (and his ability to defend bigger guards) puts him ahead of Salim. I love Salim's ability to be instant offense off the bench but the more important role looks to be who can start alongside JJ and not who can score more.

[KB21]

What was he in Phoenix?

A spot up jump shooter that had talent that was wasting because he didn't have the ball enough.

[Final_quest]

He had the ball enough to score 17 points and dish out 3.5 assists. Players on great teams usually are not able to fill up their stat sheets as much as they could.

Did David Robinson "waste" his talent when Tim Duncan was drafted? He could have scored and rebounded more on other teams, but probably wouldn't have won two titles either.

There were more players on the Suns that caused JJ to waste his talents apart from Nash. With players like Marion, Amare, and Q-rich jacking up 3's, it's easy for someone like JJ to "waste" his own talents.

I, for one, don't want our franchise to exist for the purpose of seeing how much JJ can fill up a stat sheet. That being said, I agree with you to an extent. I think ex said it best, though, JJ gives us the luxury of not needing a pure PG.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

He had the ball enough to score 17 points and dish out 3.5 assists. Players on great teams usually are not able to fill up their stat sheets as much as they could.

Did David Robinson "waste" his talent when Tim Duncan was drafted? He could have scored and rebounded more on other teams, but probably wouldn't have won two titles either.

There were more players on the Suns that caused JJ to waste his talents apart from Nash. With players like Marion, Amare, and Q-rich jacking up 3's, it's easy for someone like JJ to "waste" his own talents.

I, for one, don't want our franchise to exist for the purpose of seeing how much JJ can fill up a stat sheet. That being said, I agree with you to an extent. I think ex said it best, though, JJ gives us the luxury of not needing a pure PG.

---

Well said.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

What was he in Phoenix?

A spot up jump shooter that had talent that was wasting because he didn't have the ball enough.

---

He was more than a spot up shooter but what limited him in Phoenix is that he was the fourth option behind Nash, Amare and Matrix. He also competed with a bunch of other shooters for touches like Richardson.

Do you really see him as being a 4th option in Atlanta if we got a PG? I can't imagine anyone else being the first option on this team next year regardless of who we draft.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

You have already been proved wrong..JJ played well next to Nash who is the ultimate point guard..JJ was also the 3rd or 4th option at Phoenix and will easily be the 1st option with the Hawks..JJ may have fewer assists but score more points next to a true point being the 1st option..What is wrong with that? I don't give a rats azz about JJ's assist totals, I only care about the win column.

---

If Nash is such a ultimate point guard then why he didn't he take Dallas to the Finals, with a team that is more talented than the current Dallas team that is in the Finals?

What did Nash have some sort some epiphany in his 30's that made him in to the Ultimate PG? Or is it that he now plays in the Ultimate system?

[tmac13]

You think an injury riddled Phoenix is more talented than Dallas?..If you really think that there is no point in discussing it further..

[exodus]

Quote:

---

You think an injury riddled Phoenix is more talented than Dallas?..If you really think that there is no point in discussing it further..

---

In fairness to JB that isn't what he is saying.

He is saying that the Dallas team that Nash was on years ago had more talent than the current Dallas team.

I don't agree, but that is what he is saying.

[tmac13]

Yeah, I see that now..The big difference between the then and now Dallas teams is a more mature Dirk and overall better team defense..

Before you say it JB, I don't think Terry is any better defensively than Nash...So don't use that argument.

The greatest differece is probably San Antonio and Los Angeles being juggernauts in those days..

[BusBoyIsBack]

Why are people infatuated with adding a guard to this team period? Joe Johsnon, Josh Childress, and Salim should be our guards of the future. We need a big man. Zaza should come off the bench.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

---

Zaza should come off the bench.

---

Everone is complaining about ZaZa but this was really like his rookie year. His per stats are better than Channing Frye for boards and not far behing as far as points go.

The kid does need to bulk up and learn how to play harder D. Over all, if he was looked at as a rookie, I do not think many fans would be complaining so much. See above comparison to Frye, who the Knicks are in love with.

I do agree we need a stopper down low. But ZaZa is only going to get better. He is just 22 years old, that is the same age as a senior in college...

[Lascar78]

josh childress is not a guard. Have you seen him try to guard SG's? He just can't keep up.

nobody on our team is a starting caliber point guard.

That's why we're looking at PG's.