Shelden Williams

[Packfill]

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Upside is not mythical. It is very real.

At best, Shelden Williams will be an Antonio Davis type of player in the NBA, and you don't take an Antonio Davis with the 5th pick of the draft.

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BK took Childress with the 6th pick in an argueably better draft, and he has athletic limitations and was not as good a college player as Williams. Alot will depend on what Sheldon measures out at - if he is 6'7" that is a problem but if he is a legit 6'9" then he definitely belongs in the discussion of who the Hawks should pick at 5.

Plus, an Antonio Davis in his prime is pretty much exactly what this team needs.

[Diesel]

That has been the guiding light for a lot of guys who get caugth up on upside. I prefer real production as opposed to upside. I especially like a player with competitive fire.

Soon, the Height, Length, and Hype montra will be gone... because those players who have been picked with upside are going to turn into the new Tim Thomas, Darius Miles of the league.

[KB21]

Yeah.

Pete Babcock used to base his draft decisions on college production. Remember Ed Gray. He was a 20+ PPG scorer at California. His college production must have meant that he was going to excell in the NBA.

How about Trajan Langdon? He was JJ Redick before JJ Redick. Where is he at now?

Go back to the 1995 draft. Do you still go with the college production in Joe Smith over the potential and upside of Kevin Garnett? Knowing you, you probably would.

Mateen Cleaves = college production

[Final_quest]

Measurements will always be a factor. For every great athlete who was a dud, you have a Josh Smith to give hope. Also, for every Darius Miles dud, you can find a great college player who was even more of a disappointment like Pervis Ellison.

The draft is inexact science, but from the list someone on here compiled, most of the recent all-NBA players were top five picks. The prognosticators are doing something right.

[Diesel]

The point is that there are no KGs in this draft. There are no Kobe's in this draft. There's no sparkling diamond in the sky.

KB, you will have to get use to looking at talent based on production because of the new rule. GMs will have to look at a player for what he has done and not for what they think he could do. This is the first year. You have a guy with the pedigree of Shelden and what you're saying is that the Hawks should look past their own needs and take a player that's less accomplished based on what? Height, Hype, Length??

If that's how BK plans to draft, maybe it's time for him to go.

[mrhonline]

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Here is why he is what we need. He is a low-post scorer and is really tough around the basket, We have no one on this roster that has that type of game. We have some 6-9 guys that want to shoot jumpers all the way out to three point country. Sheldon is a tough low post scorer and rebounder. I would take him at #5 in a heartbeat.

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I like him, but why not trade down to draft him? You could pick up another big man or a PG in doing so, and would owe less money to Shelden over the course of the contract.

[DrReality]

How about Dion Glover. He was hurt and we drafted him. That was an embarassment.

[cyman3]

ok, Williams' upside isint as high as other centers. ill give you that.

and w/ the #5 pick, you want a huge difference maker. a superstar. i get that too.

however, you sound as if the other centers (w/ potential) will 100% reach their potential... while Sheldon Williams will only be an "Antonio Davis"

you mark off Williams b/c of his lack of potential... yet you praise other centers who lack skill but have potential.

Williams has just as the same chances of succeed as those players do of FAILING. however, hes more of a "sure" thing.

if those potential players turn out to be BUSTS. give me ANTONIO DAVIS!

ok, now heres the big question

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you have the #5 pick. are you going to take the CHANCES of a player X turning into a bust (Michael Olowakandi)... knowing that worst case scenario- you just missed out on a ROLE PLAYER?

the ultimate decisions that a GM has to make in this league.

after all is said and done, i trust BK's judgment. If he works out these players and does his HW, i trust him. Hes drafted well so far.

[Diesel]

Obryant is just as much an unknown as Steven Hunter specifically and Micheal Olowakhandi.

OBryant had too many games where he did absolutely nothing for me to get excited against one game against Pitt.

Pedigree

Williams has proven himself against the best competition and in the team usa games. He's been the defensive player of the year for the last 2 years. So what he doesn't have the flare of KG. So what he's not a ball handling big. He does what he does and he does it well.

We don't need a PF who's going to get us 8 assists.

We need a guy who can do the things that Williams does.

[AHF]

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Shelden isn't going to get any better than he is right now. Those two guys at least have an upside to their game.

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That is ridiculous. Why would he be capped out at age 22? Big guys improve all the time past that age - particularly on their offensive skills.

His "upside" may be limited by his athleticism but he has plenty of room to improve. Nobody's game is capped when they leave college - especially if they are willing to work hard.

[Vol4ever]

I don't have a problem with trading down to get him I just think he is the right fit for this team.

Think about it, he is a REAL low post player and they are not that many around anymore. If we drafted Sheldon he can play Center as in low post defense which we do not have. If your looking at height, hey Big Ben Wallace is about 6-7. I think Sheldon has the HEART to place in the low post.

[KB21]

When a player shows absolutely no gain or improvement from his junior to his senior season, I consider that player essentially maxed out potential wise. Shelden Williams was exactly the same player as a senior that he was as a junior. That's not a good sign and not what you want from the 5th pick in the draft.

[KB21]

Yes, I'm going to take that chance, because to be great, you have to take chances.

Jimmy Johnson had a phrase he used all the time. "You can either take chances and be great, or play it safe and be mediocre."

I think that phrase applies very well to the NBA draft in particular.

[exodus]

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When a player shows absolutely no gain or improvement from his junior to his senior season, I consider that player essentially maxed out potential wise. Shelden Williams was exactly the same player as a senior that he was as a junior.

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So scoring 3.3 ppg more and shooting 8% better from the line is showing absolutely no improvement? Looks like you are taking a page out of Diesel's Book of Statistics.

[KB21]

His field goal percentage went down, his rebounding went down, and his shot blocking stayed the same. Just because he took more shots doesn't mean he improved.

[exodus]

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His field goal percentage went down, his rebounding went down, and his shot blocking stayed the same. Just because he took more shots doesn't mean he improved.

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That is just plain stupid. His rebounding went down by .5 and his fg% went down by .004. Compare that to increases of 3.3 ppg and 8% improvement at the line and it is clear that you are just in denial.

Bringing in McRoberts allowed him to play outside the paint a little more and not worry so much about rebounding yet he still averaged 10.7 per game.

[BusBoyIsBack]

IF Shelden Williams is not 6'9 we take a chance on O'Bryant. If he is indeed 6'9 with a 7'3 wing span, then sign him up!

[KB21]

Still, there was no improvement. For him to be a four year starter in a conference that was as weak as the ACC was last year, I'd expect to see him averaging around 23 PPG and 13+ RPG. That didn't happen. Give me something that lets me know that this guy has the ability to be a great player in the NBA. Not just a solid player that will get you 12 and 10 a night. Give me something that lets me know that he has the potential to be a 20/10/5/3/3 guy. When Elton Brand was coming out, I saw that ability. He was putting up Shelden's senior numbers as a sophomore.

[exodus]

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I'd expect to see him averaging around 23 PPG and 13+ RPG

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Who was the last player to put up those numbers in the ACC?

As a point of reference Sheldens numbers are almost identical to Okafors when he came out.

[jerrywest]

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Still, there was no improvement. For him to be a four year starter in a conference that was as weak as the ACC was last year, I'd expect to see him averaging around 23 PPG and 13+ RPG. That didn't happen. Give me something that lets me know that this guy has the ability to be a great player in the NBA. Not just a solid player that will get you 12 and 10 a night. Give me something that lets me know that he has the potential to be a 20/10/5/3/3 guy. When Elton Brand was coming out, I saw that ability. He was putting up Shelden's senior numbers as a sophomore.

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If Shelden was as good as Brand, we would have an entirely different argument. Diesel would be offering Marvin+#5 to get the #1 for Shelden.