Shelden Williams

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Still, there was no improvement. For him to be a four year starter in a conference that was as weak as the ACC was last year, I'd expect to see him averaging around 23 PPG and 13+ RPG. That didn't happen. Give me something that lets me know that this guy has the ability to be a great player in the NBA. Not just a solid player that will get you 12 and 10 a night. Give me something that lets me know that he has the potential to be a 20/10/5/3/3 guy. When Elton Brand was coming out, I saw that ability. He was putting up Shelden's senior numbers as a sophomore.

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So these numbers aren't impressive for a big man playing in one of the toughest conferences in college basketball?

18.8 PPG

10.7 RPG

3.8 BPG

1.3 SPG

1.1 APG

.578 FG

.744 FT

[KB21]

...and who went higher? Okafor or Howard?

[exodus]

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...and who went higher? Okafor or Howard?

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Dude seriously are you high right now?

First you say Shelden didn't improve at all when he obviously did. An improvement of 3.3 ppg and 8% from the line is statistically significant. A decrease of .004 in his fg percentage isn't.

Then you try to change the argument and say that Shelden should be averaging 23/13, which nobody has done in recent memory in any major conference.

FYI there is no Dwight Howard in this year's draft.

[jerrywest]

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...and who went higher? Okafor or Howard?

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Dude seriously are you high right now?

First you say Shelden didn't improve at all when he obviously did. An improvement of 3.3 ppg and 8% from the line is statistically significant. A decrease of .004 in his fg percentage isn't.

Then you try to change the argument and say that Shelden should be averaging 23/13, which nobody has done in recent memory in any major conference.

FYI there is no Dwight Howard in this year's draft.

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No Elton Brand either.

[exodus]

What does that have to do with anything?

[Final_quest]

With a teammate like Reddick, plus all the other great players Duke brings in, I don't see how Shelden's numbers could be much better. If you want to argue Shelden's potential is maxed out, I wouldn't use his college stats to prove it.

[Packfill]

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...and who went higher? Okafor or Howard?

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Dude seriously are you high right now?

First you say Shelden didn't improve at all when he obviously did. An improvement of 3.3 ppg and 8% from the line is statistically significant. A decrease of .004 in his fg percentage isn't.

Then you try to change the argument and say that Shelden should be averaging 23/13, which nobody has done in recent memory in any major conference.

FYI there is no Dwight Howard in this year's draft.

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Not to mention we are talking about the 5th pick, not the first. Totally different scenario. If Childress is good enough for the 6th pick it is hard to make an argument that Williams is not good enough for the 5th pick.

I am still not sure who the Hawks should pick, but if they go big at 5 then Williams, O'Bryant and whomever is left between Thomas and Aldridge is definitely in the conversation. If the Hawks go guard, then Roy and Foye are in the conversation, with Williams and Rondoon the outside.

[exodus]

Right now Roy is still at the top of my wish list. I like Shelden a lot but I think Smith can do fine at the 4. If the Hawks didn't have Smith I wouldn't hesitate to take Shelden.

[KB21]

I also wouldn't use his college stats in an attempt to prove that he's worth the 5th pick. This is a player that I seriously doubt will average more than 15 points and 10 rebounds a game in his NBA career. I simply do not see the upside. I don't want a guy who just gets me 15 and 10 with the 5th pick in the draft. I'd rather take a chance that Patrick O'Bryant will give me 20 and 10 at some point than to take a guy I know will never be able to do that.

[Diesel]

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When a player shows absolutely no gain or improvement from his junior to his senior season, I consider that player essentially maxed out potential wise.

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Karl Malone.

Did you know that Karl Malone was better in his freshman year than his Sophomore or Junior Year???

Guess he was maxed out huh??

Micheal Jordan

I guess Mr. Jordan showed no improvement from his Sophomore to Junior year... Must have maxed out??

Clyde drexler

Clyde the Glyde... NO improvement... Must have been at his max. Pity.

[drzachary]

If KB21 replied to your post with "Comb yo beard, I don't wanna hear that s**t!" he might leapfrog everyone to #1 on the Top Ten Hawksquawkers List.

[Final_quest]

I think you may have unrealistic expectations for the 5th pick then. It's not like 5 superstars, or even allstars, normally come out of a draft. Someone stated they would be disappointed if Shelden turned out to be Antonio Davis, doesn't sound too bad too me.

[KB21]

Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, and Dwyane Wade have all be taken with the 5th pick.

[drzachary]

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Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, and Dwyane Wade have all be taken with the 5th pick.

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Only four superstars?

How many that weren't?

I'd say that 'normally the fifth pick doesn't give you a superstar' is a pretty reasonable statement, and I hate reason.

[Final_quest]

Won't JJ's assist numbers and scoring go down? If we had another superstar it will take the ball out of his hands more, right?

[KB21]

No.

That only happens if we get a point guard that wants to dominate the ball.

[Packfill]

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I also wouldn't use his college stats in an attempt to prove that he's worth the 5th pick. This is a player that I seriously doubt will average more than 15 points and 10 rebounds a game in his NBA career. I simply do not see the upside. I don't want a guy who just gets me 15 and 10 with the 5th pick in the draft. I'd rather take a chance that Patrick O'Bryant will give me 20 and 10 at some point than to take a guy I know will never be able to do that.

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This is crazy. How many guys in the league can average 15/10? If someone offered me a player that could average that for his career right now in exchange for the 5th pick it would be a no-brainer deal, especially if that guy is a good low post defender.

How many guys picked 5th or higher have never even sniffed those numbers for their career?

[drzachary]

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I also wouldn't use his college stats in an attempt to prove that he's worth the 5th pick. This is a player that I seriously doubt will average more than 15 points and 10 rebounds a game in his NBA career. I simply do not see the upside. I don't want a guy who just gets me 15 and 10 with the 5th pick in the draft. I'd rather take a chance that Patrick O'Bryant will give me 20 and 10 at some point than to take a guy I know will never be able to do that.

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This is crazy. How many guys in the league can average 15/10? If someone offered me a player that could average that for his career right now in exchange for the 5th pick it would be a no-brainer deal, especially if that guy is a good low post defender.

How many guys picked 5th or higher have never even sniffed those numbers for their career?

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There have been 65 players in the history of the NBA with career rebounding averages 10 or higher, according to basketball-reference.com (seems low!)

[Packfill]

That is why, in my view, getting someone with that type of production with the 5th pick is a good thing.

Really, I just love playing devil's advocate when someone (usually KB, Diesel, Hotlanta or Walter) take some extreme all or nothing view.

[tmac13]

I agree..KB give us ANY example in recent years of anyone putting up 23/13 in a major conference..Sheldons numbers were mainly as a result of having another quality bigman in the lineup which he had not had before.