Do not forget to measure the competive spirit

[Peoriabird]

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...There are some on here that only want instant gratification. They don't have a long term vision for the team...

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Puleeeeze, the "potential years" are over. Hawks already have plenty of potential. If BK drafts another "potential" guy this year his 5 year plan turns into a 7 year plan (and he won't be around to see year 6).

It doesn't matter if X-guy is a sophomore but Y-guy is a senior. The guy we draft has to produce 1st year. That being the case, I would strongly advise we draft a guy with a track record of getting the job done against quality competition.

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I must be tired from be on-call last night

Again, there is a long list of guys that have produced in collage and din't do squat in the pros and may of those guys were selected before Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, Garnett, Nash, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Vince Cater, Tracy McGrady etc. The Scouts are smarter now and don't necessarily look at the player's college production because that depends on several variables like coaching style, who is already on the team, age etc. but rather, focuses on the player's actual skill and project how that skill will be useful in the NBA or to the specific team type of you are trying to build.

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I must be tired from be on-call last night. Can't spell or put sentences together anymore.

[KB21]

If somehow Billy goes against his philosophy in this draft and takes a guy like Shelden Williams, I don't want to hear all the belly aching that will come when someone taken after him becomes a much better player than he will be. In particular, Patrick O'Bryant.

[DJlaysitup]

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...I don't want to hear all the belly aching that will come when someone taken after him becomes a much better player than he will be. In particular, Patrick O'Bryant.

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I promise not to belly ache KB...in fact, if Patrick "three games" O'Bryant turns out to be a star, I'll buy you a corn dog

[exodus]

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Again, there is a long list of guys that have produced in collage and din't do squat in the pros and may of those guys were selected before Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, Garnett, Nash, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Vince Cater, Tracy McGrady etc

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This is one of those statements where I have no idea where you are coming from. Dirk, Kobe, Garnet and McGrady didn't go to college while the others were college stars. i don't see the correlation.

[Final_quest]

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Again, there is a long list of guys that have produced in collage and din't do squat in the pros and may of those guys were selected before Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, Garnett, Nash, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Vince Cater, Tracy McGrady etc

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This is one of those statements where I have no idea where you are coming from. Dirk, Kobe, Garnet and McGrady didn't go to college while the others were college stars. i don't see the correlation.

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I was thinking the same thing, but because his basic point was correct, I let it go.

[Admin]

Shelden Williams is a safe pick! However, just because he was ultra productive for his last 2 years with similar production in each year doesnt mean he doesnt have upside to him. Hell, look at Tim Duncan his last few years in college.

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG

93-94 WakeForest 30.2 54.5 100.0 74.5 9.6 0.9 1.2 3.8 0.4 9.8

94-95 WakeForest 36.5 59.1 42.9 74.2 12.5 2.1 2.8 4.2 0.4 16.8

95-96 WakeForest 37.3 55.5 30.4 68.7 12.3 2.9 3.3 3.8 0.7 19.1

96-97 WakeForest 36.7 60.8 27.3 63.6 14.7 3.2 3.2 3.3 0.7 20.8

Doesnt seem like he improved much at all, just like Shelden Wiliams ... however, both were dominant in their final 2 years and didnt need to improve. Duncan has just been consistently dominant in the NBA, just as I expect Williams can be.

[KB21]

So, you actually think Williams, who isn't 7 feet tall like Tim Duncan is, can average 20 and 10 in the NBA?

[Admin]

Yes, I do. Shawn Marion isnt 7' tall and he averages better than that. Not saying they are anywhere near the same type of player, but I see no reason why Shelden Williams cannot have a similar type of production, along with better defense.

[KB21]

Shawn Marion is far more explosive as a player. He has better range, can handle the basketball, and most importantly, he has the versatile skills to play the 2-5 positions. There is simply no comparison here.

[AHF]

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So, you actually think Williams, who isn't 7 feet tall like Tim Duncan is, can average 20 and 10 in the NBA?

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That isn't a very realistic projection for any college player considering the very small number of 20 and 10 guys in the NBA. Duncan wasn't a 20 & 10 guy last year.

The better question is whether Williams will be a good starting PF in the NBA. The best question is whether he will be better than O'Bryant, Thomas, Aldridge, Roy and anyone else we might consider taking over him.

[KB21]

Tim Duncan is a CAREER 22 PPG and 12 RPG player.

[AHF]

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Tim Duncan is a CAREER 22 PPG and 12 RPG player.

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So what? He is also the best player of the last decade in the NBA. Do you expect to get someone like him in this draft? I don't.

Last season there were THREE players in the entire NBA who averaged 10.0 or greater rebounds per game and 20.0 or greater points per game. That is a highly elite criteria and one I don't think is useful for evaluating prospects.

[KB21]

When you have the 5th pick in the draft, you have to shoot for someone that you believe is capable of putting up those kinds of numbers. You don't settle for a guy who was a productive college player but is lacking in many things that will keep him from ever being a great player at the pro level.

[Packfill]

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When you have the 5th pick in the draft, you have to shoot for someone that you believe is capable of putting up those kinds of numbers. You don't settle for a guy who was a productive college player but is lacking in many things that will keep him from ever being a great player at the pro level.

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Was that BK's perspective when he drafted Josh Childress with the 6th pick?

[KB21]

Are you trying to say that Josh didn't have potential?

Because if you are, then neither Andre Iguodala nor Luol Deng have potential either, since Josh has been as good if not better than both of them.

[AHF]

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Are you trying to say that Josh didn't have potential?

Because if you are, then neither Andre Iguodala nor Luol Deng have potential either, since Josh has been as good if not better than both of them.

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Having potential is different than having the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. At #5 it isn't bad to draft someone you know will be a quality starter for years to come if they fit a need on your team. You don't have to draft someone with greater "upside" like taking Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol just because you know Gasol is only going to be generally a sub-All-Star level PF and Brown has the "upside" to be a top 3 power forward in the league.

What you want is the guy who is actually the best player available.

[Packfill]

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Are you trying to say that Josh didn't have potential?

Because if you are, then neither Andre Iguodala nor Luol Deng have potential either, since Josh has been as good if not better than both of them.

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Do you honestly think Josh Childress will ever average 20 points per game? If not then, according to your logic, he was a waste of a draft pick.

[Guest Walter]

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He didn't get any better as the season went along, did he?

Raymond Felton did.

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1st Paul is younger and less experienced than Felton suggesting Paul can develop even more. 2nd Paul played 36 MPG from the start of the season on. He should have hit the rookie wall with full force but still managed 15.8, 8.2 A, and 2.4 TOs a game the 2nd half of the season. 3rd, Felton averaged 25 MPG the 1st half of the season, 11 less than Paul, he should have come on strong not being exhausted by season's end. 4th, while Felton's 2nd half stats were almost as good, all of Deron's, Felton's, and Pauls embarassed Marvin Williams' stats.

Thus, let's assume you are right and Felton continues to improve at some similar rate. NO doubt MW will never match his production given his meager performance this year. Regardless, EVERY SINGLE TOP 5 PG SIGNIFICANTLY OUTPLAYED AND OUTPRODUCED MW! Not just one. Not just 2. All 3. If MW had a lick of greatness in him I would suspect he could have by luck outplayed one of them. He didn't and he will be lucky to resemble any of their careers given the greater importance and difficulty filling the Pg position.

W