Players Wingspan are in

[exodus]

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Shelden isn't a center prospect only in Walter's stupid, short sighted, small minded, antiquated thought process when it comes to basketball.

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As much as it pains me I have to take Walters side here. Shelden isn't a center prospect due to his 8'8" reach, especially playing next to Smith.

The Hawks need someone at the 4/5 that has size unless they intend to be a fast break team like the suns. Of course in order to do that they would need a quality pg and it doesn't look like we will be getting one any time soon.

[lynred]

The one thing that stood out to me was J.J Redick - His wingspan (6'3.25) is SHORTER that his listed height (6'4.75)

[Admin]

how many of All-Star SF/PF's in the NBA were dominant their rookie year and continued to be dominant?? How many that went on to be dominant were simply average their rookie year??

It seems to me that those guys usually take a year or two to even remotely show the player that they will become. Hell you guys can look back at this time last year and MANY people were projecting Smoove as a 6th man because we hadnt seen anything to justify thoughts of greater things ... then about 2/3ds through the season he starts putting up crazy all around numbers, numbers that you would expect to see from an AK-47 and showing us a glimpse of what he could ultimately become. The same could be expected of Marvin. Even though Walter cant see through his hate colored glasses, Marvin actually wants to play PF and has the size and skills to play there and as he matures into his body will very likely prove to be a damn good one.

[DrReality]

After your report the other night after the meeting with BK and after mulling over a few days the info, I have to think that what he gave you is a smoke screen. BK has NEVER, REPEAT NEVER disclosed his intentions in the past. Why would he change now? You gotta wonder if that is not the case. Classic misdirection play?

[AHF]

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After your report the other night after the meeting with BK and after mulling over a few days the info, I have to think that what he gave you is a smoke screen. BK has NEVER, REPEAT NEVER disclosed his intentions in the past. Why would he change now? You gotta wonder if that is not the case. Classic misdirection play?

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Either that or not actually giving much everyone else doesn't already know. The only "news" coming out that for me is that he isn't considering picking a guard at #5.

[Guest]

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how many of All-Star SF/PF's in the NBA were dominant their rookie year and continued to be dominant?? How many that went on to be dominant were simply average their rookie year??

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Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce and Elton Brand were all certainly All-Stars or near All-Stars their first year. But if you look at the remaining SF/PF who were all-stars, Dirk, Rasheed, JO, KG, T-Mac, and Marion had rookie years that would make you question if they were going to be good at all. And only T-Mac and JO had second seasons where you again questioned if they were going to be good at all. You certainly can't lump Marvin into the category of players who became all-stars right now, but you can put him into the category of players who need another year. But for every Marion there are Jonathan Benders and Quincey Lewis. For every Dirk there are Vladimir Stepania and Aleksander Pavlovic.

I am not saying Marvin is a bust, but you certainly can't lump him into a category of Marion and Sheed without also taking into account people like Tractor Traylor and all those...

[RAHMOR]

I really wanted to see what his wingspan and standing reach were just out of curiosity.

[drzachary]

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how many of All-Star SF/PF's in the NBA were dominant their rookie year and continued to be dominant?? How many that went on to be dominant were simply average their rookie year??

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Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce and Elton Brand were all certainly All-Stars or near All-Stars their first year. But if you look at the remaining SF/PF who were all-stars, Dirk, Rasheed, JO, KG, T-Mac, and Marion had rookie years that would make you question if they were going to be good at all. And only T-Mac and JO had second seasons where you again questioned if they were going to be good at all. You certainly can't lump Marvin into the category of players who became all-stars right now, but you can put him into the category of players who need another year. But for every Marion there are Jonathan Benders and Quincey Lewis. For every Dirk there are Vladimir Stepania and Aleksander Pavlovic.

I am not saying Marvin is a bust, but you certainly can't lump him into a category of Marion and Sheed without also taking into account people like Tractor Traylor and all those...

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I'm trying to put together a comparison list of every player ever to enter the draft after their freshman year of college. There aren't that many!

[Nicholasp27]

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if before the draft you knew Ryan Gomes was going to have a more productive season than MW would any of you still insist upon MW's so called "up-side".

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ok, walter has OFFICIALLY lost it

he is now saying that we wouldn't want marvin if we knew that he was gonna have a worse ROOKIE year than ryan gomes

last i checked marvin's rookie season was on par with many future superstars' rookie season

wow @ one season mattering

ps. i posted MANY times that smoove is a pf before we ever knew we'd get the #2 pick or draft marvin...so again, you/diesel keep spouting off BS that we only want smoove at pf due to marvin...i'm one counter-example to your theory

[ATLBob]

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The fact that we have a couple superstars that had marginal rookie years, doesn't impress me.

You can find a Kobe, Tmac, and Garnett to give hope, but let's face it, most players who don't produce in their first year usually don't become all-stars.

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Are you serious? How many 19-yr-old rookies experienced outstanding rookie years? No really, who? Just because Marvin went to UNC for a year instead of coming straight outta high school, all of a sudden he can't be compared to other 18/19-yr-old first year players?

Marvin played 24.7 minutes per game and averaged 8.5 pts and 4.8 brds.

KG, who garners best player around talk, averaged 10.4 pts and 6.3 brds his rookie season in 28.7 minutes per game. Four more minutes, 1.9 more pts, 1.5 more brds.

Kobe got 7.6 pts and 1.9 brds, only played 15.5 minutes. Less pts, less boards, less minutes.

T-Mac got 7.0 pts and 4.2 brds in 18.4 min per game. Again, less pts, less brds, less minutes.

Yep, looks like Marvin's numbers just really don't stack up. Guess we should just trade him before he becomes a bust.

Haha, I bet Minny regrets holding onto KG. LA looks foolish to for keeping Kobe after one yr. Toronto, on the other hand, did lose T-Mac. Think they'd be explosive if they still had him? Y'all kill me, you really do ...

[Nicholasp27]

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Nobody would believe JS was (more) a Pf were it not for the presence of MW.

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why do u and diesel continually spread this LIE

I posted MULTIPLE times last spring during smoove's rookie year that he should be PF in the future

Others agreed

Many compared him to a young shawn kemp, a pf

yet you guys act like marvin is the ONLY reason we say smoove should be pf and that we wouldn't if we didn't draft marvin but instead got a pg

again,

your quote above is NOT true, so stop posting it if u wanna post truth and not blatant lies...u know it to be untruthful since i've told u this before and u've seen the discussions in the past

[Iman]

Yup Walter, in my subconscious I am concerned that Smoove and Marvin at the forwards wont work. I also get a mild feeling of satisfaction everytime Deron or Paul have bad games. I really got your point that we will need a post offensive and defensive presence to play alongside Marvin and Smoove. Funny enough that might not be so much the case if we had a great point like Paul who could open up the court. I'd also love a Marvin for Livingston trade. I bet BK pretty much feels the same on those topics also.

Hopefully BK will find the player that will fit. If he doesnt I assume he'll be released and you/Diesel will take his place. At least I assume that's why you/Diesel keep pointing out the mistake, to get the job. Because if it's not and it's just to make a point here, I think we got it.

Now I just hope Aldridge doesnt have a bad back and he falls to us. Problem solved and no Walter as GM.

[Guest Walter]

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Shelden isn't a center prospect only in Walter's stupid, short sighted, small minded, antiquated thought process when it comes to basketball.

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I guess anybody can be a center prospect in your world if BK says it is so, but nobody can claim Shelden is a good center prospect. There is maybe one NBA center his height (but not his lousy standing reach), 10000000000000000000 like him who failed either to make the NBA or succeed in it. Those are bad odds for a #5 pick.

He's a Pf only regarding his height/size. We ALL know it. Now, if we draft him what are we gonna do about it given he benches one of our Sf prospects (or doesn't play himself)?

W

[Guest Walter]

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I don't often weigh in on the Marvin debate because it's been done enough, but at this point, I'm not expecting him to turn into anything more than a Matt Harpring. The difference is I have a fan's hope that he will become something more.

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Well put. It's a fan's hope. IMO that is a far reach from enough to support a bottleneck at one position when there are serious holes at several other positions.

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The fact that we have a couple superstars that had marginal rookie years, doesn't impress me.

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I feel this "frankenstein" team is flawed. It lacks a superstar and AT BEST has 2.5 starting positions filled (Sg, Sf, and .5 at Pf with ZaZa and JS filling in minutes there).

If this draft offers a shot at Bargnani, I hope we get him somehow, including a trade up. He doesn't currently fit a positional need much more than either of our existing Sfs, but he's 19, WILL gain weight, doesn't have to grow taller (wishful thinking for most), and already has the perimeter game down so well he can touch on his post game (alah Dirks). Most importantly, he has superstar potential, which you accomodate if needed. MW is not remotely a superstar or potential one. Neither the talent, production, or attitude (defers) to become one. You don't accomodate, particularly the whole team, for him.

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You can find a Kobe, Tmac, and Garnett to give hope, but let's face it, most players who don't produce in their first year usually don't become all-stars.

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AMEN! That's why JS isn't likely to be a superstar, but he's been 25% more productive than both MW both as respective rookies (with JS a year younger) or this year as same aged youngsters.

I know you don't want to get dragged into the debate. It's just frustrating to see fan hope willing to do everything bad for the team like draft the wrong people and play everyone out of position just to keep hope in an underwhelming draft selection.

In short, MW will not be a superstar. His selction was poor addressing no team needs such as potential superstar nor filling a position. His performance was and is to date underwhelming. His drafting has created only problems including where to play better, similar players and who must we reach for in this draft to justify his selection the year prior. We would do better to trade him while his #2 pick value remains. We would open up a position solely for JS, with Childress as the 2/3 BU, and clear room to draft any of the top 8 picks in this draft without fear they won't suit the team. We should do so now because we've mortgaged next year's offseason to get it right this offseason.

...and no amount of fan hope will change all this.

Those who would hinge the team on JS being a (SG or) Pf, JJ being a Pg, and/or SW being a center are sadly mistaken. No amount of fan hope makes long shot possibilities good team building moves.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Well the odds of Smith and/or Marvin being good starting caliber PF's are significantly better (IMO) than the odds of Zaza being a good starting C.

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It's not about whether MW or JS can "be good starting caliber" Pfs (they likely can't as I have indicated only 1 PF remotely at their size and weight has in Jamison - #9 in top 10 - and he's always been a Pf and loves playing it!), it's about whether they are better at Pf over SF and if playing them at Pf does the team a disservice.

BTW, I'm not sure MW (or even JS) would be a better starting Pf than ZaZa a starting center. They are all young and MW with his LB problems would get eaten up inside. ZaZa get's his shot blocked a fair amount, but not more than MW. MW at Pf could have his shot constantly rejected.

[Guest Walter]

per 48 stats please with at least 20 MPG.

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last i checked marvin's rookie season was on par with many future superstars' rookie season

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I doubt you can find a 1st rd forward in last year's draft with the above criteria that did worse than MW. Granger and Gomes were both at least 20% better. Maybe the HSer, Webster wasn't but he was close and didn't get 20 MPG.

I'd love to see your list of superstars (above criteria) with MW's per48 stats. Love it. Bring it on. I guarantee you any such list would have 10 times as many who didn't become superstars.

[Guest Walter]

...a superstar. A star yes, but not a super one.

I don't think JS will become one either but he d@mn sure has at least a 25% better chance of becoming a superstar at Sf than MW anywhere on the court no matter where he "wants" to play.

...and as far as superstars taking a year or two to develop, most don't.

Lebron (instant),

Carmelo (instant),

Wade (instant),

Arenas (not instant but it was because he had to transfer to the Pg position)

Howard (isn't there yet and as a big will take another year)

Still that's the modern day transition. Bigs still take the longest, Pgs next, Pfs next...Not swing players who demonstrate superstar potential all but instantly if not sooner, where athleticism can make them almost instant contributors.

W

[AHF]

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instantly if not sooner

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That is my maximum timetable for success. On my leniant days I accept instant success. Sooner all others.

[ATLBob]

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per 48 stats please with at least 20 MPG.

[Guest]

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per 48 stats please with at least 20 MPG.

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You're absolutely right Walter, because they didn't average 20 mpg across their entire rookie seasons, Kobe and T-Mac didn't become superstars. Please. Your criteria sucks.

P.S. Those stats were per 48 minutes, I just also happened to list the number of minutes each player averaged playing over those 48 minutes. Surley you don't mean you want me to use those statistics to calculate their stats had they each played all 48 minutes. Actually, what do you mean "per 48 stats"? Yeah, you can pull your foot outta your mouth now, but you prolly won't ...

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First Bob, try straightening up your posts, make sure what you want to say is outside of the quotes. For one, Kobe is a SG, not a 3/4. Are you telling me that Marvin is going to become the next Kobe? Hahahahaha, good one.

And as for T-Mac, you used a good example. Here are his per 40 stats compared to Marvin's per 40 (per 40 is the same thing as per 48, just you get less values):

T-Mac 15.3 ppg 9.1 rpg 3.3 apg 1.7 spg 2.1 bpg .450 FG%

Marv 13.7 ppg 7.8 rpg 1.3 apg 1 spg .5 bpg .443FG%

Where is Marvin better or even equal to T-Mac? I am waiting. Bob, you may want to get some new shoes because it seems like you have one of them stuck in your mouth.