Hawks to swap picks/Marvin for Iverson?

[Wretch]

I don't question his game so much and he has held up well. I have no doubts that he will slow down. Probably not to a crawl, but in 3 - 5 years, to a level that is much less explosive. He may adjust his style of play, but the years of being knocked around, banged up, and playing through pain will make a considerable difference.

Regardless, we don't know what becomes of the talent that we give up for him. Regardless of how much gas AI has in the tank, I'm not willing to mortgage our future of it and I don't think it's enough to get us too far from the 1st round of the playoffs.

[Johnnybravo4]

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I don't question his game so much and he has held up well. I have no doubts that he will slow down. Probably not to a crawl, but in 3 - 5 years, to a level that is much less explosive. He may adjust his style of play, but the years of being knocked around, banged up, and playing through pain will make a considerable difference.

Regardless, we don't know what becomes of the talent that we give up for him. Regardless of how much gas AI has in the tank, I'm not willing to mortgage our future of it and I don't think it's enough to get us too far from the 1st round of the playoffs.

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So A.I. doesn't get us far into the playoffs but Josh Childress/#5 pick in weak draft will?

[KB21]

It's a completely bad fit and an instant team chemistry problem. Once again, name one scorer Allen Iverson has ever played with that he didn't bitch about and force the 76ers to deal him? What makes people think that it would be any different if he were playing next to Joe Johnson?

[Wretch]

At no stage in either of their careers can you compare the impact of a dominant center like Shaq to a guard like Iverson. I love AI to death, but he doesn't change the gameplan of a team the way Shaq does.

[Johnnybravo4]

Yeah we don't want to disrupt the chemistry of a 26 win team which will likely have minimum 2 different starting players this year.

Geez

[Wretch]

You have no idea what they'll do. At not even 3 NBA years old combined, you are telling me that you can assess their value over a 10 - 15 year period? You could be completely wrong to say that Childress won't blow up next season...let alone in a different environment 7 or 8 years from now.

...and I don't care if the mock drafts and experts say that this is a weak draft. They say that every year. It's always a two horse race behind Yao and Williams or LeBron and Carmelo or Bogut and Williams. People consistently overlook the Chris Pauls, Paul Pierces, and Dwayne Wades of every draft.

Say what you want and believe what you want. Iverson will slow down and some of these guys being drafted today will be the faces of the leauge when he does. At which time, people - much like yourself - will say how stupid it was for (insert team) to trade (insert raw player)...they'll all be scratching their heads wondering how these players were passed around like popcorn.

[Johnnybravo4]

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You have no idea what they'll do. At not even 3 NBA years old combined, you are telling me that you can assess their value over a 10 - 15 year period? You could be completely wrong to say that Childress won't blow up next season...let alone in a different environment 7 or 8 years from now.

...and I don't care if the mock drafts and experts say that this is a weak draft. They say that every year. It's always a two horse race behind Yao and Williams or LeBron and Carmelo or Bogut and Williams. People consistently overlook the Chris Pauls, Paul Pierces, and Dwayne Wades of every draft.

Say what you want and believe what you want. Iverson will slow down and some of these guys being drafted today will be the faces of the leauge when he does. At which time, people - much like yourself - will say how stupid it was for (insert team) to trade (insert raw player)...they'll all be scratching their heads wondering how these players were passed around like popcorn.

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To quote Samuel L. Jackson.. "I don't care about no MFin If's."

I know right now that A.I. is a Hall of Famer. He is in his prime.

Hall of famer + young talent=Playoffs...i.e the Miami Heat.

Young talent + projects= Lottery. Ask the LA CLippers, they have 30 years of experience.

[Wretch]

Iverson is not in his prime. No matter how loud or how many times you say it.

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Hall of famer + young talent=Playoffs...i.e the Miami Heat.

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Iverson never had and never will have the impact of Shaq, at any stage in their careers. Moreover, Mike Woodson has nowhere near the coaching experience of Pat Riley.

You are talking about two different teams. Iverson + JJ does not = Shaq + Wade. That is laughably imbalanced. As is the coaching, as is the supporting cast, as is their combined experienced. It just doesn't add up. Sorry.

[Diesel]

Before Shaq, Miami couldn't fill their arena consistently....

They nixed the waiting game with Caron Butler, Odom, etc, and got the proven championship quality player.. and guess what.. They won it all.

We have enough players that we're waiting to get out of the crib. Let's get a proven championship quality player.. and try to win.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Iverson is not in his prime. No matter how loud or how many times you say it.

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Hall of famer + young talent=Playoffs...i.e the Miami Heat.

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Iverson never had and never will have the impact of Shaq, at any stage in their careers. Moreover, Mike Woodson has nowhere near the coaching experience of Pat Riley.

You are talking about two different teams. Iverson + JJ does not = Shaq + Wade. That is laughably imbalanced. As is the coaching, as is the supporting cast, as is their combined experienced. It just doesn't add up. Sorry.

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Do you or do you now agree that JJ and A.I. is the best backcourt in the NBA...at least potentially?

If so then in a league with zone defenses and hand check rules, guards have become the most important position in the NBA. Dwayne Wade proved in the finals that having a transcendent guard makes the difference. We'd arguable have 2.

Add to that that we would have probably the most athletic front court in the NBA, with a young center that can score and rebound. We add a defensive big man with exceptions and there you have it.

[Diesel]

I'm not for giving away the pick... hell we can't do that anyway...

However, I would trade Marvin, Lue, and all the capspace in the world and even an exchange of picks for AI...

I look at that as a move that would help our future..

AI is a 3 yr move. Of course after year 2 with AI we start to look at other PGs if we don't have one on the way. However, we can't just ignore the great benefits that Ai would have on our team.

Mainly:

Identity

Visibility

Winning

Etc.

for those who says that he doesn't fit... Show me why not.

He and JJ are made to play together.

Having Iverson here would make JJ a 23 ppg SG.

[Wretch]

You believe that impact of Iverson = the impact of Shaq?

[Diesel]

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You believe that impact of Iverson = the impact of Shaq?

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In ticket and merchandise sales.. Oh Hell Yes. Probably greater.

As far as winning, I think that Ai would give us the best Backcourt in the game.

Better than Wade/White Chocolate.

Better than Nash/??

Better than JT/Harris

Better than Parker/Ginobili

Better than Kobe/Parker.

Better than Allen/Ridenour

Better than James/Hughes.

Because our guys would compliment each other so well.

IF we could get the deal done and somehow end up with Shelden Williams or Cedric Simmons, I think that our team would be very hard to beat.

[DJlaysitup]

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You believe that impact of Iverson = the impact of Shaq?

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Comparably speaking I think it could. The Hawks are starting from alot lower down than the Magic was when they got Shaq. Shaq made an average team great...AI would make a bad team good.

[Wretch]

I'm not arguing his talent. I love AI. And you are right about what our backcourt would be like as well as how good our front court is - though we will have to give up some of that to get AI.

Adding the bigs is where it gets tricky. We'll be giving up that #5 pick so nix that. If we don't get Philly's 13 in the proposed trade, nix that avenue too. Either way, it will take time for a drafted big to develop. Time that works against Iverson.

The real course of action would be to look at FA'cy. Who do you go after though? Everybody is loooking for bigs. You don't just "go out and get a big." There has to be one, he has to be worth a damn, then you have to be sure you can get him. KMart? Dampier? Dally? I've heard this talk over and over again.

But you are not just advocating finding one serviceable big. You are talking about TWO. It's not impossible, but either drafting or FA signing will take time...and it will take time for the team to jell. Again, time that works against AI.

I love the idea of JJ and Iverson. I think they'd light it up. But it doesn't stop anyone from walking down the middle of the paint on us. We can score. Just about anyone in the league can score, but defense has been an ongoing issue with this team for years. Iverson doesn't solve that and giving up draft picks doesn't help.

I don't like Merry-Go-Rounds, so I'll just leave it here. If AI could be had for #5 and Marvin/Chill, then we'll mark this thread for future conversation. In 3 or 4 years when Iverson is still smokin' and Marvin, Chill, and our potential #5 are all mediocre at best - you and Diesel can ressurect this thread and throw it in my face. Today I don't think it is worth the risk.

I'm a HUGE AI fan, I'm not interested in bringing him here for a package of our young guys and picks. Not interested at all.

[ATLBob]

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Hall of famer + young talent=Playoffs...i.e the Miami Heat

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Umm ... who exactly are the Heat's 'young' talents. Wade is not just a young talent, he's one of the top three players in the entire league right now. Who else would you rather have taking shots in the final minutes of the Finals?

Udonis Haslem? He played surprisingly well against Dirk, and his offense in Game 6 was a big lift, but ...

Okay, who else? Oh wait, the entire rest of the team consists of veterans who at one point or another have been key cogs, or the key player, on their previous teams: Shaquille, 'Zo (two of the best centers of their era btw), 'Toine, JWill, Gary Payton (one of the greatest PGs of all time), James Posey (very underrated player). Then, not in this categroy, but I think the only other player that got in a game was Shandon Anderson, another veteran.

How does this team even somewhat resemble the current Hawks+AI?

It doesn't. Not at all. Not even close.

Look, I'm not disputing that AI wouldn't make this team much better. But our needs are much greater than one aging scorer, no matter how well he can score. Besides, do you really think that AI, at this point in his career, would maintain a good attitude about going to the rebuilding Hawks. He's gonna be excited about this opportunity? He'll come in and work hard and make everyone better? How, by skipping practice?

History suggests that no such thing will happen. I love to watch AI play. But if we traded for him, he would not be happy, he would not cooperate, he would not save our franchise. We'd be more watchable, yes, but not only for the reasons you seem to think.

BK is absolutely correct on this one. Trading for AI is not good for the Hawks, and it isn't good for AI.

[Wretch]

I don't doubt the ticket sales. I also don't doubt the worth of that backcourt. Being an AI fan, it makes me tingle. But I think we're comparing apples to oranges. Shaq is a dominant, one of the most dominant, INSIDE presence. On the glass and in the paint, he changes the game (on both ends of the floor) and opens it up for everyone else. AI brings penetration, oustide shooting, and some perimeter defense.

They will have different kinds of impacts. Especially considering that we will have to find another coach - Woody HAS to go - and a better supporting cast.

[Diesel]

Well, you don't have to go with said comparison for the sakes of on the floor. However, our FRANCHISE struggles with everything from merchandise sales to TV contracts... Pretty soon, you'll be watching Hawks Basketball on the videobox channel.

As far as on the court play. With no pick next year. We have to be able to win while developing. I think it's easier to do with a superstar talent and a backcourt that's hard to stop.

[ATLBob]

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He and JJ are made to play together.

Having Iverson here would make JJ a 23 ppg SG.

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Yo, JJ scored 20.2 pts per game last year while settling into a new role as a #1 option. Placing his projected production at 23 ppg next year, a grand total increase of 2.8 ppg, isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.

In fact, AIs presence might have a negative impact on JJs ppg. It wouldn't make the team worse, but I'm not sure how making JJ a 2nd option will increase his production.

[drzachary]

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He and JJ are made to play together.

Having Iverson here would make JJ a 23 ppg SG.

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Yo, JJ scored 20.2 pts per game last year while settling into a new role as a #1 option. Placing his projected production at 23 ppg next year, a grand total increase of 2.8 ppg, isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.

In fact, AIs presence might have a negative impact on JJs ppg. It wouldn't make the team worse, but I'm not sure how making JJ a 2nd option will increase his production.

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It probably would increase his production, but it would probably increase his efficiency (less doubleteams.)