Is this the team envisioned after the nuclear op?

[Guest Walter]

After tearing down, making trade after trade to dump quality to star players for a mid 1st rd draft pick here and there, spending 4 mid and 3 top 1st rd draft picks, and cap space...is this the team we were after?

Seriously. Is this remotely the team we bargained for?

I believe BK thinks so. BK has abandoned drafting for BPA and sought a (under-height and length) defensive specialist with a top 5 draft pick. We are getting a high quality BU Pg (with no upside), likely to give them starting opportunities. All great additions if you are an established playoff contender. However, these moves do not begin to make a contender.

This team has simply far too many holes and liabilities that can't be fixed without bold moves. It's great to want this team to succeed, and we all do, but does anyone really consider this team working toward title contention?

We're undersized with a suspect starter at Pg (Speedy), no legit post scoring option, either severely undersized and underskilled at Pf if SW is at center or underskilled if SW is not, given his limited offensive ability, and while there are other problems including questionable coaching the most serious is the lack of superstar potential.

I just don't see how a team who managed to bench it's highest draft pick ever with its following draft selection is in a good position regardless of any minor move. Do people really think this is a contendign team?

If not our window is all but closing. Next year no draft pick, the following we'll be capped out and/or begin losing young talent. This team is seriously flawed and a hard team to swallow after years of rebuilding and vast capitol with which to do so.

In short, I called for dramatic changes this offseason and BK has chosen a very high lottery role player, a good BU Pg, and ??? (can't be much without packaging) for Al. How can anyone think this enough?

W

[chillzatl]

All I hear is you bitching because of YOUR opinion of the skill levels of a few of our players. You have your opinions on both Marvin and Sheldons skill level and it's obviously very low. Not everyone, and I would say, most everyone, doesn't agree with you. So I don't think you're going to find a lot of people who agree with your doom and gloom outlook.

Are we contenders? Contendners for what? The championship? THere's nothing we could have done this year that would have made us one. Are we contenders for the playoffs? If the logic behind what we've done pans out, absolutely and that's where you have to start.

You don't build a team from the ground up and go from 13 wins to a championship with the same roster you started with.

[Admin]

of the moves that the team has made. I (and I am sure others) had no idea that you felt this way. Thank you for this enlightening post into your position on the state of the team.

I guess those of us that disagree with you are seeing something completely different. I for one see superstar potential in Smoove, Marvin, and JJ. One or all of them may realize it ... then again maybe none of them will. I also see Speedy and Shelden as solid, ready to contribute players. After Cassell there isnt a PG available who could help us more than Speedy can. Sure he isnt perfect, but he isnt nearly as bad as you seem to believe. At #5 there wasnt anyone available who would have been a better pick. You could argue for Foye and Roy, but honestly neither of them are PGs and JJ isnt a PG either so they would be duplicating positions as well. Shelden was the right pick. Could we have moved down and gotten him, who knows. Maybe the T-Wolves and Celtics were serious about taking him theirselves. You may not agree with what BK has done (in fact its clear that you dont) but at least he has us under the cap with several potential superstars on the roster and some good quality role players in addition to them.

[Peoriabird]

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In short, I called for dramatic changes this offseason and BK has chosen a very high lottery role player, a good BU Pg, and ??? (can't be much without packaging) for Al. How can anyone think this enough?

W

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You are right, We should have signed Peja & Jackson, traded for Chandler. That was $130 mil well spent! But seriously I don't what you could have done differently with the draft. O.K. people will continue to talk about Paul instead of Williams but how does that help your interior. Plus who knows, Paul plateau might be a little higher than Claxton say like Kenny Anderson. Childress, Igodala, Deng, Al Jefferson is there much difference. Smoove > JR Smith or Jamir Nelson. Would you have taken another big man over Shelden or would you have taken a guard. We can't talk about trades because some of those Royal Ivey for Shaq trades most likely wouldn't happen. So give me you alternative drafts. You even have the advantage of seeing how the players turn out from 3 years ago

[Guest Walter]

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All I hear is you bitching because of YOUR opinion of the skill levels of a few of our players. You have your opinions on both Marvin and Sheldons skill level and it's obviously very low.

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All our young talent plays essentially 2 positions, skill level doesn't translate at all from the bench or well out of position.

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Not everyone, and I would say, most everyone, doesn't agree with you. So I don't think you're going to find a lot of people who agree with your doom and gloom outlook.

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Chill, who on this team is a (potential) superstar able to direct this team to a title? If we are not serious playoff contenders this year, whom do you hold responsible? BK's moves were designed to make us better THIS YEAR. A fully developed high lotto interior defender and a good BU vet Pg. Neither of those indicate POTENTIAL and are designed to fill perceived gaps in the team's make-up NOW not build a team for later. BK MUST see this team as an almost finished product or else he wouldn't abandon his draft philosophy and acquire an additional role player.

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Are we contenders? Contendners for what? The championship? THere's nothing we could have done this year that would have made us one.

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Precisely, and the moves made this year get us no closer to being contenders for a title 3 years from now. There is far too little potential left in either player acquired this offseason, this team continues to lack a superstar, there are far too many remaining holes, and BK has traded away future capitol to solve both.

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Are we contenders for the playoffs? If the logic behind what we've done pans out, absolutely and that's where you have to start.

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It's not always a logical progression; first playoffs, then title. While one has to acheive playoffs first, reaching the playoffs does not indicate legitimate potential for contending for a title. If you draft and sign role players over better talent, however important they are to a playoff team, they are a loss on a team well away from the playoffs.

In short the order goes like this, you first have to get the talent capable of contending for a title including a legitimate potential superstar (or 2...), then you develop those players and they reach the playoffs, then you supplement them towards title contention. We've already begun supplementing them as if we had enough talent and we've done so while further creating a forward glut. This is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR from ideal.

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You don't build a team from the ground up and go from 13 wins to a championship with the same roster you started with.

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Then make a bold move rather than draft and sign role players for a previously 26 win team.

W

[chillzatl]

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All our young talent plays essentially 2 positions, skill level doesn't translate at all from the bench or well out of position.

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We have two forwards (marvin and smooth) and one G/F (childress). Yes, someone will have to come off the bench. But it's about minutes and role, not about whether you start or not.

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Chill, who on this team is a (potential) superstar able to direct this team to a title?

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That's a dumb question Walter. We only have one legit "star" player on our roster and even in his case, we don't know how much better he can be. He could be capped at what we saw last year, though I doubt it, or he could continue to improve. We have no idea how good Marvin, Smooth or Sheldon will become.

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If we are not serious playoff contenders this year, whom do you hold responsible? BK's moves were designed to make us better THIS YEAR.

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I blame nobody. We aren't really expected to be a "serious" playoff contender this year. It's just a goal that I think is possible and BK's moves were obviously intended to make us better. But to link the two and suggest that it was an all or nothing, playoffs or bust move is ridiculous. We have players whom he and others feel are star-potential players (JJ, Marvin, Smooth, etc) and he's filling in the gaps around them because he feels that it's time to stop grabbing raw talent and start winning. It's the natural progression of a team that started at ground-zero as we did.

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Precisely, and the moves made this year get us no closer to being contenders for a title 3 years from now.

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Only in your doom and gloom world and only becuase you undervalue the talent and potential of some of our young guys.

[Guest Walter]

This year I would have most definately chosen Roy. Portland has already named him their summer league starting Pg, he's by far the better all around talent and basketball player over SW, and I think as a distributing 2 he would fit nicely alongside JJ. Simply, 1-dimensional defensive role players are much easier to come by and don't cost such high picks.

However, I would have definately looked to trade for a player with legit superstar potential (Bargnani) as I see it as our most glaring need.

People here want to believe that MW will become a superstar but he put up meager numbers for a #2 pick, doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly necessary. JS has a better chance but he doesn't resemble a goto superstar but rather a stat stuffer star. I just don't see JJ pushing us over any top whatever you want to call him.

BK seems content with our talent level. He's acquiring (albeit good) role players now. I think this is a huge mistaken 180 degree turn in philosophy.

W

W

[Peoriabird]

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This year I would have most definately chosen Roy. Portland has already named him their summer league starting Pg, he's by far the better all around talent and basketball player over SW, and I think as a distributing 2 he would fit nicely alongside JJ. Simply, 1-dimensional defensive role players are much easier to come by and don't cost such high picks.

However, I would have definately looked to trade for a player with legit superstar potential (Bargnani) as I see it as our most glaring need.W

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So how could you have gotten Roy and Bargnani? And give me you roster after 3 years.

[TheDude]

Same wins, Less money.

More money available, better talent can buy.

More talent bought, better chance at championship.

Word.

[tmac13]

"This year I would have most definately chosen Roy. Portland has already named him their summer league starting Pg, he's by far the better all around talent and basketball player over SW, and I think as a distributing 2 he would fit nicely alongside JJ. Simply, 1-dimensional defensive role players are much easier to come by and don't cost such high picks."

Being named Portlands starting summer league point guard is some claim to greatness?..And...Why is Roy by far the better talent?..Says who?..You?...Roy is a 2, he was a 2 in college, and will have to learn the point..Roy also has a history of injury that is scary...

Sheldon was just named our summer league starting pf..Does that make you happy?

[Peoriabird]

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Sheldon was just named our summer league starting pf..Does that make you happy?

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Don't antagonize Walter yet. I want to see his roster after 3 years of drafting.

[chillzatl]

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Simply, 1-dimensional defensive role players are much easier to come by and don't cost such high picks.

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Tell that to the Chicago Bulls and Ben Wallace.

[sick_five]

Yep, it's time to turn in your GM application to all the teams in the NBA. Real Men of Genius welcomes Walter, Mr. Know-It-All Armchair GM Basketball Guy!

It's so much easier to second guess than it is to plan and make moves that are realistic. Anyone can sit here and say they would do this, this, and this... but to be in the GMs seat and man the phones, work out deals, woo free agents, and decide who's best for you franchise on draft day is a different story.

So what bold move do you suggest, Walter? I mean, really, work out a trade, figures and all, and call up Billy and the other respected GM and see if they agree, or not laugh.

I don't agree with everything Knight has done, but I do realize that it's only been 2 years. The Hawks haven't played a game yet in year 3, so no one really knows how well the team will come together, but you don't build a championship from scratch in 3 years when you start over. Especially when you have the youngest roster in the NBA.

I do know, though, that the quick-fix, bold move types often fail, and set the franchise back further, a la Babcock. Yes, there are "exceptions" as you like to say, but really, it doesn't happen that often. Check ou the teams that have the most dominant over the last few years... Detroit and San Antonio have kept their cores together for a long time, which is what Billy is doing. Not to mention, most of our core is under 24.

Smoove and Marvin are younger than some of this year's draft class, but you're certain that neither will be superstars, because??? You need to take a vacation and relax. The only thing you obcessive negativity will do is put you in a bad mood.

[Peoriabird]

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Yep, it's time to turn in your GM application to all the teams in the NBA. Real Men of Genius welcomes Walter, Mr. Know-It-All Armchair GM Basketball Guy!

It's so much easier to second guess than it is to plan and make moves that are realistic. Anyone can sit here and say they would do this, this, and this... but to be in the GMs seat and man the phones, work out deals, woo free agents, and decide who's best for you franchise on draft day is a different story.

So what bold move do you suggest, Walter? I mean, really, work out a trade, figures and all, and call up Billy and the other respected GM and see if they agree, or not laugh.

I don't agree with everything Knight has done, but I do realize that it's only been 2 years. The Hawks haven't played a game yet in year 3, so no one really knows how well the team will come together, but you don't build a championship from scratch in 3 years when you start over. Especially when you have the youngest roster in the NBA.

I do know, though, that the quick-fix, bold move types often fail, and set the franchise back further, a la Babcock. Yes, there are "exceptions" as you like to say, but really, it doesn't happen that often. Check ou the teams that have the most dominant over the last few years... Detroit and San Antonio have kept their cores together for a long time, which is what Billy is doing. Not to mention, most of our core is under 24.

Smoove and Marvin are younger than some of this year's draft class, but you're certain that neither will be superstars, because??? You need to take a vacation and relax. The only thing you obcessive negativity will do is put you in a bad mood.

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Come on guys, let the man talk! Where is your team Walter?

[Guest Walter]

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We have two forwards (marvin and smooth) and one G/F (childress). Yes, someone will have to come off the bench. But it's about minutes and role, not about whether you start or not.

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Chill and MW sat last year. SW is to take Al's place. Chill and MW both sit this year. That's a #6 and #2 pick sitting when we have Speedy and ZaZa as our bookends.

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We have no idea how good Marvin, Smooth or Sheldon will become.

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I think we all have a pretty good idea that while "anything can happen" you wouldn't want to hinge your franchise's future on one of them becoming a goto superstar, particularly when one of them must be benched to allow for the other two to fully develop.

Of the 3 JS has the highest upside, but it appears to be as a stat stuffing Sf and not a goto variety. That's very good but I'm doubtful that wins you titles.

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If we are not serious playoff contenders this year, whom do you hold responsible? BK's moves were designed to make us better THIS YEAR.

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I blame nobody. We aren't really expected to be a "serious" playoff contender this year...It's the natural progression of a team that started at ground-zero as we did.

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Utterly incongruous! We aren't expected to be playoff contenders but BK is drafting and signing as if we are?!? That makes sense.

Chill, it is very interesting that you accuse me of undervaluing the talent of our young players. Generally, fan-sites OVER-VALUE players. Perhaps, I'm valuing them about right, but in the context of a fan-site where MW's rookie year generally is somehow very encouraging when it comes to superstar potential my opinion is outside the bell-curve of extreme fan-dom.

W

[Peoriabird]

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Utterly incongruous! We aren't expected to be playoff contenders but BK is drafting and signing as if we are?!? W

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Where is your team Walter? Give us your alternatives to BK's draft choices

[Guest Walter]

Traded Chill and #5 for him.

Traded MW for Livingston.

Livingston/Lue

JJ/later acquired role playing Sg/Sf

JS

Bargnani

ZaZa/defensive role playing big

or

ANY of the 3 franchise Pgs last year

JJ

JS

Bargnani

ZaZa/Defensive role playing big

W

[Peoriabird]

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Traded Chill and #5 for him.

Traded MW for Livingston.

Livingston/Lue

JJ/later acquired role playing Sg/Sf

JS

Bargnani

ZaZa/defensive role playing big

or

ANY of the 3 franchise Pgs last year

JJ

JS

Bargnani

ZaZa/Defensive role playing big

W

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So these are playoff teams?

[Guest Walter]

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Being named Portlands starting summer league point guard is some claim to greatness?

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It's an immediate claim to the Pg position (they have other young Pg options). Roy averaged more dimes than his team's Pgs. I'd say he's a good enough distributor along with everything else.

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..And...Why is Roy by far the better talent?..Says who?..You?...

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Uhh, everyone. When you ANNOUNCE publically whom you are selecting and NOBODY tries to trade above you or with you for that player, maybe you are reaching, ya think?

Roy is the consensus better player. To not know that is lame. While being the "consensus better player or prospect" doesn't mean everything, it does mean that regardless of whether or not BK went with the consensus he's gotten it wrong with his high draft picks that matter most.

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Sheldon was just named our summer league starting pf..Does that make you happy?

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If JS on the team, MW is a BU summer league player. I fail to see the brilliance of this plan.

W

[Lascar78]

Chill + #5 for a #1

Marvin for Livingston

we can all make great teams with fantasy trades that would never happen. Why not Al for Lebron? Or hell Marvin for Dwight Howard.

You bring up Marvin for Livingston in everyone of these topics when everyone with half a brain knows that the clips would not trade Livingston for Marvin. He has just as much potential as Marvin, plays a harder position to fill, and his height will always create mismatches. Give it up. If you think you're so smart, at least come up with trades that could happen.

Unfortunately BK actually has to get other GMs to agree to trades. I'm pretty sure we're all awesome GM's on NBA Live.