Not sure what's true or not true...

[Guest Walter]

...but considering we gave up TWO 1st rd picks (one top ten?) and a 1st rd player in Diaw for a resigned JJ, we should expect more than Banana Foster. That's 3, 1st rd picks for a/an (albeit better but) similarly young player who had indicated he would not outright resign with his team and whose team couldn't easily afford to match the offer (an option we don't have in this case). Still, we're discussing Foster? Doesn't Batista offer what Foster does only tougher with more potential upside?

Maybe there is a 1st thrown in. Maybe Jariviskus (I would like to see what he can do in another setting). Maybe just cash (gulp, because we likely can't send it given ownership considerations). Regardless, I feel dissappointed the most coveted remaining FA isn't rumored to be worth more.

W

[Lascar78]

wtf does the JJ SNT (which brought back our best player since Nique) have to do with what we can get for Al on the free agent market?

Nothing.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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wtf does the JJ SNT (which brought back our best player since Nique) have to do with what we can get for Al on the free agent market?

Nothing.

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Nothing my arse.

While JJ was a RFA, Pheonix couldn't afford him at our up front price. We paid the high "market price" of 3, good 1st rd draft picks for him (See Kenyon). Al may be an UFA and a tier below JJ, but he's not 2 higher draft picks less valuable than he is.

W

[Vafan]

I concur. Just a weak attempt by Walter to take a shot at BK

[CBAreject]

I know. JJ was restricted, so it's not the same thing at all. We can't really bluff IND off their hand. Deals for restricted FA's are always a lot bigger than those for unrestricted.

[KB21]

Yeah.

Look at the sign and trade that happened between Indiana and New Orleans. Indiana basically signed and traded Peja to New Orleans for a center that will never see a game in the NBA and a trade exception.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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Yeah.

Look at the sign and trade that happened between Indiana and New Orleans. Indiana basically signed and traded Peja to New Orleans for a center that will never see a game in the NBA and a trade exception.

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The difference is NO could sign Peja to their max without a SNT, Indy couldn't sign Al to more than the Mid level EX without our help, something I don't see Al agreeing to. We are the only means Al remotely gets a deal he can live with. Not so with Indy and Peja.

W

[Lascar78]

two different offseasons (markets), two different players (JJ has a lot more potential, no bad knees, and plays D), two different trading partners, one was a RFA that the team could afford to match at least temporarily, while Al is UFA.

It is ridiculous to compare two different SNT's from different offseasons and judge them relative to each other. Makes no sense. Each offseason is its own isolated market.

Not to mention that we didn't give up 3 first rounders, we gave 2 (one wasn't ours), and a player that was completely useless here and would have walked. Would we have traded Diaw for a first if we could? Hell yes because Diaw was useless to us, and a first would have been much more useful for our team.

This thread is retarded.

Why don't you just write what you mean to write behind the smoke screen: you hate BK and wanted to bash him again.

[exodus]

Quote:

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you hate BK and wanted to bash him again.

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Or maybe he is suffering from withrawal. Hard to hate on Marvin since he has been the best player at the RMR.

[Guest Walter]

...and I believe that unless he builds a playoff team this year his time is (and should be) up, but I don't "hate" BK by any means.

Similarly, I would still do the JJ trade and have stated such. I felt we were in a dire position to get a landmark FA.

All that being said, I still believe a signed and traded Al, given we are the ONLY means by which he gets a deal reasonable to him, is worth more than cash considerations or Foster or a (likely) well protected pick. It would take Harrison or a good combination of a 1st and Foster to suggest to me we are getting Al's worth.

Now is that evidence of any hate of BK or is your response evidence of your blatant hate.

W

[Popeye]

Hey Walter I read on RealGm that they ignored you because you have a negative attitude and hate on everyone.

They said now you are over at Hawksquawk posting all these negative posts and that they feel sorry for Squawkers cause of you.

I didn't make that up that's what i read.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

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wtf does the JJ SNT (which brought back our best player since Nique) have to do with what we can get for Al on the free agent market?

Nothing.

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Joe Johnson is not better than Smitty until he leads the team to some winning. It's unfairly to say JJ is better when he's never lead a team to a winning record.

[Packfill]

Quote:

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two different offseasons (markets), two different players (JJ has a lot more potential, no bad knees, and plays D), two different trading partners, one was a RFA that the team could afford to match at least temporarily, while Al is UFA.

It is ridiculous to compare two different SNT's from different offseasons and judge them relative to each other. Makes no sense. Each offseason is its own isolated market.

Not to mention that we didn't give up 3 first rounders, we gave 2 (one wasn't ours), and a player that was completely useless here and would have walked. Would we have traded Diaw for a first if we could? Hell yes because Diaw was useless to us, and a first would have been much more useful for our team.

This thread is retarded.

Why don't you just write what you mean to write behind the smoke screen: you hate BK and wanted to bash him again.

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I think the JJ trade was ultimately a good one for the Hawks but to say Diaw was "useless" to us says alot more about the inadequacies of our coaching staff then it does about Diaw.

[sd79]

I agree with W. Come on Al is a 19/7 player and he's only 26.

Why are you so keen on getting Foster? The guy is almost 30, he can't score, he can't block... the only thing he's good at is rebounding.

We should at least get Harrison (who has some upside), some filler and a 1st rounder. Too bad the Pacers don't have any other intersting, available players.

What about Marquis Daniels? Could he be included? He could play some PG minutes...

[Lascar78]

maybe so, but last I checked, Woody is still our coach. Therefore Diaw would have been useless for us. He needed a change of scenery, a euro-system, and a coaching staff that would baby him and continually pat him in the back (2 time mvp doesn't hurt either). He would have had none of those things here.

[mountain_jim]

Sekou implied last night no way they are giving up Harrison

[Packfill]

I don't consider Woody still being our coach a good thing. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

[Lascar78]

I think you're missing my point.

I'm not saying that it's a great thing that woody is our coach.

I'm saying that clearly Diaw couldn't get it done at ALL under Woody - refused to shoot, couldn't hit open shots, couldn't handle being challenged by his coach etc... Therefore, given the fact that Woody was here to stay, Diaw was useless to us.

Regardless of your opinion of Woody, he's here, and therefore Diaw was useless to us. Losing him was not like losing a first rounder. If Diaw had stayed, he would have continued to play poorly and eventually walked for nothing.

[drzachary]

Exactly.. the error seems to be assuming that the value of players we give up is equal to their value on their new teams.

[Nicholasp27]

yup

i've stated time and time again

a) diaw was one of my favorite hawks players (i had hope that he'd shoot one day)

b) i wanted to trade diaw last spring/summer for ANYTHING that we could get (even a late 2nd) BECAUSE of the fact that he was NOT going to re-sign here when his contract was up; in fact, he was contemplating returning to France before his contract was up

so as much as i liked him, i knew he'd never make it as a hawk and never wanna remain a hawk, thus ANY trade we could do was ok with me; so getting JJ was amazing to me and I look at the trade as only having our 1st as the downside

if we had LEBRON right now and we knew he would NOT return to our team after this year, then I'd be ok with trading him, even tho otherwise he's the best player to have to start your franchise; u can't use situations that WON'T occur in your analysis

diaw was NOT gonna remain a hawk and was NOT gonna become a breakout star as a hawk, so that situation does not apply; him not being traded = leaving this summer; him being traded = jj

which is better? it doesn't matter how good he does since him staying here was NOT an option