Harrington SNT - Good or Bad

[Guest Walter]

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There are many people here who dislike things about our team

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And those individuals who in general agree with me don't take pot shots.

Lascar, I don't really care, I just think it's telling. You don't agree with me and neither of us back down from our position. That certainly does annoy you, but don't imply it isn't about our disagreeing. If I were to post often in agreement with your position you wouldn't give a d@mn about delivery.

W

[TexasPete]

If he agreed with you he would LOVE your delivery.

[mrhonline]

I have no desire to join this discussion/argument/whatever, but that's a pretty cheesingly funny picture.

I'll exit...this way.

[Lascar78]

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I have seen a number of NBA boards and this is by far the rudest I have seen.

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I find that hilarious coming from you. I've hardly dealt with you but you were probably the rudest poster right off the bat other than trolls who disappear. Consider some of your posts within days (or hours) of joining:

Antagonizing people who are ok with BK...

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Actually, we need a PG who stops dribble penetration before it starts. I know that's a novel concept for BK and some fans but it is what it is...

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... insulting half the population ...

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Of course Diesel is a raging liberal. All of his crazy arguments go up in flames the minute that logic enters the discussion. Logic is to liberals...as water is to fire. One extinguishes the other...

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... insulting mrHonline

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MRH, I have read a number of posts of yours and I can say that what you know about basketball would fit in a thimble ... You need a better basketball IQ before you come down on other people.

Now, go pour Billy a cup of coffee!

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... just to give a few quick examples in your first couple of days here. You have absolutely no room to talk when it comes to politeness

[exodus]

[Guest Walter]

I think he has the tools, but I simply don't see him as better than JS, I see them as both significantly better suited as Sfs, and I don't see pairing them together without a dominant 2-way center as good for the team. The MW selection was my first inclination that BK didn't know how to build a TEAM.

Mind you, I didn't like the Childress over Deng or Iggy pick either (loved the JS pick!!!), but it wasn't at a stage of rebuilding where many factors come into play. The MW pick was and BK blew it, not being sophisticated enough to make the right team building decision. The SW pick was simply a disaster, because under-height, under-reach, 1-dimensional bigs are a dime-a-dozen. Not even an ounce of trade value in SW.

W

[mrhonline]

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... insulting mrHonline

MRH, I have read a number of posts of yours and I can say that what you know about basketball would fit in a thimble ... You need a better basketball IQ before you come down on other people.

Now, go pour Billy a cup of coffee!

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Ouch. I forgot about that.

My feeling is hurt.

[Lascar78]

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You don't agree with me and neither of us back down from our position.

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Agreed, and I'm fine with it. I doubt there is a single poster here that I agree with 100%.

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That certainly does annoy you, but don't imply it isn't about our disagreeing. If I were to post often in agreement with your position you wouldn't give a

d@mn

about delivery.

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Clearly you don't believe me, but I swear to you that this is not the case.

Honestly.

Like Dr. Z said, I don't think you realize how often you post the same thing.

In every single thread you enter, regardless of what's being discussed, we get

-drafting marvin was a mistake

-smith is 25% better as proven by tendex per 48 and therefore will always be better

-we have to trade one now

-you can't have undersized guys at two neighboring positions

One or all of the above. In every damn thread. For like a year.

There are only a handful of people who I've seen post the same thing over and over (now or in the past) and they are:

-you post about marvin being a mistake, smith (and paul) being better, so we need to trade him

-Diesel posted about marvin being a mistake and a bust, although he seems to have finally slowed down on it since the end of the season

-KB agrees with anything BK does, and calls anyone who dares question him an idiot

-Sturt rants about Stern being a tyrant at the helm of a conspiracy, but don't call it a conspiracy. Although he seems to have slowed down on that and has been participating in general discussion recently

And of all of these, you are by far the one who has posted the single same thoughts the most times over and over. Diesel was right there too, but he made many different points all aimed at the same conclusion.

Any time somebody posts the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, it gets damn annoying, especially when it's plastered all over the place even where it doesn't belong. The fact that I don't agree with what you're spamming with certainly doesn't help, but the basic reason it is annoying is because of the spamming method, not the message.

I'm honestly not trying to argue more, I'm trying to move on. I'm trying to convey to you that it genuinely is the repetition of the same points that we all heard you make months and months ago that is extremely annoying, not the message itself. Repetition doesn't help get the message across, we all got your position when we first debated it months ago. I don't bring this up every time to talk trash, I bring it up in the hope that you'll get the point that we heard you loud and clear and that having the same argument time after time only brings this place down.

Let's move on and talk about new things.

[TexasPete]

Walter, I agree with you about SW. He has mistake written all over him. People diss Chad Ford but his comments about SW were on the money. It will also add insult to injury when Roy and Foye tear it up. We do have 3 SF's in JS, JC, and MW. The PF we just drafted can't start because he isn't close to ready. Solomon Jones also looks like a stretch when compared to guys who went after him or FA's like Allen Ray.

The bottom line is that BK's eye for talent that I hear about is a myth. I just hope this SNT trade with AL bears more fruit than a late 1st round pick.

Sorry, Lascar, I didn't mean to offend the BK lovers, the lovers of Solomon (yes, there are a few), or the Shelden supporters. I suppose they will have to learn how to get over it. Sorry, Exodus, its hard to get owned by a pair like you and Lascar who "master" the Hawks message board. I have a couple of suggestions for the two of you and you can take them how you want. I'm just trying to help. Here you go:

1. Try starting a business or something more demanding of your time. This board should be an outlet not a full time deal.

2. Try getting a better job if you can't start a business. When you actively post for 8 hours a day...you don't have a very stimulating existence. I'm sure your bank account reflects your post activity. You'll notice your funds go up...when your posts go down.

3. Try taking a few days off from the board if you can. When you back off you may find you can resist the temptatation to post 25 times a day.

4. Remember Exodus, guys who keep pictures ready to post in their sigs, ready for any situation, are fairly pathetic when you really think about it.

Because I actually make a living I'm out. Take my suggestions in the spirit that they are offered.

[Lascar78]

FYI you have more posts per day than me.

I guess it was easier to post a rude retort that to acknowledge the fact that you were the rude one from day 1 though. So good luck with that.

[exodus]

FYI i agree with you that SW was the wrong pick, as i have said many times. I agree with Walter that Marvin was the wrong pick, as I have said many times. However long term I think the Shelden pick may be the one that really hurts.

The difference is that I can disagree with a pick without showering hate on a player. You and Walter apparently cannot.

And anyone who tries to reference their jobs to help their argument obviously doesn't have an argument. Since moving back to Md I have had to take a job behind a computer. I don't plan on staying here long. I miss Atlanta but i had to come back for family reasons.

FYI the photos I post aren't from my computer. There is a free site called photobucket.com which hosts images. I have accumulated a few over the years that I thought were funny and it takes no time at all to pull one up.

I never did get into photoshoping pictures. I just take the ones other people do.

And be careful what you accuse someone of because it takes no time at all to pull up old posts. You haven't been here that long so you haven't seen how badly people's comments have come back to bite them.

Once Diesel went back several years to get KB.

[drzachary]

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4. Remember Exodus, guys who keep pictures ready to post in their sigs, ready for any situation, are fairly pathetic when you really think about it.

Because I actually make a living I'm out. Take my suggestions in the spirit that they are offered.

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Having pictures ready to post for any situation?

Wtf is wrong with that?

Again I ask you.. wtf?

[Seano]

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Larry Brown loved Jackie Butler, said he was better than Curry and we didn't even try..

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Agree completely on Butler. He's shown he has some talent, and is still just 21 years old. He would have been a really nice player to go ahead and take a flier on.

[exodus]

now i have another pic to add to my collection. Thanks.

[TexasPete]

I've been on vacation for two weeks. You can happily expect my count to drop sharply in the months ahead. Sorry, I know you look forward to my opinions.

[Guest Walter]

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The difference is that I can disagree with a pick without showering hate on a player. You and Walter apparently cannot.

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I do not think MW is or will be as good a prospect as JS & I believe MW more likely has greater trade value to us than as a very good yet less than JS Sf prospect that forces one of the two to play out of position.

How is this "hate" by any definition? I thought BK picking MW was the wrong decision as well but I don't dislike MW or believe he is not talented. I just don't want to continue living with the mistake. I want to rectify it. I would also like to rectify the even bigger mistake of drafting SW, but unlike MW he has absolutely NO trade value.

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think a lot of you totally miss the point about how this team is constructed for next season.

People say that we don't have a legit low-post offensive player, but I can name about 5 playoff teams that you can say that about.

- Dallas ( because Dampier and Diop were virtually useless unless someone passed them the ball at point blank range to the rim )

- Phoenix ( and no, Diaw didn't post people up . . he took people off the dribble from 12 - 15 feet on out )

- Chicago ( the team that we probably most resemble now. Sweetney is their premier post up guy . . ooooooo )

- Washington ( unless you count Brenden Haywood and Etan "the Hulk" Thomas as formidable low post options )

- Cleveland ( because Big Z would rather shoot 12 - 15 foot jumpers, instead of mixing it up on the inside. Gooden tried to be that presence on the inside though. )

- LA Lakers ( Kwame played well only because Diaw was guarding him. And even then, he'd find ways to blow lay-ups )

OK . . my bad. That's 6 teams.

The point is this. Even without a legit post player, the Hawks can be a very dangerous team next season. What we'll lose in the post, we'll gain via fast break points with Speedy leading the break. This team could become a very scary fast break team, with Smoove and Marvin filling the lanes . . even Childress for that matter.

Can Chill, Marvin, and Smoove make up Harrington's 19 ppg and 7 rebs.

LOL . . absolutely.

Even if we get numbers like 6 - 8 ppg and 5 - 6 rebounds from Shelden next year, that'll go a long way into covering up for Al.

It's funny though. Everytime Al has been "injured" at the end of the season, the Josh's have seemed to taken their games to that next level.

Let JJ do his thing with the great spot-up shooting and the drive and dish game he displayed last year. The Olympic experience should make him an even better player next season.

Let Chill and Marvin attack the rim every chance they get, and get to the line.

Let Smoove play his game, whether it be the "look at me, I can knock down the 20 foot jumper" or the "you better watch out because I'm coming down the lane to dunk on your head" game.

Let ZaZa do what he do . . shoot the ball, miss, get to the ball off the rim to pad his rebounding stats, miss again, get another rebound, and put the ball in the hole or go to the line.

Let Salim be the deadly spot up shooter who looks to score 13 points in 8 minutes.

Let Lue be Lue . . . the pretty damn good shooter from 18 feet on out, and get inside the lane on occasion and dish to the open man.

Let Shelden be the ultimate garbage man, grabbing the critical rebounds that we seemed to not get to last year. Shelden was too good of a player in college to be a non-factor for us next season. He'll be ready to go to battle on the court.

And let Speedy live up to his name, and run people to death while getting in the lane for easy lay-ups and finding our shooters, who are very good when open.

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The ONLY thing that concerns me about this team, is the interior defense. Offensively, we're going to be a damn good team overall, and a more efficient offensive team.

And look for this team to get to the FT line a lot more this year too.

And for God's sake people . . let Marvin PROVE TO YOU that he can't play in this league, or be a very good player. One season has NEVER made or broken a high lottery pick.

Dang. Even Darko gets the benefit of the doubt these days, seeing that he played halfway decent in Orlando. Yet, people are doubting Marvin on every turn.

They'll be the same people wearing #24 jerseys to Hawk games in the coming years.

[Guest Walter]

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- Dallas ( because Dampier and Diop were virtually useless unless someone passed them the ball at point blank range to the rim )

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Dirk can post up, but they simply have an overabundance of talent and a superstar which makes up for alot. They most definately can defend the post, something SW at 6'8" with his reach will not be able to do for us even at his high cost.

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- Phoenix ( and no, Diaw didn't post people up . . he took people off the dribble from 12 - 15 feet on out )

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Two words. Steve Nash. One more. Amare.

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- Chicago ( the team that we probably most resemble now. Sweetney is their premier post up guy . . ooooooo )

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While Woody talks a defensive game, Skiles has one. I don't understand the trade for Tyrus when they had drafted a great low post complement to either Chandler or Ben Wallace. Still, I'm not sure I want to be Chicago sans Skiles.

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- Washington ( unless you count Brenden Haywood and Etan "the Hulk" Thomas as formidable low post options )

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And Jamison.

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- Cleveland ( because Big Z would rather shoot 12 - 15 foot jumpers, instead of mixing it up on the inside. Gooden tried to be that presence on the inside though. )

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Big Z post up regularly. The fact that he can turn around J from the post doesn't mean he isn't posting up.

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- LA Lakers ( Kwame played well only because Diaw was guarding him. And even then, he'd find ways to blow lay-ups )

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One word. Kobe.

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Can Chill, Marvin, and Smoove make up Harrington's 19 ppg and 7 rebs.

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We were a 26 win team. They not only have to make up for Al's loss but explode beyond it. That's a whole lot to ask from them especially when two are not starting, one behind JJ and the other behind SW.

W

[exodus]

The reason you are a hater is because every post you make seems to be critical of Marvin. Go back and look at your posts and try to find one that ISN'T critical of Marvin.

If the topic is JJ you respond by criticizing Marvin.

If the thread topic is Woodson you respond by criticing Marvin.

If the thread topic is the dance team you respond by criticizing Marvin.

When he plays well for a game or series of games you completely ignore it. When he plays poorly you jump down his throat.

Every comment you make is like this;

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MW isn't nearly either (star or superstar) and many in the forum have us playing 3 and 4 players out of position to accomodate

his sorry ass

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D@MN

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the 2005 draft will haunt us forever

at this rate.

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click

Grow up and get over it.

I did my share of criticizing Marvin eary in the season. Finally I got tired of it and said I wouldn't mention Marvin again until he gave me a reason to through his play.

You on the other hand will continue your anti-Marvin diatribe in every thread regardless of how he plays. That is hate.

[Final_quest]

2 questions for Walter.

1. What do you make of Marvin's summer league play?

2. Do you expect the Hawks to win less or more next season?