Both Roy, Foye, and SW are 4 year college players

[Guest Walter]

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Brandon Roy and Randy Foye do not have nearly the potential to be a superstar that Marvin Williams has.

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When does it change from BPA to consider the team needs more, somewhere between the 2nd and 5th draft pick according to you KB? Is it the 3rd pick where potential becomes a bad word. The 4th pick when the clearly better player should be overlooked for positional needs. Or conveniently the 5th pick is precisely the point when potential and better take a backseat to KISSING BK'S ARSE!

You've been all over the spectrum on this issue, all conspicuously in defense of BK. In fact YOUR DEFENSE OF BK is the only consistent variable with any of your arguments. KB, "What did BK do? I defend that whole-heartedly." You wouldn't even say who you thought BK should draft this draft, afraid you'd have to eat your words or not be able to defend your BBall Buddha.

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It's not even close. The potential that Marvin Williams has far outweighs any need the team had at the time.

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JJ doesn't agree with you and he's played with both MW and Paul. Clearly calls it a mistake.

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There is no one in that draft that is in the same stratosphere when it comes to potential as Marvin.

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Fantasy or lie?

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Brandon Roy and Randy Foye do not bring that type of mega superstar ability, and therefore, ignoring a need to draft them is not warranted.

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I might disagree about Roy. He may only be a quiet star, but I think he'll be one and potentially more of one thean MW, but that is not the crux. MW wasn't better than Paul as a player or potential (as it stands), MW absolutely did not fit a need, and Paul fit a need. Roy (or Foye) are clearly better basketball players than SW and SW either benches MW or JS, comes off the bench, or plays as a midget center alongside 2, Sfs making him a lousy fit for a need (unlike Paul).

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The opportunity to draft a player like Marvin just doesn't come around very often. Marvin Williams would have been the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft.

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Gag. I mean. This is not Lebron or Carmello or Wade for that matter. This is Marvin-f***in'-Williams. The 5-6th highest rated HSer in his class, BU in college, with definate potential, good at many things, but great at none player who plays the easiest position in BBall to fill.

KB, quit trying to make the draft version of the Jordan rule the Marvin William's rule. It doesn't fly, period.

W

[AHF]

I think Paul is the obvious choice through the benefit of hindsight but I think you are misconstruing BK's argument if you think it is a matter of draft position. The #1 pick in some draft (like this year's) may not be as good as any of the top 5 prospects in another draft (like 2003). His argument is that a guy who has a chance to be a true star justifies ignoring need whereas more run of the mill prospects mean that you take need into consideration.

Incidently, I don't have much doubt that Marvin would have gone #1 overall in this draft.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Brandon Roy and Randy Foye do not have nearly the potential to be a superstar that Marvin Williams has.

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When does it change from BPA to consider the team needs more, somewhere between the 2nd and 5th draft pick according to you KB? Is it the 3rd pick where potential becomes a bad word. The 4th pick when the clearly better player should be overlooked for positional needs. Or conveniently the 5th pick is precisely the point when potential and better take a backseat to KISSING BK'S ARSE!

You've been all over the spectrum on this issue, all conspicuously in defense of BK. In fact YOUR DEFENSE OF BK is the only consistent variable with any of your arguments. KB, "What did BK do? I defend that whole-heartedly." You wouldn't even say who you thought BK should draft this draft, afraid you'd have to eat your words or not be able to defend your BBall Buddha.

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It's not even close. The potential that Marvin Williams has far outweighs any need the team had at the time.

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JJ doesn't agree with you and he's played with both MW and Paul. Clearly calls it a mistake.

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There is no one in that draft that is in the same stratosphere when it comes to potential as Marvin.

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Fantasy or lie?

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Brandon Roy and Randy Foye do not bring that type of mega superstar ability, and therefore, ignoring a need to draft them is not warranted.

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I might disagree about Roy. He may only be a quiet star, but I think he'll be one and potentially more of one thean MW, but that is not the crux. MW wasn't better than Paul as a player or potential (as it stands), MW absolutely did not fit a need, and Paul fit a need. Roy (or Foye) are clearly better basketball players than SW and SW either benches MW or JS, comes off the bench, or plays as a midget center alongside 2, Sfs making him a lousy fit for a need (unlike Paul).

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The opportunity to draft a player like Marvin just doesn't come around very often. Marvin Williams would have been the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft.

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Gag. I mean. This is not Lebron or Carmello or Wade for that matter. This is Marvin-f***in'-Williams. The 5-6th highest rated HSer in his class, BU in college, with definate potential, good at many things, but great at none player who plays the easiest position in BBall to fill.

KB, quit trying to make the draft version of the Jordan rule the Marvin William's rule. It doesn't fly, period.

W

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Tell that to the Portland Trail Blazers, because apparently Sam Bowie was the choice since they had Clyde and needed a big man. Who cares about that Jordan guy?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Shelden Williams was selected for three reasons:

#1 We were the 2nd worst defensive rebouding team in the league

#2 We were the 2nd worst team in points in the paint given up

#3 We were DEAD LAST in 3 point plays given up around the basket.

In other words, we couldn't stop anyone down low to save our lives.

Does this mean Shelden Williams is going to be our Ben Wallace and go on to win 4 DPOTY awards as the Landlord shuts down anyone that comes into the paint?

No. But it does mean we made a step in the right direction by adding a defensive presence who excels at blocking/contesting shots and pulling down boards. Not to mention he's a banger on the offensive end. Shelden may not be an offensive juggernaut but that's not what we needed. We needed the things he brings to the table that you just can't teach like hustle plays and sacrificing your body to force the turnover. That defensive energy he brings to this team will be contagious as he emerges as a vocal leader on this team defensively.

Thos are things that don't show up in the stat colums which is why looking at Roy/Foye's point production this year vs Shelden's won't tell the whole story.

Foye/Roy may specialize in putting the ball in the hoop but that's not what we were missing. This team wasn't offensively inept last year and it will be even better offensively because of the improvement of the core of this team alone. Offense wasn't the problem We needed to stop the other team from scoring especially down the stretch. Shelden Williams was by far the best option defensively when we were on the clock and in the entire draft.

Now that's not to say he will turn out to be the best defensive player in this draft, but we're not talking about hindsight. If we wanted help defensively it did not make sense to take any other player than the most polished defender in the draft who was a 2 time DPOTY that averaged 3 BPG for 3 consecutive years in the toughest conference in college basketball.

[Popeye]

Marvin was 5th or 6th best hschool player.

Tyrus Thomas was 100 and something i think and Adam Morrison 200th.

And nobody gave him a schoolarship except Gonzaga.

[chillzatl]

is [censored] and moan about our draft picks and how they were bad picks. Do you have ANYTHING else to talk about? Is it not possible for you to just shut up and let them play? As with Marvin, it's obvious to everyone here how you feel about Sheldon as a pick. Are you going to spend the next two months finding new and creative ways to say that Sheldon was a bad pick?

[KB21]

This is the practice of getting on a guy rumored to be going to the Hawks and fabricating a bunch of crap about that guy simply because Billy is picking him.

Remember, Walter is the one that was posting countless threads against drafting Chris Paul before last year's draft.

Also remember that when the rumors about Atlanta's interest in Randy Foye were going around, Walter was the one saying Foye wasn't worthy of a lottery pick. The Brandon Roy to Atlanta rumors never got going good, so Walter can act like he supported that pick. However, had Atlanta taken Brandon Roy, you would have seen Walter criticize them for duplicating a position.

Bascially, there was no right pick for the Hawks. Whoever they took, they were going to get criticized for it.

[Sothron]

Let's be honest here. If Shellhead Williams is a bust or was obviously not the player we thought he would be (BK at least) and Foye and Roy go on to have great rookie seasons this will be a bad decision by Knight. He didn't even work the guy out before drafting him.

[exodus]

[chillzatl]

obviously. But don't you think we should give the guy a season or heck, ONE GAME IN THE NBA, before we label him a bust? It's one thing to give a guy an opportunity to be a bust then call him one. It's another to constantly deride players and pre-label them busts becuase you don't like where they were picked.

[KB21]

Personaly, I could care less if they do put up numbers better than Shelden THIS YEAR. If Shelden gives us rebounding and interior defense, then we have fixed the biggest problem this team had last year.

There is no doubt in my mind that Brandon Roy and Randy Foye will be more productive in their current situations than they would have in Atlanta. Both will likely start on their teams. In Atlanta, neither one has a chance of starting over Joe Johnson.

[Sothron]

I'm not judging Shellhead until after his rookie season. He is the kind of the player that's supposed to be ready out of the box and good to go with his skillset. If he can't play defense/rebound etc as a rookie and its because of athletic ability then that's it. He won't get much better if its physical limitations.

I'm hoping he comes out and plays well since he's a Hawk. Some of the posters here who hate certain players (Walt, Diesel) need to realize we actually DO need these guys to play well in order to win a title. Call me crazy but I'd rather eat crow calling Shellhead a bust in the making and being proved WRONG than calling him or Marvin or whoever a bust and being proved RIGHT on some internet message board.

But hey, what do I know. Maybe Jesus gives you special cool points on a big chalkboard if you guess a guy is a bust or not that your team drafted.

[frosgrim]

Then you are a hypocrite. You know damn well that you went on a several month campaign describing why the Hawks should NOT draft Paul. You did statistical analyses of how bad Paul fared against larger point guards. You went around the boards saying no midget point guards.

This is not the first time you have gone on a rant and then been proven wrong:

- not being able to get rid of the bad contracts, esp. Glenn Robinson

- Drafting of Childress

- And your analysis of Pual’s performance

All these add up to you getting extremely worked up and it not playing out. You now, in hindsight, claim we should have drafted Pual and roast the Hawks in the process- this is the definition of hypocrite.

I will no longer listen to your continuous rants, which is too bad because I used to listen to what you had to say. Now all I see is chicken little crying about the sky falling. Its really sad.

[Diesel]

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I'm not judging Shellhead until after his rookie season.

He is the kind of the player that's supposed to be ready out of the box and good to go with his skillset. If he can't play defense/rebound etc as a rookie and its because of athletic ability then that's it. He won't get much better if its physical limitations.

I'm hoping he comes out and plays well since he's a Hawk. Some of the posters here who hate certain players (Walt, Diesel) need to realize we actually DO need these guys to play well in order to win a title.

Call me crazy but I'd rather eat crow calling Shellhead a bust in the making and being proved WRONG than calling him or Marvin or whoever a bust and being proved RIGHT on some internet message board.

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Hey Ron, didn't you say you're reserving your judgement?

See, what I see as extremely hypocritical here on HS and probably on RGM is that people are quick to jump on a guy who says that we should have standards for Marvin.. however, they applaud each other for saying the exact same thing about Shelden.

It's like you can judge Shelden, but Marvin has eternity before he can be judged.

My point is use the same standard with both guys.

Isn't it hypocritical for you to say that anyone who calls Marvin a Bust after 1 year is wrong and then have ~80% of the board calling Shelden a bust before he ever plays in his first NBA game?

All I see here on HS is Hypocrites.

[chillzatl]

What is hypocritical about saying that one guy, who has less overall experience and age (which relates to body development) is more deserving of more development time before passing your open judgement on him? I don't see anything hypocritical about that. Sheldon was drafted, admittedly by BK, because 1. he does what we need and 2. he's MORE ready to deliver today. Because of those things, it's not hypocritical to expect more of him than we did of a 19yo guy who had only one year of college play.

Perhaps you see it that way. But that is dealing in absolutes, which is a very unrealistic way to view ANYTHING in this world.

[oken]

boy do we have some haters dosing up on the haterade around here...

it needs to stop...

(not you chillz)...im just regarding this whole thread...

stop hatin

[exodus]

Help yourself to the Hawksquawk beverage of choice...

[drzachary]

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Help yourself to the Hawksquawk beverage of choice...

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Two image posts in one thread....

[Sothron]

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I'm not judging Shellhead until after his rookie season.

He is the kind of the player that's supposed to be ready out of the box and good to go with his skillset. If he can't play defense/rebound etc as a rookie and its because of athletic ability then that's it. He won't get much better if its physical limitations.

I'm hoping he comes out and plays well since he's a Hawk. Some of the posters here who hate certain players (Walt, Diesel) need to realize we actually DO need these guys to play well in order to win a title.

Call me crazy but I'd rather eat crow calling Shellhead a bust in the making and being proved WRONG than calling him or Marvin or whoever a bust and being proved RIGHT on some internet message board.

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Hey Ron, didn't you say you're reserving your judgement?

See, what I see as extremely hypocritical here on HS and probably on RGM is that people are quick to jump on a guy who says that we should have standards for Marvin.. however, they applaud each other for saying the exact same thing about Shelden.

It's like you can judge Shelden, but Marvin has eternity before he can be judged.

My point is use the same standard with both guys.

Isn't it hypocritical for you to say that anyone who calls Marvin a Bust after 1 year is wrong and then have ~80% of the board calling Shelden a bust before he ever plays in his first NBA game?

All I see here on HS is Hypocrites.

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This is the first time since 1997 when I created the username "Sothron" that anyone has ever called me Ron instead of Soth for short. I love it, seriously. Just had to comment on that.

To your point, if people recall up to the 2005 draft I was pushing heavily for Deron Williams to be our pick. I still believe that Deron would have been the best pick. He is a much better defensive PG than Paul and frankly he's just as good as Paul on offense.

But as for Marvin, you are talking about a 19 year old rookie in the NBA who got wildly inconsistent minutes in his rookie season versus a 23 (!) year old four year starting senior coming out of Duke. There's just no comparisons in expectation level between a guy you know you are drafting for potential versus a 23 year old "NBA ready" player who already has topped almost all of his potential.

I just do not understand the absolute fixation some people have in trying to trash Hawks players. If you saw my reaction after the 2006 draft on RGM boards you saw I was besides myself in our selection. I still hate it. However I am willing to suspend my belief that Shellhead was a huge mistake in lieu of giving him a chance to prove me wrong.

And I hope I am wrong.

Do some of you guys who really hate Marvin or whoever honestly want to see them do well as a Hawk? Or do you want them to fail so you can look good on a mesage board? I'm not going to call out names but you know who I am talking about. I honestly am curious if you guys were really honest what your answers would be.

[mrhonline]

On RealGM, Sothron said he would give Shellhead one year to prove him wrong. Personally, I'm going to wait a little longer, but I gladly accepted one year and shut up.

I'd take 20 games from TexasPete at this point...