Grading the GM's of the Hawks... (last 20+ Years)

[Diesel]

The GM is define as the guy who runs the day to day operations of the team. In our case, we have had three guys to be GM of this franchise over the last 20+ years. Today, I say, Let's grade them...

There are 5 categories: Draft, Trades, FA Acquisitions, Public Face, and PLAN.

STAN KASTEN

1. Draft.... 85%.

Kasten gets a fairly good grade in the draft. The reason being is that he put together really good teams with draft picks. He drafted Glenn Rivers. He drafted Spudd Webb, Big Dog Antoine Carr, Cousin Cliffy Levingston, etc. Plus, he knew how to draft over several rounds. His failing is that he also drafted Jon Koncak over Karl Malone. I guess there was something about having an engineering degree from SMU that Made Koncak so worthy?

2. FA Acquisitions.....60%.

I really don't think we did much free agent acquiring during those years of 1979-1990? We got both Moses Malone and Reggie Theus in their older age.

3. Trades.....90%

The man who traded John Drew, Freeman Williams, and 1 million dollars for Dominique! I don't think Kasten was every burned on a trade.

4. Public Face....70%.

As GM of the Hawks.. I'll give Kasten a 70%. He readily came out and stated that his main love is baseball and basketball is just something he does for Mr. Turner. I can remember many nights when Ted Turner was laid up sleep in the game and Kasten was nowhere to be found.

5. Plan.....92%.

As GM, he put together one of the best coaches with some of the best teams. From Dominique, Doc, and the rest.. to Dominique, Theus, and Moses Malone.

PETE BABCOCK

1. Drafts ............45%.

I don't think that Babcock's problem was a failure to identify talent... I think it's just that he wasn't able to do well picking mid to late rounds. However, he still messed up with good picks. Picking guys like Adam Keefe.. And I will never forget saying that Roy Marble was the next Jordan!

2. FA Acquisitions......90%.

The one name that sticks out on his resume' was Dikembe Mutombo. That was probably the best FA Acquisition he could have ever made. I have to penalize him a little bit for all those years we needed a Sf and he could not deliver.

3. Trades..........75%.

You would think this would be higher, but Babcock made some bad trades too..like:

Nique for Manning.

Smitty for JJ/JR.

Toni/#8 pick overall for Big Dog.

1st rounder/cash for Ken Norman.

2 1sts for Lazy Lo.

Tony Parker for 2nd rounder.

He made some good trades..

Robinson for Mookie.

Deke for Theo/Nazr/Toni

Kevin Willis for Smitty/Long.

Rooks/Webb for Laettner/PG... I can't recall exactly.

Augmon/Long for 2 first rounders...cleared room for Deke.

LazyLo/Brevin/#3 pick for Shareef/#20 pick.

4. Public Face......80%.

Babcock was just too open. He would have open chats online about the team. There was no secret moves. I think some people took advantage of Babcock's niceness. There was a definite change in how things were run going from Kasten to Babcock. i.e. At least Babcock loved Basketball.

5. Plan......45%.

At no time, did Babcock seem to have a plan. His GMship seemed more about opportunity and knee jerk reactions than it did about carrying out a plan.

BILLY KNIGHT * * Knights numbers will be in a range being that they are somewhat incomplete.

Drafts..........70% - 88%.

BK knows how to acquire talent, but the question remains does he get the best bang for his buck? He has definitely put the Hawks in a position to get the best players available but he comes away with good player however, you can't really suggest if they were the best players he could have came away with..

Diaw over Howard.

Chillz over ___________.

Smoove over Nelson.

Marvin over Paul

Shelden over Foye.

BK does get credit for being able to navigate the second round so well. Most of his second rounders could make a team and be a part of an 8 man rotation. I wonder what Hansen could have been?

2. FA Acquisition 80% - 90%.

You got to be happy with the acquisition of Stephen Jackson, Esteban, and Zaza Pachulia. Questionable was Kenny Anderson, Kevin Willis although I understand. He gets credit for not getting Kmart or Damp.. but the truth is that he made an offer to Kmart.

3. Trades .........85-95%.

The good trades:

Jax for Al.

JT/Hendu for Walker/Delk.

Big Dog for 1st.

Wallace for 1st.

He has made some questionable trades:

Reef/Theo/Dickau for Wallace...

2 1st/Diaw for JJ. = Questionable for some...

Public Face = 50%-60%.

The one thing that BK has to learn is that what he says matters and how he comes off effects a lot. Him saying that he doesn't care what fans think... That's a big goof.

Plan ........ INC...

It's hard to say exactly how his plan is going to turn out. The good news is that he's sticking to his plan and we're not just flying and making the plan at the same time with no blue print..

[AHF]

Without quibbling over details, there are two things that really jumped out at me. IMO, you way overrated Babcock's drafting and BK's public face.

Babcock could not have failed worse as a drafter, IMO. I would give him a 0% - as in 0% of GMs are worse than he was.

For BK, I give him public face points for keeping some secrets but even this year's draft was predicted by everyone in the first round and (more significantly as far as having a leak) even our second round pick was leaked by DraftExpress. It is hard to see how BK could do a worse job selling the team. I would not give him higher than 10% in this category.

[ggp]

Pete Babcock is by far the worst GM....don't even try to debate that one. Kasten did a good job but he had an owner that had no financial limits. I believe that in the end, Knight will be considered the best GM in ATL Hawks history.

[KB21]

At best, Babcock gets a 10% as a drafter. The only picks he made that ended up being value for that pick were Jason Terry and Alan Henderson. That was it.

Also, Detroit drafted Antoine Carr. The Hawks traded for him and Cliff Levingston before the 1984 season.

[Final_quest]

I think Babcock was not as bad as some people make him out to be. He definitely mishandled the draft, but had good success with a lot of other moves.

Think about it. He put together a perennial playoff team with no help from the draft. How many GMs have done that?

[Lascar78]

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Without quibbling over details, there are two things that really jumped out at me. IMO, you way overrated Babcock's drafting and BK's public face.

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exactly what jumped out on me. Both of these guys get a 10% at most in these areas.

[Eddielives]

Pardon my not being totally clear on this but is Lazy Lo Lorenzen Wright? If he is then I can't believe we gave up two 1st's for him!! Holy crap that's terrible! I hadn't been a Hawks fan for too long at the time but I do remember acquiring him. How could we have given up that much for him?

[pimp]

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Pardon my not being totally clear on this but is Lazy Lo Lorenzen Wright? If he is then I can't believe we gave up two 1st's for him!! Holy crap that's terrible! I hadn't been a Hawks fan for too long at the time but I do remember acquiring him. How could we have given up that much for him?

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I think one of those picks turned out to be a #8 pick

We could have had a chance to draft Amare or Wilcox, if there had been any lotto protection on that pick.

[Peoriabird]

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Pardon my not being totally clear on this but is Lazy Lo Lorenzen Wright? If he is then I can't believe we gave up two 1st's for him!!

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And they were both top 9 or lower

[Sothron]

Babcock does not get appreciated enough. The only aspect he was truly inept in was the draft. In every other aspect he was more than good. Most of his trades were great for this team and even at the end when we were struggling he still maintained future cap flexibility by getting guys with short lengths left on their contracts so if they did not work out we could either move them as an expiring deal or let them walk.

BK gets a big, fat 0% for public face. He insults the fans, refuses to communicate and for two months before the draft everyone in the world knew we promised Shellhead to draft him w/o even working him out. Great job Knight.

[Duff_Man]

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3. Trades .........85-95%.

The good trades:

Jax for Al.

JT/Hendu for Walker/Delk.

Big Dog for 1st.

Wallace for 1st.

He has made some questionable trades:

Reef/Theo/Dickau for Wallace...

2 1st/Diaw for JJ. = Questionable for some...

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That is definitely too high. I would put him at around 65% to 75%. You forgot about the Nazr trade, that was just pathetic. The Walker trade to Boston also was definitely not the best deal (just the LAL pick). Boston was able to get: Curtis Borchardt from the Utah Jazz and guard Qyntel Woods, the draft rights to forward Albert Miralles, two second-round picks and cash from the Miami Heat. I guess you could argue that pick landed us JJ...but I don't think that particular pick was a deal-breaker.

Overall, he has made 10 trades as GM although its more like 9 because SAR/Theo/Sheed was techincally 2 trades but really just one. Thats the way I think about it, there are really only three clear cut positive trades: Lue, S-Jax, and Peja. There is one clear cut negative trade: Nazr. The rest are debateable.

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What did we trade for Nazr? Or do you mean what we traded away? Sorry, my memory sucks.

[gsuteke]

if Billy Knight is so good in every category other than public relations how come the team is so bad right now?

it's year 3 or 4 now and the team still has no starting center, no starting point guard (you think Speedy Claxton is the answer?), and a hope and dream at an undersized PF in Sheldon Williams.

i'm hoping for the best guys, i haven't been negative on the team lately but i'm just not getting it right now.

if Billy trades for a center i'll feel alot better.

[Diesel]

I gave Babcock a 45 out of 100 for this simple reason.

1. Hendu

2. JT

3. Demarr

4. Drafting position.

I think these 3 guys were the best guys that we could have choosen when we drafted. I also think it's hard to rate Babcock a zero when you consider that most of the time we were drafting in the 20s...

Still, his trades and his drafting worked against one another. He traded away lottery picks three times as a GM. He drafted some of the worst players he could. Even an injured player from time to time.

[Diesel]

You do make a very good point about the Nazr trade. I really disliked that one too. I think we really got a good deal on the sheed deal... we just were not willing to take advantage of all that we got.

I mean that basically turned out to be Sheed for Smoove, Sura, Pryz, and some other ham and eggers.. get it.. Darvin Ham.. and that other guy.

[Diesel]

If we had resigned Pryz.. How would we look at the Nazr trade?

[Diesel]

Actually, I put BK in a range because it's difficult to know how any of it will turn out right now.

I think most of it goes with the plan.

The first half of his plan has worked.

Make us bad enough to get a shot at good players in the draft and collect assets in the draft.

The second half is a toss up. Do you keep all the assets you collect (even if they are duplicates) or do you use them as trade bait to get better players.

Just imagine if BK's focus was on picking the best PGs and C instead of picking the best long athletes.

Right now, we'd have Al Jefferson, Jameer Nelson, Chris Paul, and Foye. with those assets, I think it would be much easier to find a good trade

[KB21]

How many lottery picks does he have to blow to get a zero?

He is the man that is responsible for the Hawks drafts in the early 1990s. The drafts that produced Rumeal Robinson as a lottery pick, Stacey Augmon as a lottery pick, and Adam Keefe as a lottery pick were all his responsibility.

[KB21]

Yes. Pete did a sign and trade and dealt two first round picks for Lorenzen Wright.

One pick was the 18th pick in 2000, which was used on Quentin Richardson. The other pick was the 8th pick in 2002, which was used on Chris Wilcox. Amare Stoudemire went one pick after Wilcox in 2002!

Let's not forget that he also traded a 1st round pick, which turned out to be the 8th pick, for Glenn Robinson while trying to find the quick fix. That pick turned out to be T.J. Ford, who really isn't that good.

[Diesel]

I agree with Adam Keefe...

Rumeal Robinson however, wasn't a bad pick... I mean, we were in need of a PG. If not Rumeal, we would have had to take.... Travis Mays (who we eventually got and was not worth Squat)... Brian Oliver or Bimbo Coles who were both 2nd rounders.... Who the hell is Trevor Wilson and Steve Bardo???

I am not that mad with Stacey Augmon either. I don't think he's the best player at the time... but as a SG... That draft was seriously week..

I think more than just his inability to draft good players in the lottery.. His failure was midround picks and 2nd rounders. I mean, in 1990, he missed out on a lot of good players like Ced Ceballos by picking Trevor Wilson and Steve Bardo in the second. I remember Babcock saying right here on HS that he didn't believe that 2nd rounders were that important because they had less than a 45% chance to even make the team. I said "That's BS"... I like BK because he puts just as much thought into his 2nd round pick as he puts into his first round pick. One of Babcock's problems is that he was a self made GM and he made himself by scouting.. Personal scouting.. Because of that, he never took the time to hire enough scouts to get the job done. I think if Babcock would have had a team of scouts, he may have been one of the better GMs in the game. But he had maybe 2... which made him the worst drafter in the history of basketball.

[KB21]

How do you figure that, considering that Jameer Nelson, Chris Paul, and Randy Foye are nothing more than Josh Childress, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams at the point guard position?

Let's just completely forget that Al Jefferson fell off the map after a good rookie season, whereas Josh Smith is arguably the second best player from that entire draft in hindsight.