Howard Average????????

[gsuteke]

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Bballprincess is feeling the pinch of slowly being exposed as a fraud.

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Aw, are you mad cuz I aint giving you no attention today? LOL!

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that isn't going to work on me.

he's got you in a corner and you know it.

[Diesel]

A rookie shaq scored 23.4 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 3.53 bpg, and scored at a % of 56.2% and you want to call his skills average...

Damn, give me that average skilled guy!

[BBallPrincess]

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Bballprincess is feeling the pinch of slowly being exposed as a fraud.

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Aw, are you mad cuz I aint giving you no attention today? LOL!

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that isn't going to work on me.

he's got you in a corner and you know it.

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No he doesn't.....LOL!

[exodus]

Looks like Diesel has a girlfriend.

[lifelong]

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I've never seen a great player with average skills.

Have you?

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Learn to read, I said "average skills in some areas." Shaq has "average" (and that's generous) free shooting ability. Is free throw shooting a skill? If it is a skill, where would Shaq fall on the scale? Surely not "above average." However, is Shaq not a great player? Of course he is a great player.

It seems your reading comprehension skills are average, so does that make you just an average or below average person?

[exodus]

average size + average athleticism + average skills = average player

average size + average athleticism + great skills = above average player

great size + great athleticism + average skills = above average player

I hope this isn't too complicated for you.

[BBallPrincess]

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Bballprincess is feeling the pinch of slowly being exposed as a fraud.

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Aw, are you mad cuz I aint giving you no attention today? LOL!

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that isn't going to work on me.

he's got you in a corner and you know it.

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Oh, and let me say this, I will take my perception of Dwight as well as the perception of NBA execs and coaches, and scouts over his anyday. I am in no way backed into a corner, cuz I know I'm right. So unless he was the NBA execs or coaches that I sat down with in Vegas during USA Basketball training then he has no merit and in no way can he ever make me feel like I'm stupid, or backed into a corner. Especialy when I won over top folks with the little I know about the game......

[Diesel]

Exodus...

It's a very weak position to try to take away a players attribute... that makes him above average and then argue that he's still above average.

How much intelligence does it take to understand what I said to you previously.

If you take away Jason Kidds assists and ability to run an offense.. Doesn't he become an Average player? I mean, he's not that fast, He doesn't shoot that well, his defense is not the greatest... But what makes him great is his ability to run and offense and get assists.

The same is true with Howard. He's unpolished, but what makes him great is his ability to rebound and his ability to get to the basket for the easy shot. Nobody cares that Howard is not a marksman from the three point line. Nobody but you care that Howard is not getting 8 assist per game.

For some reason, you want to run around like you've discovered France because you've found if you try to manipulate every circumstance that you can be right and Howard can be average...

Well, Here's your sign Statboy....

There isn't a GM in the WORLD that would agree with you. The fact that a 2nd year player who came straight out of High School dominates the floor the way that Howard does is great. PERIOD. And you can continue your chopshop thinking.. however it does nothing but makes you look more and more illogical.

[gsuteke]

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Bballprincess is feeling the pinch of slowly being exposed as a fraud.

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Aw, are you mad cuz I aint giving you no attention today? LOL!

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that isn't going to work on me.

he's got you in a corner and you know it.

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No he doesn't.....LOL!

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what kind of media person goes to Vegas for an NBA event and doesn't "have a camera?"

Where is the Harrington "article" that you introduced yourself with that was supposedly being published soon?

on top of that Exodus has exposed a fundamental lack of basketball related communication skills from a.... "basketball writer?"

where there's smoke there's fire. in this case inhilation is becoming hazardous

[exodus]

His skills have to develop before I would consider him a great player.

[Diesel]

But what you have to do Lifelong is consider that the argument covers the whole of the player and not one skill. If that were the case, then ALL PLAYERS would have average skill. Because there's one category in every players possession that is below average.

however, that's not what you were defending unfortunately...

You were defending a player with average skillS being great.

There's nothing wrong with me comprehension... but maybe you're flawed on your reading.

[Diesel]

[Sothron]

I agree with Diesel...take away Nash's passing and shooting and he's just the worst defensive player in NBA history. Not kidding on that one. Take any players two best features and guess what? A whole lot of average will start poking through. So to say you can't count someone's rebounding when he led the NBA in rebounding is just laughable. This ENTIRE argument has got to be "Its Friday and I'm bored at work" blues or its just too sad for words.

[gsuteke]

silence is priceless.

[lifelong]

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But what you have to do Lifelong is consider that the argument covers the whole of the player and not one skill. If that were the case, then ALL PLAYERS would have average skill. Because there's one category in every players possession that is below average.

however, that's not what you were defending unfortunately...

You were defending a player with average skillS being great.

There's nothing wrong with me comprehension... but maybe you're flawed on your reading.

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Actually, that is not what I was defending. It seems there are still a few things wrong with ye (sic) reading comprehension, arr matey. Unfortunately, the only reason I entered this fray was that I thought the entire argument is stupid. I don't like reading my own posts as much as you do, so I'm stepping away from this thread and will let others undress you as they are much better at it than I, much like in the 10% raise thread, the lottery odds calculation thread, etc. etc.

[BBallPrincess]

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average size + average athleticism + average skills = average player

average size + average athleticism + great skills = above average player

great size + great athleticism + average skills = above average player

I hope this isn't too complicated for you.

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Are you serious???? I could care less how you use your stat manipulation PHD to show ones ability in the league. Bottom line of it all is you made a statement saying he was average, and saying that he was overrated because he can't shoot a short jump shop, and can't block as many shots a Josh Smith. Well you are wrong. Plain and simple. There is not ONE NBA exec, player, coach, mascot, beat writer, columnist, or college player that would agree with you. PERIOD! You got Role players, good players, great players, and Stars. Sorry dude every where, and everyone else in NBA have the kid toted as a young rising star. An impact player that will dominate the league. Yeah he's a student of the game now but, right NOW, he is a GREAT player. NOW!

[exodus]

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I agree with Diesel...take away Nash's passing and shooting and he's just the worst defensive player in NBA history. Not kidding on that one. Take any players two best features and guess what? A whole lot of average will start poking through. So to say you can't count someone's rebounding when he led the NBA in rebounding is just laughable. This ENTIRE argument has got to be "Its Friday and I'm bored at work" blues or its just too sad for words.

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Nash's passing and shooting are basketball skills that he has developed.

Howards whole game is based on his size and athleticism, not his skills. He isn't a strong defender and there are a lot of guys who average 16 ppg. He averages only 5 ppg that isn't from dunks or free throws, shooting 39% on those attempts.

Granted garbage points count the same as other points but most great players are the go to guys on their teams down the stretch. Howard isn't although he certainly could be down the road.

I just think his game is too limited to be considered great right now. Of course he could become great if his skills develop but that isn't really what we are talking about.

[gsuteke]

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I agree with Diesel...take away Nash's passing and shooting and he's just the worst defensive player in NBA history. Not kidding on that one. Take any players two best features and guess what? A whole lot of average will start poking through. So to say you can't count someone's rebounding when he led the NBA in rebounding is just laughable. This ENTIRE argument has got to be "Its Friday and I'm bored at work" blues or its just too sad for words.

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It's Friday and I am bored at work.

That's got nothing to do with why Diesel's argument with Exodus doesn't hold water.

Diesel throws posters under the bus for simply using stats to form an overall opinion on a player, however that's what he is doing right here.

I'm not asking you to take away Steve Nash's passing skills. they are a specific skillset he posesses. I'm not asking you to take away Shaquille O'Neal's rebounding ability.

What I am asking you to do (Diesel is a lost cause he'll just pick up the argument somewhere else because he doesn't care if he's right or wrong) is to pull out the physical attributes that O'Neal has to level the playing field. If O'Neal was 6'10" and weighed closer to 250 lbs would he put up the same stats with an equivalent skillset?

Hardly. this is where Diesel's argument holds no water.

[exodus]

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everyone else in NBA have the kid toted as a

young rising star

. An impact player that

will dominate the league.

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You made my point for me and don't even realize it.

A young RISING star, but not a star right now.

A guy who WILL dominate the league, but isn't right now.

Again you continue to talk about what Howard WILL BE, which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

And size, athleticism and skill are important in every player.

As a random example give Shelden 2 more inches and nobody would have griped about the Hawks picking him at 5.

[exodus]

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I don't like reading my own posts as much as you do, so I'm stepping away from this thread and will let others undress you

as they are much better at it than I

, much like in the 10% raise thread, the lottery odds calculation thread, etc. etc.

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Don't sell yourself short.