Howard Average????????

[Sothron]

It doesn't matter if its "skills" or just "athletic ability" if you take away the best two features of any players game, in any sport, you have gaping holes in how you view them. Howard has at least three years to fully develop his "skills" due to his age before any kind of serious analysis can be done of them. He'd be a soph in college at this point and yet he's averaging a double double in the NBA and led the league in rebounding. Its jawdroppingly impressive to do that at that age.

I am going to leave this debate and let you and Princess pass away a slow Friday at work if need be but this debate is just silly. A 20 year old is on Team USA and is the envy of every team in the NBA. I'm going to start tossing the word "average" in that direction.

[gsuteke]

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It doesn't matter if its "skills" or just "athletic ability" if you take away the best two features of any players game, in any sport, you have gaping holes in how you view them. Howard has at least three years to fully develop his "skills" due to his age before any kind of serious analysis can be done of them. He'd be a soph in college at this point and yet he's averaging a double double in the NBA and led the league in rebounding. Its jawdroppingly impressive to do that at that age.

I am going to leave this debate and let you and Princess pass away a slow Friday at work if need be but this debate is just silly. A 20 year old is on Team USA and is the envy of every team in the NBA. I'm going to start tossing the word "average" in that direction.

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this is the equivalent of baseball's "dead ball era" for NBA centers. who does Howard have to compete against on a nightly basis. who does Howard have to compete against for a team USA roster spot for that matter?

[exodus]

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Howard has at least three years to fully develop his "skills" due to his age before any kind of serious analysis can be done of them.

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Exactly. And if his game develops like people seem to think it will i will have no problem calling him a great player.

[BBallPrincess]

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what kind of media person goes to Vegas for an NBA event and doesn't "have a camera?"

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Shows how much you know, there are lots of "Writers that go without camera's. I can name a two that I saw and sat with. Lane Whitaker of Slam, Chris Sheridan if ESPN. But by the way I do have pictures. 314 of them to be exact...Hey I even have one with Bill Walton before the press conference after the scrimmage game.

Oh, and If any one was watching the scrimmage or the actual game on NBA TV, I was the only female there, and the only female who asked questions. So if you heard a sexy sultry voice, it was me.....

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Where is the Harrington "article" that you introduced yourself with that was supposedly being published soon?

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Call down to the magazine and ask them when they are publishing there Basketball Player issue then you'll get your ansr

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on top of that Exodus has exposed a fundamental lack of basketball related communication skills from a....

"basketball writer?"

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No, what he's exposed is a female that loves to debate with men about what she is sure of, and won't conceed for the sake of conceeding. Specially when there are folks with 20+ years of experiance agreeing with her opinion of the boy...

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where there's smoke there's fire. in this case inhilation is becoming hazardous

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Well you might need to invest in a inhalor, or a gas mask...

[Diesel]

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Nash's passing and shooting are basketball skills that he has developed.

Howards whole game is based on his size and athleticism, not his skills.

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So being that Zaza is just as big as Howard...probably bigger, Zaza should have been the rebounding king... right?

you're so dumb.

[exodus]

Zaza has short arms and can't jump.

Are you really going to try and argue that Zaza is as good an athlete as Howard?

[Diesel]

[gsuteke]

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Nash's passing and shooting are basketball skills that he has developed.

Howards whole game is based on his size and athleticism, not his skills.

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So being that Zaza is just as big as Howard...probably bigger, Zaza should have been the rebounding king... right?

you're so dumb.

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show the Centers or lack thereof that Howard has to compete against on a nightly basis and make arguments for each of them as to why there aren't complete stiffs.

you can't.

[gsuteke]

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what kind of media person goes to Vegas for an NBA event and doesn't "have a camera?"

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Shows how much you know, there are lots of "Writers that go without camera's. I can name a two that I saw and sat with. Lane Whitaker of Slam, Chris Sheridan if ESPN. But by the way I do have pictures. 314 of them to be exact...Hey I even have one with Bill Walton before the press conference after the scrimmage game.

Oh, and If any one was watching the scrimmage or the actual game on NBA TV, I was the only female there, and the only female who asked questions. So if you heard a sexy sultry voice, it was me.....

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Where is the Harrington "article" that you introduced yourself with that was supposedly being published soon?

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Call down to the magazine and ask them when they are publishing there Basketball Player issue then you'll get your ansr

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on top of that Exodus has exposed a fundamental lack of basketball related communication skills from a....

"basketball writer?"

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No, what he's exposed is a female that loves to debate with men about what she is sure of, and won't conceed for the sake of conceeding. Specially when there are folks with 20+ years of experiance agreeing with her opinion of the boy...

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where there's smoke there's fire. in this case inhilation is becoming hazardous

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Well you might need to invest in a inhalor, or a gas mask...

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that we know

[BBallPrincess]

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A young RISING star, but not a star right now.

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Your right he is not a star tight now, but he IS a great player

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A guy who WILL dominate the league, but isn't right now.

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I think he will dominate on the the skills that you say he lacks, but he dominates now. As you already know...It was a question your star PHD exam. Q. What player dominates the League in rebounding and double doubles?

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Again you continue to talk about what Howard WILL BE, which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

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This is the Only, time that I said will be and the will be is from around the league. I already say he is a GREAT player, NOW. That's what I said. I don't have to say he's going to be a star, cuz his actions, dominace, playing ability speaks for itself. You also seem to forget that YOU said he has the potential of being a flop as history has proven in the past.

YOU say he's overrated and he's not. I don't have to say that he will be this and that, cuz I already know. my whole point of saying that was to show you that others do not agree with what you say. You flip flop back and forth, and you are so simple minded, my bad one track minded that...you know what never mind....

The whole point of this debate is that YOU said we were OVERATIING him because although he has SIZE and athletisicm, he still has AVERAGE skills.... That's what the WHOLE debate is about. You said it, not me. The you bring in other stat crap cover up the bottom line. You remind me of Bush and the GOVT. They drag other things into the public eye and focus on things that had nothing to do with nothing to draw attention away from the real issues.

[Lascar78]

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A rookie shaq scored 23.4 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 3.53 bpg, and scored at a % of 56.2% and you want to call his skills average...

Damn, give me that average skilled guy!

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Yes, I would take that average skilled guy, just like I would kill to get Dwight here. Not to mention I expect Dwight to add many skills to go with his already dominant athleticism. That doesn't change the fact that while both young Shaq and young Dwight dominated, they both did it by brute force and athleticism, and not basketball skills. And you know it too. There are many ways to succeed at basketball.

Amare is another young guy who is a great ball player but doesn't have all that much skill.

But you know all of this. You're smart enough to know the difference between finesse / basketball skills and sheer athleticism / brute force. You wouldn't be arguing the point that you are if it wasn't to support someone arguing against exodus. As a guy who spends as much time here as you, I don't know why you act ignorant just to get more arguments. It seems like you should prefer a place where smart discussion takes place.

I'm out of this thread.

[exodus]

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You also seem to forget that YOU said he has the potential of being a flop

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Again showing your pathetic reading comprehension. I never said anything even remotely like that.

Even if he never improves AT ALL he wouldn't be a flop.

My comment was that just because a player is young doesn't automatically mean they will improve. Some improve a lot, some don't.

[exodus]

Let Howard show some commitment to defense before you start comparing him to Rodman.

[Diesel]

Obviously, he was not the biggest, most athletic guy playing at the time. IN fact, he was one of the smallest guys playing.

Luefan.. How do you suppose Rodman became one of the greatest rebounders ever??

If it were not a skill, then it must have been natural ability right??

I mean, ROdman had Mind control on the ball and other players right?

It was nothing he had to work at...

[exodus]

Howard doesn't have that problem.

[BBallPrincess]

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You also seem to forget that YOU said he has the potential of being a flop

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Again showing your pathetic reading comprehension. I never said anything even remotely like that.

Even if he never improves AT ALL he wouldn't be a flop.

My comment was that just because a player is young doesn't automatically mean they will improve. Some improve a lot, some don't.

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Dude if I only had the energy to go looking for what you said. You obviouly have some Idea of what post I'm talking about cause you defended your self anyway. You might not have said that exactly, but you did say something to the effect. How players have been touted as stars, or great players, and something like NBA has proven otherwise...So whatever, you still defended your self to something you said I was making up....

[exodus]

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Dude if I only had the energy to go looking for what you said. You obviouly have some Idea of what post I'm talking about cause you defended your self anyway. You might not have said that exactly, but you did say something to the effect.

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I remember the exact post.

I was talking about high school players who didn't pan out, specifically Kwame and Chander. When they were drafted people were just as high on them as people were on Howard.

People kept waiting for Kwame and Chandlers skills to develop but they never did.

And then I pointed out that while Howard is already way better than those busts, there is go guarantee that his skills will improve as much as everyone expects.

I am not surprised you got it all mixed up.

[exodus]

I found the exact post

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Kwame and Chandler had a lot of people thinking they had very high ceilings when they were drafted. So far their offensive skills are non-existent.

Obviously Howard is already far beyond those two busts

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click

I can certainly see how someone like you would be confused by that.

[Admin]

He was 1st in total rebounds, but he played more games than Garnett and therefore did not win the rebounding title.

Just to weigh in on this subject, I think its ridiculous for anyone to call Dwight Howard average, or great ... at this point in his career. I don't think that anyone did call him average though. It is quite possible to be average in some areas and to be great in others, which is what Howard is.

He is an average defender.

He is an average shooter from outside.

He is a great rebounder.

He is a great power player who gets to the line quite a bit.

He is an above average shot blocker.

Put those together and that makes for someone who is between great and average. He is still young and I expect this is the year that he becomes great, but it's too early to say that with certainty. Saying that he is as of right now either average or great is a ridiculous statement either way though.

[exodus]

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Put those together and that makes for someone who is between great and average.

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Exactly