Why the Indy Deal May Be Best for Us

[Nicholasp27]

If you believe that marvin/smoove will pan out and make a great forward tandem and that chill will get 25-30mpg backing up 2/3 and be one of our on-court leaders and be happy in his role and willing to re-sign...

Well, then we will be re-signing chill/smoove in a few years and then marvin after that, which will definitely put us over the cap, even if we just sign 1-2 of them to big deals...

That means that the only way we can get a >MLE FA here without snt/trades is before that happens

Most of us believe that our biggest needs are a Starting PG for the future (speedy is great, but we need a young prospect that can be our starter for the next 10 years) and a starting defensive C (if u think zaza won't improve and shelden can't play much c minutes)...

well troy murphy, etc doesn't fit that bill

so it may be better, if u believe in our young talent, to take a pick and keep the cap space to give us the best chance at getting a young pg or center for the future...otherwise we'll have to draft them (teams don't often trade great young centers or great young pgs)

so if u want us to stop building through the draft and u believe in our young talent but want us to get starting pg and starting c sometime soon before we can contend, then keeping the cap space is our best chance since people aren't offering us bynum/harrison/deron/etc for al

we could get a pg like hinrich next summer or a center like kaman...yes, they may be extended before then, but we don't have a chance if we don't have the space...

if we play well this year and win close to 50% and start getting positive press, a young pg or center may very well wanna come here to be part of it and to help improve our team even more

[macdaddy]

Well said Billy!

[Guest Walter]

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If you believe that marvin/smoove will pan out and make a great forward tandem and that chill will get 25-30mpg backing up 2/3 and be one of our on-court leaders and be happy in his role and willing to re-sign...

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You don't even believe what you said. Chill will like being the 3rd string Sf, 2nd string Sg miles behind a star BU role? There isn't a chance in hell he resigns to remain a BU for his career.

You can have a great forward tandem, but skill-wise these guys are both SFs. You need a dominant big to pair with them and your hope that one will come here on the cheap without costing us any of our young talent, while quaint, doesn't win games. Hell, if I was a FA this would be one of the last teams I would want to sign with if only because of how horrible we run our offseason. We are a travesty. Back to the point, I haven't seen hope or optimism put up 15/10. I'd rather BK have gotten us a young center prospect with Al or Al/Childress than "dream" about how the league's young talent will fall at our feet when the cap space is gone and we can't pay more, our business rep is tarnished, and we continue to have umteen Sfs.

W

[Nicholasp27]

u don't have to agree with all of that

all u have to agree with is that we'll re-sign one of the 3 to a big deal, leaving us with

[Guest Walter]

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all u have to agree with is that we'll re-sign one of the 3 to a big deal

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Now that would cement BK's draft record as the worst in history. If you only resign 1 of 3 of your top picks because your redundant drafting ran the other two off, that's horrible.

Imagine this team now without MW or Childress. Now, would you as a center want to join it so much you would choose it over 29 teams? Unlikely. Your argument is the 3 young talents will so excite FA centers that they will join the Hawks over 29 teams even when 2 of the 3 won't play for us. Brilliant!

W

[Nicholasp27]

that's beside the point

if u agree that we will re-sign at least one of marvin/smoove/chill, then we won't have cap space after that point...which means that our time is from now until then to get our franchise pg/c without trades...so blowing that space on a troy murphy isn't wise when we can keep the space and have a shot at a hinrich or a kaman or one of the sonics' centers, etc

[Peoriabird]

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Well, then we will be re-signing chill/smoove in a few years and then marvin after that, which will definitely put us over the cap, even if we just sign 1-2 of them to big deals...

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I don't understand why it is such a bad thing to be over the cap if you have the players you want on your team. So what we will be a couple of million over the cap. Aren't most teams. As far as getting the center and point guard of the future. There is this process called the draft where you can take college players of any position and pay them to play for you. I know the response will be we will be picking too late to get an impact player at center or point guard. The answer is every year players get drafted late and sometimes in the second round who becomes an impact player at those position. The bottom line is that we don't have always look to free agency to fill needs.

[Nicholasp27]

yes, i agree that it's fine to be over the cap

and hopefully we'll be well over the cap by re-signing our young studs as we are successful and become contenders

and yes, we can always use the draft as well in the future, plus trades and the MLE

however, since we have the cap space, why not use it on something that will help us? keeping it instead of blowing it on a troy murphy will give us the CHANCE to grab a pg/c if one becomes available next summer

why not keep that extra avenue for improving open? we aren't getting offered anything decent for our space for al, so why not get the pick and keep the space rather than some mediocre overpaid player?

i don't subscribe to the philosophy that we have to get someone great for al or it's a 'bad trade'...i think we should take whatever offer is best for our team and gives us the best % chance at contending in the future...indy's deal>golden state's murphy deal imo...if indy's deal ends up being > than all the other deals as well, then taking the indy deal is a good move

it sucks that we can't get offered more for al, yes, but that's what the market has decided...so let's take the best deal we can get and be happy with it...it's not like we rushed into the deal on the day he could be traded...we have worked with teams for months and using 2 different agents to try to get a good deal in place...if the indy deal is it, then it's likely the best deal for us that we were offered

i don't wanna take back a murphy just so we can say "we got close to equal value back for al"

[gsuteke]

hopefully something positive happens in the next 10 days.

[DrReality]

Let's trade for TJ Duckett. That makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

[Guest Walter]

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...give us the CHANCE to grab a pg/c if one becomes available next summer

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Pryz wanted the money and was an unrestricted FA as exodus points out. You couldn't get more available than that. If Pryz wasn't considered or wouldn't consider us because of the way BK treated him, both speak to BK being in impediment to bringing in a talented starting calibe center able to pair with 2, Sfs.

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why not keep that extra avenue for improving open?

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You can't PUNT yourself into the endzone. If I had any confidence that BK could much less would make winning moves with our cap space before it was too late, I'd be fine with it. But BK is not good at much else besides PUNTING responsibility or the time frame for rebuilding.

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we aren't getting offered anything decent for our space for al, so why not get the pick and keep the space rather than some mediocre overpaid player?

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Why not hold BK responsible for not getting more out of Al rather than suggesting we take it up the a$$ happily when he screws it up.

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i think we should take whatever offer is best for our team and gives us the best % chance at contending in the future...

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By far that would have been Al for Artest.

Imagine a lineup of

Roy/Speedy

JJ/Roy

Artest/MW

JS/MW

Pryzbilla

Nicholas, that lineup would have been very easy to compile with a rumored trade of Al for Artest, Roy available at 5, Speedy who we already signed, and Pryzbilla who wanted the money as an UFA. Please lineup BK's lineup against that and compare.

W

P.S. The Murphy deal can't even get done due to his 5 year contract and the court stipulations. Down with the notion. It shouldn't represent your strawman argument when Artest was available.

[Nicholasp27]

a) i wanted to trade al at the deadline; however the best we heard of was earl/nene for al

b) pryz is not the savior that many of u make him out to be

c) we could have gotten pryz even with the al holdup (looking at u exodus)...if we wanted him and he wanted our extra money, then he woulda waited for al to be traded to sign with us; this thing has NOT held us up from making other offers/moves...we still got speedy/lo and we coulda gotten pryz but apparently bk didn't want to for whatever reason....i like pryz and woulda liked to have gotten him, but he's not our savior that would lead us to contention

[exodus]

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c) we could have gotten pryz even with the al holdup (looking at u exodus)...if we wanted him and he wanted our extra money, then he woulda waited for al to be traded to sign with us

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Let's assume Prz would wait indefinitely for the Hawks, taking a chance the Hawks get a center in an Al SNT deal and back out of their "offer" to Prz. That means the Hawks didn't even try to make him and offer, again putting the fault at BK's feet. Duh.

I can see your logic though. if BK makes a decision it must be the right one since he has such a successful history as a GM.

[Guest Walter]

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a) i wanted to trade al at the deadline; however the best we heard of was earl/nene for al

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Al for Artest was better HANDS DOWN. You don't "hear" about most deals I suspect.

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[Sothron]

As much as I love Pryz's game there was no chance he would ever sign a deal to come back and play under Knight. Not a chance of that happening.

[Lascar78]

what does holding accountable mean? Every single person here but one acknowledge that BK has made mistakes. We differ on how important they are. You think that missing out on Pryz is a huge deal, we do not. We both know it would have been nice to have him here and it is probably BK's fault that he's gone. It's not like we're talking about an all-star candidate here, we're talking about a guy with career averages of 4 points and 5.6 rebounds after 6 seasons. That's 2 baskets per game. Yeah he's a pretty good shot blocker, but excuse us for not crying over a career 4/6 guy.

[mrhonline]

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Yeah he's a pretty good shot blocker, but excuse us for not crying over a career 4/6 guy.

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That should be "game, set, match," but unfortunately we're going to have to hear about Joel P. for two more years around here I bet...

[exodus]

The problem is that Prz was the best defensive center on the market. The fact that he can't score isn't really relevant.

[mrhonline]

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The problem is that Prz was the best defensive center on the market.

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No, Ben Wallace was the best defensive center on the market.

Regardless, do Joel's defensive abilities justify a five-year, $40M+ deal? I've seen him play, and I don't think so. I'm just not impressed with his one-dimensional game.

[exodus]

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No, Ben Wallace was the best defensive center on the market.

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He wasn't on the market for the Hawks. You think he would choose us over the Bulls?

I watched Portland a few times this year and Joel is one of the few centers who can guard the top bigs without help, including Shaq. I saw him actually outscore Shaq through 3 quarters. Time and again Shaq went at him but couldn't get a good shot off.

And I am still waiting for any suggestion from you as to how the Hawks can get a center who is a strong defender without paying more than the MLE.