What exactly did you guys want for Al

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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It's time for Hawks FANS to choose a side and stick with it.

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So we can't agree with some moves and disagree with others? We have to be on one side or the other? So in order to be Hawks fans we have to be like KB?

Sounds like you have appointed yourself as the Hawksquawk thought police. If you don't like what I say then go ahead and write me a ticket. I'll see you in court.

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LOL @ Ex. We can all agree or disagree with the different moves that "supposedly" have improved our team. But you have to remember that for every action, there is also a reaction. But unlike real physics, that reaction isn't necessarily an equal one in the NBA.

If you bring in a guy like a Troy Murphy or a Chris Mihm, you limit someone else that we already have here that may develop into a better player than those guys. Maybe ZaZa can develop to be better than those guys. Look at the jump he made last year, when he actually got quality minutes. It's definitely not out of the question that he can be better than Mihm.

That was the one of the points for letting Al go in the first place . . to make room for a more talented and skilled guy like Marvin Williams or Josh Smith to see if they can be on Al's level or beyond.

It's almost the same situation Al was in his first years in Indiana. Yes, he got the playing time, but it was always on a limited basis. The same goes for Johnathan Bender. The Pacers had better players in front of those guys, so it hindered their development into "star" players. When Al got his minutes here, he blossomed into a quality starter. At some point, we have to give Marvin and Smoove the same opportunity, without bringing in a ton of guys to "improve" the team . . if they even do it at all. And if it means that our ascent to the playoffs is delayed one year, then so be it.

As for the people still crying about the Chris Paul vs Marvin Williams issue . . . get over it already. Nothing we say or do is going to change the fact that Marvin is here and Chris is there. It's like beating yourself up for not talking to a woman that you liked, but you never had the courage to approach her . . or you were looking at her, and other women at the same time.

So we might as well give Marvin the same shot Chris had in NOK, and see what he can truly do. Marvin hasn't even had a chance to prove his critics wrong, yet, people criticize the Hawks unrelentlessly for not taking Paul. That's BS in my opinion. As a bench player, Marvin was actually pretty good last year.

The same goes for Shelden Williams. Let's see what Shelden can do in a REAL NBA game, before we start calling him a bust.

Most of the "fans" on this board rotinely say that either Smoove or Marvin will become stars. Well, you can't become a "star" if you don't get "star minutes".

And if we keep bringing so-called quality guys in, they can't get those "star minutes". At some point, we have to just roll with what we got, be content with it, and see what happens.

All of the whining and crying about what we "should have done", is moot at this point. See what the kids can do this year. If they can get it done, we're set for the future. If not, then we have guys that we can trade to bring in quality players.

[exodus]

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If they can get it done, we're set for the future

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No, we aren't. The Hawks still need a center who can play D. That is the major weakness of the roster right now, other than inexperience which I am not worried about.

The only way Zaza could defend a typical NBA player would be if said player was sitting down on the court. Then I think Zaza could handle him. But if the guy stands up....

The rule regarding hand checking heavily favors the offense. And when you look at the guards in the east it is obvious that interior D is a huge key for the Hawks.

Replacing Al with Shelden will help a lot for sure but only solves half of the problem.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And Walter . . we added the best defensive player in college to our squad.

Plus we added another athletic shot blocker with our 2nd round pick.

Plus we obtained a decent veteran PG.

Plus we obtained a PF/C who knows how to play the game.

But I forgot . . what we've done is CRAP, compared to everybody else.

LOL @ that.

Portland sold their entire team, and is doing the EXACT SAME THING that BK did with the Hawks back in 2003 - 04. But when he did it, it was a DUMB MOVE by us.

LOL . . and where is that "dominant center"? Aldridge? You mean the same guy that Shelden MAN-HANDLED when Duke ran right over Texas last season. Even Shelden called him "soft". And look at Aldridge now? He's already hurt.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Everybody wants to criticize every move we make, but don't have a viable alternative that would make this team overall a better one.

Add a guard in the draft, we lose out on a banger inside.

Add a big man, and at least if he pans out, we already have competent guards in place here.

As far as Shelden "spelling" guys, that's where you and I differ about his role. Just because you're the #5 pick in the draft, doesn't mean you're destined to become a star player. There are plenty of top 10 lottery picks throughout this league that start out as bench players. Eventually, they may develop into a starter, or a capable 6th man.

But I forget, the "plan" was to play Roy or Foye at the point. Or keep JJ at the point.

Then, when the lightning quick PGs around the league expose Roy and Foye on the defensive end, everybody would be complaining, because they're really 2-guards instead of PGs.

That's why people ripped us for JJ playing the point last year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And as I told Walter . . where are we going to get this center that can play defense? Most of the centers in this league are crap.

That was part of the reason for taking Shelden in the first place . . to play him some at the 5, and see if he can slow down the lay-up drill people ran against us.

[exodus]

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where are we going to get this center that can play defense? Most of the centers in this league are crap.

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Which is exactly my point. I don't know where they are going to get a center who can play D now.

They passed on Nene, Prz and I also think they could have had Mihm, who i would say is at least average on D. They probably had a shot at Mags too who was traded for scraps.

Now I have no clue who they could get.

Sure Shelden will help but he can only do so much on his own and only addresses half the problem. And he is just too short to play center. his 33" vertical isn't enough to make up for his lack of height.

If you are going to paint your house i doubt you would stop halfway and declare yourself finished.

[Popeye]

It's really hard to tell Walter something.

Next day he will start another thread saying Shelden pick sucks!

so there is no point to try and convince him.

[foeteen14]

Ex you can't be serious? Nene, what has this guy done in the league, but rip somebody off for the tune of 10 mil a year, coming off major knee surgery, stupid. Pryz(last year)=Zaza point blank, remember dampier in his contract year, then he got paid and he's back to his old self. And if you want to even consider mihm being a good player then everything that i am saying to you is pointless, he's not even better than our backup. You know damn well that mags would be here for one year, play real hard, get a huge offer from some stupid gm next year, then go back to his old don't really care self

[exodus]

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Ex you can't be serious? Nene, what has this guy done in the league, but rip somebody off for the tune of 10 mil a year, coming off major knee surgery, stupid. Pryz(last year)=Zaza point blank, remember dampier in his contract year, then he got paid and he's back to his old self. And if you want to even consider mihm being a good player then everything that i am saying to you is pointless, he's not even better than our backup. You know damn well that mags would be here for one year, play real hard, get a huge offer from some stupid gm next year, then go back to his old don't really care self

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Actually Nene got 12 mill (lol). He is one of the best defensive centers in the league which is just what the Hawks need . Ditto Prz.

Mihm shoots 50% from the field and is a much better defender than Zaza. In fact he blocks about 3 times as many shots per game. Plus he only has 1 yr left at 4 mill so we would get to see how good he is before making a commitment.

If you have better ideas for the Hawks getting a center I would love to hear them. Of course I know you don't.

[KB21]

There were no players being offered that made sense for the Hawks in the short term or the long term. The Hawks could have gotten Troy Murphy, but it would have cost them one of the Joshes or Marvin down the road. What sense would that have made?

[foeteen14]

i don't have any good ideas for getting the hawks a great center, but doesn't mean we should throw money at bad ideas. zaza will be better than each one of those centers you named. and as far nene, you just don't throw that kind of money at someone coming of major knee surgery. the hawks will continue to build, but for now we're going to be an offensive team that tries to outscore people, and i believe more times than not, we will this year

[KB21]

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Absolutely the same way I feel. We really needed a veteran "dirty work" blue collar kind of guy. As well, some extra leadership on the team would have been nice as well.

Not gonna quit being a fan of the Hawks, just disappointing after all the wait until the offseason when we trade Al talk.

GO HAWKS!!!

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We got the veteran "dirty work" blue collar kind of guy. His name is Lorenzen Wright.

[exodus]

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zaza will be better than each one of those centers you named.

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LOL. Yeah the other teams are so jealous that we have a center who can't play D, shoots 45% and turns it over too much.

Zaza/Lo are nothing more than unwanted 20 mpg backups the Hawks picked up cheaply.

[skyhawk]

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Mihm shoots 50% from the field and is a much better defender than Zaza. In fact he blocks about 3 times as many shots per game. Plus he only has 1 yr left at 4 mill so we would get to see how good he is before making a commitment.

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If Mihm is so great then why are/were the Lakers willing to give him up? Is it because Kwame's such a force that they don't need Mihm?? Don't think so. Why did the Celts move him? I think you're overrating Mihm and Pryz...

[foeteen14]

zaaz is also 22-23 years old and is already ahead of or even with all those players you named. why the deep hatred for zaza, i know he's not perfect and has flaws but he's young and will only get better, he'll learn position defense as it is taught to him. all our players have alot to learn

[exodus]

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If Mihm is so great then why are/were the Lakers willing to give him up?

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Because they aren't title contenders. They know Mihm is the only player they have who can bring back enough value to greatly improve their roster. Since they have 3 centers they were willing to take a chance.

Just go to a Laker board and ask about Mihm. You might be surprised what you find.

[Vol4ever]

Sturt,

I agree with your thoughts 150%, you just put it in words much better than I.

[exodus]

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zaaz is also 22-23 years old and is already ahead of or even with all those players you named

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Zaza shoots worse and is a much worse defender. he was a pro in Europe long before he came here. And last year was his 3rd year here.

His upside is limited.

[Guest Walter]

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A)continue to bash him to prove that i was "right"

B)start becoming a fan and appreciate the talent and potential that he has

I chose B. I wonder if you are capable of making the same choice.

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In fact, in the right circumstance I believe MW would be a great part of the team's success. That circumstance requires a dominant center (prospect) where a 2, Sf lineup isn't (such) a liability. I even WANT to keep MW and argued keeping him over JS might make more sense if we got say Bynum and had to get rid of one of JS or MW.

As long as MW is less productive than JS and we don't have a credible means of playing JS and MW in the starting lineup without their being exposed in the post, I will not favor keeping MW rather than getting similar talent at a position of need. I don't dislike MW. I hate BK's decision! I hate BK's apologists. But I don't dislike MW. I don't mean him harm by saying he has never been and isn't as good as JS. Those are facts. I don't mean him harm by bringing up CP3. That is directed towards BK. I mean to call into question support for BK who I think is (proven) incapable of building a contenting team at this point.

In the same sense I hate BK's decision to draft SW even more. I believe BK makes the wrong decision no matter what his excuse is. It was errantly "BPA" with MW. It was "need" with SW. I don't know how a team's rebuilding so changes in a year to justify this arrogant shift in philosophy, particularly when the "BPA" draft pick didn't (begin to) pan out. I don't mean to harp on the particulars, I mean to highlight the incompetency at the top. I do not know how to best do that without speaking about the particulars and I hope not to harm them.

W

[Guest Walter]

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And Walter . . we added the best defensive player in college to our squad.

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One with a short reach, who is unathletic, short, who if played forces us to sit JS or MW, who no other team in the top 10 wanted, with little upside, in a weak defensive player year in college, who is one-dimensional,...

We got Lo Wright (this time) without using a top 5 pick. Doesn't he do the same thing that SW does? A BU big.

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Plus we added another athletic shot blocker with our 2nd round pick.

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Whatever.

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Plus we obtained a decent veteran PG.

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Decent veteran Pg + 26 win team with potential at the same position - 19/7 player = 32 win team.

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Plus we obtained a PF/C who knows how to play the game.

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And we didn't use a #5 pick to do it. Hmm?

NC, Name one team with more fleixibility and capitol this offseason. ONE!

Name a team who needed more of an overhaul than us.

Now look at our offseason's "returns".

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Portland sold their entire team, and is doing the EXACT SAME THING that BK did with the Hawks back in 2003 - 04. But when he did it, it was a DUMB MOVE by us.

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Actually, Portland did the exact thing we SHOULD have done this year. They made bold, inspired moves and traded from their positional redundancy to build a team of players with potential at every single position. Jack at Pg, Roy at Sg/Pg, Webster at Sg/Sf, Aldridge at Pf, Outlaw at Sf, Pryz at C. When did we EVER do this? We still haven't done this.

He were are with everyone of our top draft picks 6'8" and at forward: JC, JS, MW, and SW. How is that even defensible?

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LOL . . and where is that "dominant center"? Aldridge? You mean the same guy that Shelden MAN-HANDLED when Duke ran right over Texas last season. Even Shelden called him "soft". And look at Aldridge now? He's already hurt.

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Pryzbilla is their center. Hello?

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Add a guard in the draft, we lose out on a banger inside.

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BANGERS ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER BE WORTH 5TH OVERALL PICKS!

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As far as Shelden "spelling" guys, that's where you and I differ about his role. Just because you're the #5 pick in the draft, doesn't mean you're destined to become a star player.

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SW is proof positive of your point.

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There are plenty of top 10 lottery picks throughout this league that start out as bench players. Eventually, they may develop into a starter, or a capable 6th man.

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We unfortunately are not a team with so much talent that we can afford to draft for a 6th man. In fact, JC is already our 6th man so now two of our 4 top draft picks become BUs. THAT is a miserable record for our draft positions. Playoff teams can afford to draft for 6th men. We can't. It's precisely these type errors that prevent teams like the Hawks from ever contending.

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But I forget, the "plan" was to play Roy or Foye at the point. Or keep JJ at the point.

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Actually, that was KB's plan and for once I agree with him. Unfortunately BK didn't and KB had to tuck his tail and flip-flop. I see nothing wrong with Roy or Foye at Pg with JJ alongside them.

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Then, when the lightning quick PGs around the league expose Roy and Foye on the defensive end, everybody would be complaining, because they're really 2-guards instead of PGs.

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Foye, while I see him as less of a Pg than Roy, is lightning quick himself, is a great defender, and will be one at the next level. No tiny-mite pg is going to outclass him. With Roy, a good all-around player including defender in his own right, I proposed getting (gasp) Speedy Claxton or the like, a small, quick Pg to play when a the opposing Pg is hot. In general size is prefered at a position. So Roy plays Pg most of the time, but also BUs JJ when Speedy comes in. An ideal 3 guard rotation that has not size, skill, or quickness weakness.

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That's why people ripped us for JJ playing the point last year.

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JJ isn't a Pg. Next to Childress, who is a Sf more than a Sg, JJ playing at the pg position is particularly difficult. JJ I-S a good Sg to have next to a guy like Roy, whose college coach projected as an NBA Pg and who Portland also sees as a potential Pg due to his court vision, passing skills, and cerebral game. Doesn't mean you don't need a waterbug to back them both up, but like "bangers" it doesn't take top 5 picks to get waterbug Pgs.

W

[Guest]

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The Hawks could have gotten Troy Murphy, but it would have cost them one of the Joshes or Marvin down the road. What sense would that have made?

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How many times do I have to tell you that wouldn't be the case? We wouldn't be at the Luxury Tax threshold if we extended them unless all three got Max deals. Stop with this argument, its really lame.