Did we tryout Sene?

[Guest Walter]

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even at 7' whatever you still have to be able to leave your feet on defense

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And received votes for the all-review team. I don't think he has any problems leaving his feet.

Might wanna try on those mittens. I realize making a claim like I have MAY seem against the odds, so when I'm proven right over a season your amount of crow should be considerably more than the usual.

W

P.S. Since this thread was initially about BK promising the lesser wrong guy at the wrong position without even trying out most of the others. Taking a look at Roy's 65% shooting % or Foye's 24.8 PPG is particularly insulting.

[AHF]

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really?

Saer Sene will block more shots than Shelden Williams in 2006-2007?

Go ahead and go on record here Walter.

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READ THE POST! I qualified per48 or MPG because Sene will not get as many MPG, but he will block more shots per minute than SW and that's despite him playing the C vs. Pf positions against taller players. I mean his standing reach is 9" greater than SW. He has alot to learn and with the experience difference it will be close, but his tools will earn him more BPM.

W

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Shagari Alleyne's tools earned him more BPM last season than Shelden Williams.

On the issue of not working him out, I agree that was a mistake. We should have worked out at least the perceived top 15 prospects.

[AHF]

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Simply put, bigs with potential lose their value less than similarly talented smalls with potential. Is that correct enough for you?

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I guess we are still at a matter of defining what we are talking about. If you are talking about bigs who are talented enough to be drafted in the 5-15 range of the draft versus smalls who are talented enough to be drafted in the 5-15 range of the draft I would disagree strongly. If you are talking about something else I think we would need to define it more clearly before I could agree or disagree with that statement.

[Guest Walter]

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per 48? so what you are saying is he will play less minutes than Sheldon on a Seattle team this is

worse

than the Hawks? that's preposterous!

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Yes, Sene will play fewer MPG than SW. Here's why?

1) Sene is 20 years old, almost 3 years younger than SW.

2) Sene has played significantly fewer years of organized basketball.

3) Seattle has two other center prospects in Swift and Petro they must give minutes to. On the Hawks he might even start (as internet rumor has it Sene would if Swift weren't also such a good, although differently skilled, center prospect) because of our post defensive need.

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[Guest Walter]

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Shagari Alleyne's tools earned him more BPM last season than Shelden Williams.

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You will not come away with any comparison to Alleyne or any other simply BIG center prospect. Sene, despite being young and raw, has good footwork, skills, and even better tools. Watch the video. If you can't see the difference between potential and simply BIG I can't help you.

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On the issue of not working him out, I agree that was a mistake. We should have worked out at least the perceived top 15 prospects.

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It's the biggest mistake a GM can make, ARROGANCE! BK is phoning it in when he doesn't do all his homework because he thinks he knows it all already.

W

[Guest Walter]

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even at 7' whatever you still have to be able to leave your feet on defense

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2522439

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Scouts said Mouhamed Saer Sene would be a big-time project.

Had they seen his three games so far at the Rocky Mountain Revue summer league, they might have projected he'll contribute sooner than originally thought.

Sene -- taken 10th overall by Seattle in last month's NBA draft -- scored 13 points on 5 of 8 shooting, pulled down six rebounds and blocked five shots while logging 28 minutes in the Sonics' 76-75 overtime win over Utah on Monday night at Salt Lake Community College.The 7-foot Senegalese center's array of mostly inside shots included a dunk, a short hook and a soft jumper. But it was his blocks -- including two on Jazz second-round pick Paul Millsap in the final two minutes of regulation -- that really impressed.

"He's in the right position most of the time, he has tremendous quickness off the floor and anticipates where to get blocked shots from,'' said Jazz assistant Tyrone Corbin, who coached Utah's Revue team Monday.

"It's an incredible knack,'' added Corbin, who had a 15-year, eight-team NBA playing career. "I mean, a lot of guys don't have it. They have the size, but they don't have the timing and the quickness to get off or the right positioning to get the shot blocked.''

With the Sonics' two other young centers not playing in the Revue -- Johan Petro is currently with the French national team, and Robert Swift is here but focusing on individual workouts and scrimmages -- Sene will be given ample opportunity to show he deserves regular-season playing time.

Corbin worked twice with Sene when Utah had him in for a pair of auditions; the Jazz had their eye on the athletic 20-year-old, but saw him go to the Sonics before they got a chance to select at No. 14. And he, for one, thinks Sene could see that playing time come quite early.

"He's a little bit more advanced basketball-wise than I thought just seeing him in individual workouts,'' Corbin said. "Offensively, he's a little bit more advanced than I thought, too, because he made some good moves down there.''

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gsuteke, alotta talk but you can't or won't put up the words "SW will get more BPA than Sene". Until then, especially considering Sene's performances to date despite his age and inexperience, might want to invest in a pair of these...

...before you visit Hawksquawk.

W

[gsuteke]

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per 48? so what you are saying is he will play less minutes than Sheldon on a Seattle team this is

worse

than the Hawks? that's preposterous!

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Yes, Sene will play fewer MPG than SW. Here's why?

1) Sene is 20 years old, almost 3 years younger than SW.

2) Sene has played significantly fewer years of organized basketball.

3) Seattle has two other center prospects in Swift and Petro they must give minutes to. On the Hawks he might even start (as internet rumor has it Sene would if Swift weren't also such a good, although differently skilled, center prospect) because of our post defensive need.

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if the dude can't play right now why draft him in the first round?

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That's just [censored] stupid! He's a raw project who as it turns out is not as raw as one would expect. His footwork is already very good for a guy that has hardly played the sport and his tools, oh his tools, he can be a dominant game changer in the post with those tools.

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what good is he going to do sitting at the end of the bench?

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Even more dumb. YOU NEED MITTENS! If you belive it make the inverse claim that I have. Claim SW will get more BPM than Sene. I dare you! You haven't yet. I wonder why chicken hawk.

BTW, I say the same thing about Childress. With two prospects ahead of him at one position he isn't gonna play much. Whadduya think we can get for him?

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take a poll on this thread Walter. I'm not the one who looks foolish here.

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Can you type, "SW will get more BPM than Sene"? I didn't think so.

W

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Walter those are the same damn excuses used for MW

...who by the way you've been trashing for the past year on this site. you can't have it both ways egghead. if they weren't legit for MW they damn sure aren't legit for some jack@ss that won't see considerable PT for the next 4 years. MW is ready to contribute in a big way this year! We're talking a difference of 3 draft slots year over year!

Walter you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. a project sits in your garage. It's that 1969 corvette you've always wanted to restore. it's not what you spend the #5 pick in the NBA draft on man!

Shellhead will contribute to the Hawks team this year.

Sene will sit at the end of bench and when he does get in during garbage time he may block a few shots.

Go ahead and put this on record....

Saer Sene will have more blocks per minute played that Shaquille O'Neal next year.

Do you think I give a rat's @ss about his supposed efficiencies per your BPM argument?

give me the guy that's going to win you some ball games.

you keep riding the nuts of some fool that got drafted because he's taller than everybody.

You keep giving me second hand accounts minus some limited video of Sene's supposed skills. you ever take a statistics class Walter? Please allow me to share a definition with you

statistics

n : a branch of applied mathematics concerned with the collection and interpretation of quantitative data and the use of probability theory to estimate population parameters

your sample size is too small Walter. Allow me to share another definition with you

conjecture; Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-jek-cher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -tured, ing.

–noun 1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

The word conjecture basically sums up your Sene hypothesis.

I'll TIVO Shellhead dropping bows on NBA players this season and send it to you. Perhaps that's the only way you'll see the truth since you can't take off your "Billy Knight is running the team into the ground" goggles.

Give it a rest Walter. These "We've got to get a Center because the sky is falling" posts are getting old man.

for real.

i do appreciate the picture though Walter. cute kid.

ATL HAWKS playoff candidates in 2006

[AHF]

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Shagari Alleyne's tools earned him more BPM last season than Shelden Williams.

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You will not come away with any comparison to Alleyne or any other simply BIG center prospect. Sene, despite being young and raw, has good footwork, skills, and even better tools. Watch the video. If you can't see the difference between potential and simply BIG I can't help you.

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Do you know the difference between a highlight reel of plays against sub-Division I level talent in a lowly regarded foreign league and meaningful scouting? If you put any number of big men against that level of competition and then selectively editted it to take his best moments you would end up with something making the guy look like a star. There weren't many blocks there that I haven't seen from Shagari against guys like Andrew Bogut who are better than anyone Shagari faced in that league.

Watching highlight reels of even someone like Gerald Green would make you think the guy was an impact player last year. You need a broader base to observe someone to meaningfully get an idea of their skill set.

[DJlaysitup]

Well I do have to agree with Walter somewhat on the "potential" arguement. At the time of the draft I was all for Shelden (and am still OK with the pick)...but I figured we couldn't afford a potential game changer like Sene because it would take him at least 2 years to be effective in the NBA as a center, and we needed a player that was ready to go in order to start winning now.

Of course my logic (which turned out to be flawed), was that we were going to get some real value out of the Al snt and with another FA big added to bring us to the salary cap and improve our team further - we would be looking at contending for the playoffs (and maybe not just the 8th spot either).

Since then it's become obvious that we are in a "holding pattern" due to the ownership mess - ooperating under an artificially low salary cap - so I guess we may as well have gone for a guy like Sene in a trade-down and gambled on 2008 or 2009.

Not giving up on us this year - but it sure didn't turn out as I had hoped. Maybe we can still compete for the 8th spot though if the young guys improve and mature a lot. I won't be placing any bets on that though.

[AHF]

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Well I do have to agree with Walter somewhat on the "potential" arguement.

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Which potential argument? That (a) big men with potential don't lose their value even they don't perform their first few years or that (b) Sene has potential?

I agree Sene has potential and could work be a huge coup for Seattle if he pans out. I do think, though, that he is a high risk pick and that others who were similarly situated have frequently failed to pan out. Given that he is not ready to contribute, I would have worked him out and unless I was blown away would not have gone with someone that raw because it is fairly likely he will be playing for another team before he really contributes even if he does pan out ala Diop.

[gsuteke]

i'm tired of having such a keen interest in the NBA draft.

i don't want the top of the draft to be relative to me anymore.

[Diesel]

I think that what some of the others fail to see is that we had a need primarily at PF... To say that we needed a Center prospect who was more than 2 years out is silly planning when we do have Zaza.

Walter talks as if Sene is the next Deke. The problem with that is that there's a big risk that he's not. One Highlight reel does not a superstar make. I can find a highlight reel of "baby Shaq" from last night that makes him look great. However, he's still Stanley Roberts all over again.

So... Back to PF.

Let's at least see how Shelden plays before we condemn him. Just because you don't like Shelden doesn't mean that he shouldn't be given a chance.

[gsuteke]

i feel bad now about posting that picture of Manute. he's a nice guy.

i'm sorry Manute, where ever you are

[Guest Walter]

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Do you know the difference between a highlight reel of plays against sub-Division I level talent in a lowly regarded foreign league and meaningful scouting? If you put any number of big men against that level of competition and then selectively editted it to take his best moments you would end up with something making the guy look like a star. There weren't many blocks there that I haven't seen from Shagari against guys like Andrew Bogut who are better than anyone Shagari faced in that league.

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There were two videos. One against the top 19 yr olds and the other against summer league rosters. 9 blocks against the 19 yr olds and 3.75 to lead the summer league. And yes, it is a highlight reel but again, if you can't tell the different between big and big with potential then don't cry when I can. It's not that hard when a green prospect outshines all other shotblockers including our own SW at the RMR.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Walter those are the same damn excuses used for MW

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Ryan Gomes, JS, Granger...MW was SIGNIFICANTLY less productive than all of them PER 48. I used the same measuring stick. You on the other hand cannot type "SW will get more BPM than Sene". Shame on you. You can't even get your accusations correct and won't even back up your complaints. I will call you Neuticals II. Grow some.

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Walter you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. a

project

sits in your garage. It's that 1969 corvette you've always wanted to restore. it's not what you spend the #5 pick in the NBA draft on man!

Shellhead will

contribute

to the Hawks team this year.

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You don't spend a top 5 pick on a ROLE PLAYER, period. SW is that and will never do more than "contribute". Sene can potentially dominate a game defensively whereas SW can only hope to hold down his position well. Just inane reasoning. You show me one GM comment that says "we wanted to get a player who could contribute this year with our top 5 pick", Can't? NO [censored]!

YOU ARE A COWARD! Put up or shut up. You can't even back up your braggadocio. Big talk. tuck tail and cower away. Seriously gsuteke, to try and call me on Sene and then to run like a chicken [censored] when called on it. Lame. Either step up or step off. You know i'm right that we needed potential at the center position more than a role player at the Pf position that benches MW or JS. You know I'm right tha BK BLEW IT by being an arrogant SOB and not trying out the top prospects. Get yourself out of this nonsense hole your in and say "SW will get more BPM than SW" or put on your mittens, but don't keep making a fool of yourself by arguing I didn't use per48 to compare MW (people argued that I did it TOO MUCH so that [censored] won't fly.) or just blowing hot air with only neuticals to back it up.

W

[gsuteke]

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Walter those are the same damn excuses used for MW

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Ryan Gomes, JS, Granger...MW was SIGNIFICANTLY less productive than all of them PER 48. I used the same measuring stick. You on the other hand cannot type "SW will get more BPM than Sene". Shame on you. You can't even get your accusations correct and won't even back up your complaints. I will call you Neuticals II. Grow some.

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Walter you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. a

project

sits in your garage. It's that 1969 corvette you've always wanted to restore. it's not what you spend the #5 pick in the NBA draft on man!

Shellhead will

contribute

to the Hawks team this year.

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You don't spend a top 5 pick on a ROLE PLAYER, period. SW is that and will never do more than "contribute". Sene can potentially dominate a game defensively whereas SW can only hope to hold down his position well. Just inane reasoning. You show me one GM comment that says "we wanted to get a player who could contribute this year with our top 5 pick", Can't? NO [censored]!

YOU ARE A COWARD! Put up or shut up. You can't even back up your braggadocio. Big talk. tuck tail and cower away. Seriously gsuteke, to try and call me on Sene and then to run like a chicken [censored] when called on it. Lame. Either step up or step off. You know i'm right that we needed potential at the center position more than a role player at the Pf position that benches MW or JS. You know I'm right tha BK BLEW IT by being an arrogant SOB and not trying out the top prospects. Get yourself out of this nonsense hole your in and say "SW will get more BPM than SW" or put on your mittens, but don't keep making a fool of yourself by arguing I didn't use per48 to compare MW (people argued that I did it TOO MUCH so that [censored] won't fly.) or just blowing hot air with only neuticals to back it up.

W

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Walter I can tell you feel like your back is against the wall because you are making this a me vs you discussion.

this is about the Hawks winning basketball games. it's not about who is right or wrong.

you are getting nowhere with these inflammatory let's throw Billy Knight off a cliff threads. believe me I've been there and it doesn't get you anywhere.

Walter if you're mad at Billy Knight I've already covered this

a. Picket in front of his house

b. start dating his daughter

calling me a "coward" is unnecessary and quite frankly out of line.

[Guest Walter]

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calling me a "coward" is unnecessary and quite frankly out of line.

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[Guest Walter]

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calling me a "coward" is unnecessary and quite frankly out of line.

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"SW will get more BPM than Saer Sene". It's that simple. If you can't after all your braggadocio, then what do you expect. You actually try to insist my prediction is wrong, but you won't state the opposite will happen. That IS cowardly. I put my opinion on the line when you asked. Why shouldn't you be held to a similar standard after you try to make fun of my opinion? It would seem obvious that if you can't type "SW will get more BPM than Saer Sene" then you are a coward. You certainly diss Sene like you believe SW will out-block him per minute for their careers much less this year. Seems like a pretty weak-ass, cowardly move to try and call someone on their opinion, they stand behind it, and you run and hide when you are asked to stand behind yours.

Maybe you're not a coward. Maybe, taking lesson from Aristotle, you realize it would be fool-hardy to make such a claim that SW will block more shots per minute than Sene, despite your laughing at the inverse prospect. That would make sense. It only costs you more cred that way.

W

[gsuteke]

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calling me a "coward" is unnecessary and quite frankly out of line.

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"SW will get more BPM than Saer Sene". It's that simple. If you can't after all your braggadocio, then what do you expect. You actually try to insist my prediction is wrong, but you won't state the opposite will happen. That IS cowardly. I put my opinion on the line when you asked. Why shouldn't you be held to a similar standard after you try to make fun of my opinion? It would seem obvious that if you can't type "SW will get more BPM than Saer Sene" then you are a coward. You certainly diss Sene like you believe SW will out-block him per minute for their careers much less this year. Seems like a pretty weak-ass, cowardly move to try and call someone on their opinion, they stand behind it, and you run and hide when you are asked to stand behind yours.

Maybe you're not a coward. Maybe, taking lesson from Aristotle, you realize it would be fool-hardy to make such a claim that SW will block more shots per minute than Sene, despite your laughing at the inverse prospect. That would make sense. It only costs you more cred that way.

W

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it's not about the stats Walter. it's about winning games.

Sheldon Williams will block more shots in the 2006-2007 NBA season than Saer Sene.

and most importantly the Hawks will win more games than the Sonics.

It is that simple.

[Guest Walter]

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it's not about the stats Walter. it's about winning games.

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Then why did you make it about the stats. You made a big deal about whether Sene was a better shot blocker than SW. Cant' deal with it biting you in the ass then tough.

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Sheldon Williams will block more shots in the 2006-2007 NBA season than Saer Sene.

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That is utter comedy. You cry and [censored] and moan about how unrealistic it is to call Sene a better shot blocker than SW, yet you have to PAD Shellhead's stats with extra MPG because he's 23 with experience and not 20 without it on a team with 2 other center prospects.

When the MPG are even, Sene easily bests SW's production regardless of minutes in the summer league, earning the top honors with 3.75 BPG.

BTW, Boris Diaw blocked more shots per game than Dikembe Mutombo. Since we're not considering MPG or per48, who's the better shot blocker?

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most importantly

the Hawks will win more games than the Sonics.

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Christ. When did this become the discussion? I would argue that between 3-10+ years, all other things remaining the same, we would win considerably more games with Sene than with SW. More importantly, Sene's upside and potential defensive dominance would give us the potential to WIN GAMES OF IMPORTANCE, not bask in mediocrity. That's not even to mention Roy or Foye. We're a 26 win team. We're essentially playing against ourselves at this point.

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It is that simple.

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It's so simple you can't even type "SW will block more shots per minute than Sene".

I'll even make the wager easier for you, coward. Sene will block more shots than SW regardless of MPG I-F both players play within 8 MPG of each other. I'm willing to give SW a 8 MPG pad for BS because you are such a weak kneed coward you can't even stand behind your own noisemaking about SW being a better NBA shot-blocker than Sene. Can you even agree to that coward?

W