Bonzi Wells

[Lascar78]

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Why don't we just waive all of the backups and just run a team of Speedy, JJ, Marvin, Smoove and Childress. I mean everyone takes potential time from our young folk.

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Hopefully either Marvin or Smoove can play the PF. Probably Smoove can, but if we didn't have one or the other we would probably assume them to be small forwards for the time being (debatable). That being said, our natural positions are:

PG:Claxton/Lue/Ivey

SG:Johnson/Salim

SF:Smith/Marvin/Childress

PF:Shelden/Batista/Jones

C:Pachulia/Wright

Our recent 1st rounders (who need PT to succeed) shown in bold. The one position we do NOT need more players at is SF. How could any hawks fan possibly not see that?

Smith or Marvin hopefully will grow into PF's, we're not positive yet. Chill is clearly too slow to play the SG on D. With the team as it is now, unless we get a better starting center, all we could really use without trading anyone is a backup SG. A guy like Bonzi with an attitude problem isn't going to accept the small amount of minutes that go with being JJ's backup so he is useless here.

NO MORE SMALL FORWARDS

[gsuteke]

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it is about the basketball

right?

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Your signature would suggest otherwise.

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so is my sig funny or is it offensive?

[AHF]

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it is about the basketball

right?

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Your signature would suggest otherwise.

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so is my sig funny or is it offensive?

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Does it have to be one or the other? Funny to me.

[ATLBob]

NO NO NO NO

[gsuteke]

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NO

NO

NO

NO

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wussup BOB! you haven't posted in a while

[phx_suns]

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I for one would be extremely pissed if you guys signed Wells, as that all but assures us that we don't get the number 4 or 5 pick next year. Things are great as it is, and I hope Knight doesn't frell it all up. Leave the damn team alone. Marvin and 'Chiltz' are all the 3s that your team needs. I.E. they suck. Wells had delusions of grandeur this offseason and it costed him. I sure hope it doesn't cost us.

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It's funny that you show up in a thread that talks about Webber and his decline (and injuries) and a bloated contact when that's the situation PHX will soon have with Amare and Nash.

One will be old and broken soon and the other will be a shadow of what he was before his injury. Enjoy your short reign.

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Cute. Amare's max deal doesn't begin until this season, so from now on he can earn that contract. From all things Im hearing inside the organization things are progressing better than great. He's the most feared offensive player in the league and he's going to lead us to a title. This is our year. Don't hate.

And next time you refer to Nash, call him Mr. back-to-back MVP. Im sure Claxton will after we blow you guys out by 40 when we play. Also, inferior team's fanbase love to say how old and broken he is. So old and broken that he averaged 19 and 10(even more in the playoffs) shooting over 50% from the field, over 40% from behind the arc, and over 90% from the line. If thats broken down, then what condition are your players in? Hmmm

But this isn't about my team, this is about Bonzi Wells. Wells would be a huge improvement over anyone of your SFs. He'll easily give you guys 6-10 more wins and that would piss me off. Understand this, next year I wouldn't care if you guys won 60 games and went to the finals. But this upcoming season will determine our draft pick, so to put it bluntly I want your team to suck, and they will. I just hope that Knight doesn't make a smart decision for a change and bring in Wells.

[Lascar78]

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From all things Im hearing inside the organization things are progressing better than great.

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Haha, that's what they always say. Hell that's what they were saying before his last comeback that lasted all of 3 games. His game was 100% based on athleticism, and he is unlikely to ever fully recover.

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And next time you refer to Nash, call him Mr. back-to-back MVP.

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Ummm, no one wsa questioning how good Nash has been. We are questioning how old he is and his impending decline (read: hasn't happened yet, but will happen). Which is why he said "enjoy your short reign". To which you basically responded, "no, we're about to reign this year". Real smart guy.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Why don't we just waive all of the backups and just run a team of Speedy, JJ, Marvin, Smoove and Childress. I mean everyone takes potential time from our young folk.

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Hopefully either Marvin or Smoove can play the PF. Probably Smoove can, but if we didn't have one or the other we would probably assume them to be small forwards for the time being (debatable). That being said, our natural positions are:

PG:Claxton/Lue/Ivey

SG:Johnson/Salim

SF:Smith/Marvin/Childress

PF:Shelden/Batista/Jones

C:Pachulia/Wright

Our recent 1st rounders (who need PT to succeed) shown in bold. The one position we do NOT need more players at is SF. How could any hawks fan possibly not see that?

Smith or Marvin hopefully will grow into PF's, we're not positive yet. Chill is clearly too slow to play the SG on D. With the team as it is now, unless we get a better starting center, all we could really use without trading anyone is a backup SG. A guy like Bonzi with an attitude problem isn't going to accept the small amount of minutes that go with being JJ's backup so he is useless here.

NO MORE SMALL FORWARDS

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You are saying that as if positions mean anything to this team. The point is that we need to take any opportunity we have to increase the overall talent on this team...with good relatively cheap talent. It will also help us with the less knowledgeable fans who think that we have done absolutely nothing this summer.

[gsuteke]

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I for one would be extremely pissed if you guys signed Wells, as that all but assures us that we don't get the number 4 or 5 pick next year. Things are great as it is, and I hope Knight doesn't frell it all up. Leave the damn team alone. Marvin and 'Chiltz' are all the 3s that your team needs. I.E. they suck. Wells had delusions of grandeur this offseason and it costed him. I sure hope it doesn't cost us.

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It's funny that you show up in a thread that talks about Webber and his decline (and injuries) and a bloated contact when that's the situation PHX will soon have with Amare and Nash.

One will be old and broken soon and the other will be a shadow of what he was before his injury. Enjoy your short reign.

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Cute. Amare's max deal doesn't begin until this season, so from now on he can earn that contract. From all things Im hearing inside the organization things are progressing better than great. He's the most feared offensive player in the league and he's going to lead us to a title. This is our year. Don't hate.

And next time you refer to Nash, call him Mr. back-to-back MVP. Im sure Claxton will after we blow you guys out by 40 when we play. Also, inferior team's fanbase love to say how old and broken he is. So old and broken that he averaged 19 and 10(even more in the playoffs) shooting over 50% from the field, over 40% from behind the arc, and over 90% from the line. If thats broken down, then what condition are your players in? Hmmm

But this isn't about my team, this is about Bonzi Wells. Wells would be a huge improvement over anyone of your SFs. He'll easily give you guys 6-10 more wins and that would piss me off. Understand this, next year I wouldn't care if you guys won 60 games and went to the finals. But this upcoming season will determine our draft pick, so to put it bluntly I want your team to suck, and they will. I just hope that Knight doesn't make a smart decision for a change and bring in Wells.

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your post is ignorant. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams will both outperform Bonzi Wells the season.

Your attempt at trolling is very weak.

please, give me a response. I want to allow you the opportunity to show that latest post wasn't the only thing ignorant you have to offer.

[exodus]

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Now I'm a "so-called" fan because I don't want Bonzi Wells?

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D@mn right! You're obviously just a poser.

[Lascar78]

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You are saying that as if positions mean anything to this team. The point is that we need to take any opportunity we have to increase the overall talent on this team...with good relatively cheap talent. It will also help us with the less knowledgeable fans who think that we have done absolutely nothing this summer.

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Positions better mean something if we hope to win.

You don't just add talent regardless of position and chemistry. This is basketball, not baseball.

Bonzi Well would require minutes and they would come directly from Chill, Marvin, and Smith's minutes. Even if he accepted a decrease in minutes from 32 MPG to 21 or so, that's still 7 MPG less EACH for Chill, Marvin, and Smith. Given that it's already going to be extremely difficult to get everyone minutes, that would be disastrous.

Our long term success hinges on Marvin and Smith's development HEAVILY. No idea why you would bring in a guy who will impede that development AND teach them bad habits.

Horrible idea. Luckily, it's not something BK would consider.

[phx_suns]

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I for one would be extremely pissed if you guys signed Wells, as that all but assures us that we don't get the number 4 or 5 pick next year. Things are great as it is, and I hope Knight doesn't frell it all up. Leave the damn team alone. Marvin and 'Chiltz' are all the 3s that your team needs. I.E. they suck. Wells had delusions of grandeur this offseason and it costed him. I sure hope it doesn't cost us.

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It's funny that you show up in a thread that talks about Webber and his decline (and injuries) and a bloated contact when that's the situation PHX will soon have with Amare and Nash.

One will be old and broken soon and the other will be a shadow of what he was before his injury. Enjoy your short reign.

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Cute. Amare's max deal doesn't begin until this season, so from now on he can earn that contract. From all things Im hearing inside the organization things are progressing better than great. He's the most feared offensive player in the league and he's going to lead us to a title. This is our year. Don't hate.

And next time you refer to Nash, call him Mr. back-to-back MVP. Im sure Claxton will after we blow you guys out by 40 when we play. Also, inferior team's fanbase love to say how old and broken he is. So old and broken that he averaged 19 and 10(even more in the playoffs) shooting over 50% from the field, over 40% from behind the arc, and over 90% from the line. If thats broken down, then what condition are your players in? Hmmm

But this isn't about my team, this is about Bonzi Wells. Wells would be a huge improvement over anyone of your SFs. He'll easily give you guys 6-10 more wins and that would piss me off. Understand this, next year I wouldn't care if you guys won 60 games and went to the finals. But this upcoming season will determine our draft pick, so to put it bluntly I want your team to suck, and they will. I just hope that Knight doesn't make a smart decision for a change and bring in Wells.

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your post is ignorant. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams will both outperform Bonzi Wells the season.

Your attempt at trolling is very weak.

please, give me a response. I want to allow you the opportunity to show that latest post wasn't the only thing ignorant you have to offer.

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Thats because Im not trying to troll. My whole beef with the organization is solely on Knight and his brain-dead decisions over the last for years that have brought a losing mentality to your city. And you guys don't deserve that. When Belkin gets rid of him you're organization will do a 180, guarenteed.

I didn't intend on bringing Amare or Nash into this thread, but the guy called Amare washed up without even seeing him on the court this year. Still I guarentee he will put up better numbers than anyone on your team, including wanna-be all-star Joe Johnson. And to hope against hope that Nash suddenly becomes a dog on the court is the height of stupidity. The guy will age like Stockton, and may play until he is 40. Our window is open as long as he can go, and he will be good for a long time.

And Wells no doubt was playing for a contract, but he is still far and beyond the bust Marvin Williams, and Childress whose nothing more than a bench players for 28 other teams. I can't fathom why anyone would be against bringing him in. Its not like he will hamper the growth of Williams and Childress. They aren't going to be good players anyways. Right now your city needs some hope, something that shows them that the organization is trying to win some games. This would be a win-win for Atlanta. But like I said, I hope it doesn't happen this year. Next year I'll be rooting for your team.

[AHF]

If we are assessing players I would say that:

You are right about Amare with the exception that I think you downplay the risk of longterm damage from the injury, ala former Sun Antonio McDyess. I suspect Amare will return to form but there has to be some concern about the risk of reinjury and the risk of failing to fully recover given the degree to which his game depends on athleticism.

I also think you are a little optimistic about Nash. He is not the same as Stockton (especially defensively) and the Suns play a much more physically demanding style as far as racing up and down the court than the Jazz did when Stockton played. I think he is a much higher risk to "fall off the wagon" due to age than Stockton was. However, that is really uncertain given that Nash has played better with the Suns than at any time in his career. He could easily stay an elite PG or at least remain a standout for the next several years. I do think, though, that expecting him to age like Stockton is asking a lot.

I think you are overly critical of Marvin Williams - particularly trying to label him a bust. He is the equivalent of a sophmore who left college; he improved every month last year until he 12 points and 6 rebounds per game last April; and he then was MVP of the summer league in which the Hawks played. Calling him a bust is at least premature and at most totally unwarranted.

In fact, in light of Marvin and several other player's development and age, I don't think anyone who replaced BK could do anything but expect significant and immediate improvement over the last two years. The team is in a pretty good place for that, IMO.

I would like to believe that you will be rooting for the Hawks this year but have trouble taking that at face value given that the Suns stand to inherit a lottery pick if the Hawks don't reach their full potential. That is a bit like expecting me to believe a Bulls fan was rooting for the Knicks last year.

[CBAreject]

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I can't fathom why anyone would be against bringing him in.

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The fact that Bonzi Wells has yet to generate significant interest in his services, let alone a major contract offer should indicate to you there are reasons. Aside from that, throughout this thread, we have reiterated the reasons for not bringing him in (takes minutes, hampers development, has a bad attitude, may influence young players with bad habits). In spite of all of this, you still say you "can't fathom" why anyone would be against it? So, have you not been reading? Usually when someone says "I can't fathom" it's because no one has explained their case to him. After the case has been explained, which it has, you may disagree with the reasons, but you should at least be able to "fathom" why we are against it, unless you haven't read the posts in this thread.

Now, as a person who likes to understand the rules of argument and logic, let me point out the key disagreement, so that we don't keep hashing this out.

Our argument against bringing Bonzi in is largely based upon two major premises: 1) Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, and/or Josh Childress have very real potential to be very good; 2) This team's future success is predicated upon the development of said players

From your post, it seems that it is not our argument that you disagree with. Rather, it's the assumptions. Note that you said, yourself...

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Its not like he will hamper the growth of Williams and Childress. They aren't going to be good players anyways.

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Now, the above isn't logical in the first place (the reason he won't hamper their growth is that they won't be good anyway). I think you mean that because they won't be good players, we should not be concerned about their growth. That gets back to our major premise.

Why is it important to distinguish such things? There's no point in continually restating your argument when you disagree with the underlying assumptions. You need to backup and have a different discussion about the validity of those assumptions.

In this case, the discussion we should be having is whether Marvin Williams or Josh Smith has significant potential, and whether we should attempt to cultivate that. We are clearly disagreed over that subject, so there is no way we can see eye-to-eye on the question of signing Wells.

[phx_suns]

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If we are assessing players I would say that:

You are right about Amare with the exception that I think you downplay the risk of longterm damage from the injury, ala former Sun Antonio McDyess. I suspect Amare will return to form but there has to be some concern about the risk of reinjury and the risk of failing to fully recover given the degree to which his game depends on athleticism.

I also think you are a little optimistic about Nash. He is not the same as Stockton (especially defensively) and the Suns play a much more physically demanding style as far as racing up and down the court than the Jazz did when Stockton played. I think he is a much higher risk to "fall off the wagon" due to age than Stockton was. However, that is really uncertain given that Nash has played better with the Suns than at any time in his career. He could easily stay an elite PG or at least remain a standout for the next several years. I do think, though, that expecting him to age like Stockton is asking a lot.

I think you are overly critical of Marvin Williams - particularly trying to label him a bust. He is the equivalent of a sophmore who left college; he improved every month last year until he 12 points and 6 rebounds per game last April; and he then was MVP of the summer league in which the Hawks played. Calling him a bust is at least premature and at most totally unwarranted.

In fact, in light of Marvin and several other player's development and age, I don't think anyone who replaced BK could do anything but expect significant and immediate improvement over the last two years. The team is in a pretty good place for that, IMO.

I would like to believe that you will be rooting for the Hawks this year but have trouble taking that at face value given that the Suns stand to inherit a lottery pick if the Hawks don't reach their full potential. That is a bit like expecting me to believe a Bulls fan was rooting for the Knicks last year.

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Good post, and at a lot of your points are well taken.

I appologize for calling Marvin a bust. Its just that he hasn't exactly been impressive like others in his draft class. But it would do me well to watch the kid another year to see if he shows something. I guess its hard to fathom why ppl would choose him over Wells. Unless they were afraid that Wells was only playing for a contract and won't give his all if he is inked.

And no Nash is not as good defensively as Stockton was. I do think Nash is just as good offensively however. The whole organization saw Steve put the team on his back last year and we were all concerned about the physcial pounding he was taking, thats why Marcus Banks will be our savior in that regards. We would love for Steve to play no more than 30-33 mins a night. If that could happen, then he very well could play for a long, long time at a high level.

About Amare, the prognosis was a 100% recovery in 18-24 months. Its only been 11 months, and everyone is expecting something in the 80 percentile to start the season, ending 90% in the playoffs. What we need most is his ability to draw fouls and get us free throws, which he should be able to do more than effectively this year. I've been around the home arena and there is definately a huge buzz going. I think the league is in for a huge surprise if they think he will be some gimp. And truthfully I think teams wish for that out of fear.

And your right about me not rooting for the Hawks in the 06-07 season. What I meant was that I will root for you guys in the 07-08 season. Its about time for the Hawks to get back into contention where they belong. Nique was one of my all time fav players, and I was rooting for Atlanta when they faced Boston all those years. Those were good times. I just feel like you guys won't experience that as long as Knight is at the helm. We'll see though.

[Guest Walter]

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About Amare, the prognosis was a 100% recovery in 18-24 months. Its only been 11 months, and everyone is expecting something in the 80 percentile to start the season, ending 90% in the playoffs.

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Is there any talk of not playing Amare this season entirely or waiting until the All-star break? His game is so much dependent upon his explosiveness. I'm sure he's busy figuring out new ways to have impact but I think for a guy this young to have his knee problems. It might be better to just lay low another year or most of it.

W

[phx_suns]

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About Amare, the prognosis was a 100% recovery in 18-24 months. Its only been 11 months, and everyone is expecting something in the 80 percentile to start the season, ending 90% in the playoffs.

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Is there any talk of not playing Amare this season entirely or waiting until the All-star break? His game is so much dependent upon his explosiveness. I'm sure he's busy figuring out new ways to have impact but I think for a guy this young to have his knee problems. It might be better to just lay low another year or most of it.

W

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It was best that the docs caught this at it's earliest stage and not years down the road. Realistically he could have played on his knee for a few yrs, but it would have gotten much worse.

As for brining him back later, the worst thing for him is to sit him down for a long period like that again. He won't let them really, as he's been dying to play with the team. Plus, the FO is trying to satisfy the fanbase that want so bad to see Amare. He and others within the organization have been saying that they expect him to be in the 80% range to start the season, with him becoming better throughtout. I don't think anyone expects him to be 100% by the playoffs. If that happens then I just might consider giving all my money to church.

He's been training with the guy that worked with Kidd, and its said that he's progressing rapidly lately. It'll only get better throughout the season. Probrably the only concern physcially will be a long road trip with multiple back-to-back games. Mentally is where most of his hurdles are. An article during the summer leagues had him saying how he's timid about dunking in traffic as of that time. Timid and Amare don't belong together. Until he regains that confidence that should he dunk on someone he won't get re-injured, Amare won't be Amare.

But I'm hearing that he is feeling more comfortable lately about letting loose on a hard slam in someone's grill. So maybe he's conconquering that mental hurdle. The season will tell.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . . these words/writing style look familiar. I think I've seen them before on the Hawks ESPN board.

[terrynoonan]

I thought this post was about Bonzi Wells sucking? He does. If anyone doesn't know.