West drafted Gooden over Stoudamire

[CBAreject]

Since the Paul vs. Williams monotony continues to dominate this board, I wanted to remind folks of this quote again. It's one of my favorites.

Jerry West on his #4 pick Drew Gooden:

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"We've got the rookie of the year," West said, flatly. "You can write that."

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A few months later, an irate West traded Gooden to the Magic to get the stink of missing on Stoudamire off his hands.

You might think West would still be getting reamed from the press, but it appears some think he's doing just GREAT. Winning 50 games will make a lot of folks ignore the actual moves you've made. Here's a year-old article on the questions West has to answer as a GM of the Grizz.

Notice how the article admits West had flubbed the draft every year. In spite of that, it goes on to say West "did exactly what was asked of him" and this disgusting quote:

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But isn't the bottom line the number of wins and losses? Isn't that how NBA executives are measured?

The Grizzlies had never won more than 23 games before West. In the three years since he arrived, they've won 28, 50 and 45.

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So, West flubbed the draft, but he should be applauded for turning the Grizz around? Yeah, that sure was a great trade he made for Pau Gasol. I mean he really fleeced that Babcock. Oh wait. That was Billy Knight.

Essentially, West made some MAJOR draft blunders, and failed to improve his team, but he's still getting his sack massaged by the press.

If I were BK, I sure would be bitter. Billy Knight has improved the Hawks, but he is being crucified for making the pick everyone thought he should make. Billy Knight built the Grizzlies, and he's outdrafted West, but West is getting the credit. West refused to come here because he felt we were in a horrible situation with contracts. That's exactly the same situation Memphis was in before Knight bailed them out, which is the same thing he did here. Knight sure does a lot of dirty work with little respect.

BTW, Walter, this is not a support Billy Knight or Marvin Williams thread. It's a "look everyone makes drafting errors...but not everyone gets criticized for it" thread. Please don't post some repetitive diatribe about having so much "capitol" [sic] and not improving or a 2 SF line-up.

[Guest]

well in that case, Hail BK for being able to pick in the top 5 every year.

Give me a break, he makes a draft blunder. Wow. He ended up turning that blunder into Mike Miller. And Stoudamire was never a highly touted prospect (like Paul). It was an extremely weak draft class and West was able to get a productive piece out of a top 10 pick, only Yao, Stoudamire, and Butler are also productive.

West has made results, if BK stayed in Memphis Sidney Lowe would still be coaching and there is no guarantee that he would have gotten 50 wins. West has experience creating teams (see...the Lakers), BK has experience of being the GM of some of the worst teams in the history of the NBA.

[terrynoonan]

Wow! I didn't know who to respond to. You guys are both right.

On the one hand he's kept Mike Woodson, signed Al Harrington, signed Barry and didn't make Woodson play him. etc.

But on the other, he's traded Al, traded for Joe, traded Reef.

Josh Smith is a future All-Defense member.

Joe is an All-Star. I don't care what anyone says.

He had the courage to take a guy with maybe the ugliest, most childlike J ever(Childress) because he can actually play despite that.

Also had the courage to take Marvin. feeling for the long term instead of momentary backcourt improvement.

People can call him "sheldu" or whatever but at least Sheldon seems to understand the importance of stopping someone.

So I guess I'm still hoping for Billy to succeed. I really like this team now that Al is gone! This team has a chance but Woodson has shown us nothing in the way of game tactics.

I'm afraid even if he fired Woodson he wouldn't know who to hire.

45-37!! We can do it!

[Packfill]

Quote:

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Since the Paul vs. Williams monotony continues to dominate this board, I wanted to remind folks of this quote again. It's one of my favorites.

Jerry West on his #4 pick Drew Gooden:

Quote:

---

"We've got the rookie of the year," West said, flatly. "You can write that."

---

A few months later, an irate West traded Gooden to the Magic to get the stink of missing on Stoudamire off his hands.

You might think West would still be getting reamed from the press, but it appears some think he's doing just GREAT. Winning 50 games will make a lot of folks ignore the actual moves you've made. Here's a year-old article on the questions West has to answer as a GM of the Grizz.

Notice how the article admits West had flubbed the draft every year. In spite of that, it goes on to say West "did exactly what was asked of him" and this disgusting quote:

Quote:

---

But isn't the bottom line the number of wins and losses? Isn't that how NBA executives are measured?

The Grizzlies had never won more than 23 games before West. In the three years since he arrived, they've won 28, 50 and 45.

---

So, West flubbed the draft, but he should be applauded for turning the Grizz around? Yeah, that sure was a great trade he made for Pau Gasol. I mean he really fleeced that Babcock. Oh wait. That was Billy Knight.

Essentially, West made some MAJOR draft blunders, and failed to improve his team, but he's still getting his sack massaged by the press.

If I were BK, I sure would be bitter. Billy Knight has improved the Hawks, but he is being crucified for making the pick everyone thought he should make. Billy Knight built the Grizzlies, and he's outdrafted West, but West is getting the credit. West refused to come here because he felt we were in a horrible situation with contracts. That's exactly the same situation Memphis was in before Knight bailed them out, which is the same thing he did here. Knight sure does a lot of dirty work with little respect.

BTW, Walter, this is not a support Billy Knight or Marvin Williams thread. It's a "look everyone makes drafting errors...but not everyone gets criticized for it" thread. Please don't post some repetitive diatribe about having so much "capitol" [sic] and not improving or a 2 SF line-up.

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The bottom line is that: WINS = RESPECT; LOSSES = DISRESPECT.

West has earned respect because his teams have won games. Same reason Joe Dumars does not get killed for the Darko pick and subsequent trade - his teams win games. Similarly, a guy like Steve Nash is univerally regarded as one of the games best while Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis (two incredibly talented players) are regarded as wastes - because their teams don't win and Nash's teams do.

Until BK wins puts a team on the floor that has a winning season he will not get any respect. It really is as simple as that. In his 4+ years as a GM in Memphis and Atlanta he has yet to have a team win 30 games. You can make excuses all you want about youth and salary cap purges but bottom line he has one of the all time worst won-lost records of any GM in history. If he quit today that is all people will remember about him.

I don't understand why people don't get this.

[CBAreject]

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I don't understand why people don't get this.

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It's funny how you imply I just "don't get this" when I stated it myself, saying "winning 50 games" makes up for drafting blunders.

[CBAreject]

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this is not a support Billy Knight or Marvin Williams thread. It's a "look everyone makes drafting errors...but not everyone gets criticized for it" thread.

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You wasted no time in ignoring what I said. Good job!

Notice that my point was not that BK is better than West (or even comparable). That was the argument you wanted to have, though, so you sure did have it...with yourself. What else do you have with yourself?

[Guest]

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this is not a support Billy Knight or Marvin Williams thread. It's a "look everyone makes drafting errors...but not everyone gets criticized for it" thread.

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You wasted no time in ignoring what I said. Good job!

Notice that my point was not that BK is better than West (or even comparable). That was the argument you wanted to have, though, so you sure did have it...with yourself. What else do you have with yourself?

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Sorry for not reading something that started off saying "BTW, Walter". I ignored it because...I am not Walter.

I do see where you are coming from, but I ignored what you said because the way you said it was directed towards a specific poster who I don't think I am like except in the broad sense that we both do not like BK.

Oh and by the way, my post was more in defense of Jerry West and less in attacking BK/Marvin.

[Packfill]

I was not implying that you don't get it - there are legions on this board that constantly complain that BK/Hawks get no respect. All I am saying is that they should not be surprised given the teams won/loss record the past several years.

And yes, as you pointed out, a 50 win season does wash away the taint of bad moves. Look at the Clippers - long derided as one of the worst franchises in the NBA, they are now one of the "hot" teams in the league.

BK has always been good at drafting talented players with lottery selections, but he needs to add on court production from a team to his resume.

If the Hawks win 50 this year you can guarantee thay no one will be bringing up the Chris Paul debate again.

[Guest Walter]

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BTW, Walter, this is not a support Billy Knight or Marvin Williams thread. It's a "look everyone makes drafting errors...but not everyone gets criticized for it" thread. Please don't post some repetitive diatribe about having so much "capitol" [sic] and not improving or a 2 SF line-up.

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Should Billy ever build a dynasty perhaps he can hope for such forgiveness. As for now, he's the losingest GM ever in the history of the NBA. Does that warrant a pass when he has only drafted forwards with his first rd picks, made two consecutive top 5 pick mistakes costing a ROY last year a ta position of need and likely one this year, traded an MIP as a "throw-in", etc.?

I mean give me a break. I don't like what West has done (or not done), but he didn't bring in a pet coach for the second time (see Lowe) and it's not like he's the losingest GM in NBA history either. You can earn slack but BK certainly has never even come far enough to.

W

[bonethugz]

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I don't understand why people don't get this.

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It's funny how you imply I just "don't get this" when I stated it myself, saying "winning 50 games" makes up for drafting blunders.

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not quite, winning 50 games can't make up for drafting bluners. winning championships make up for drafting blunders. that's why dumars is safe for drafting darko. i know what you know. this happen everyday everywhere. life is unfair.

ps, whoever said that was a weak draft(2002)? please check again.