Packfill Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Quote: Quote: i don't think that is true. he starts in the 7 million range and ends up making in the 11 range at the end of the deal. I think he perhaps signed a front loaded deal, similar to JJ. On paper it's the same total amount paid out, but if you get $4 million today it's worth more now than in 5 years. A front-loaded deal is a benefit to the player. He gets the money now and can earn interest off of it over the life of the contract. When you are talking about a few million dollars, the interest on that if invested soundly is real money. It is a win-win for player and franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Quote: Kirk gets his money either way, but it was nice gesture for him to make. Not many players would be willing to have the money be the lowest in the year they enter FA. actually, u WANT to have it upfront finance 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudderfudder77 Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Quote: Quote: Kirk gets his money either way, but it was nice gesture for him to make. Not many players would be willing to have the money be the lowest in the year they enter FA. actually, u WANT to have it upfront finance 101 You're right. I was thinking more of what he would be making when he entered FA - but you are right that he benefits more by having the money upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Quote: I knew somebody like Walter will say that Bynum is good and we should of get him after that game he had last night, but this is way over the line. 6'8" safe pick role playing Pfs will not win us championships at this point. We all (SHOULD) know it, but most seem content to have some strange faith in BK when talent and a well built team are what wins titles. There was a window of opportunity with Bynum and we didn't try nearly hard enough. That's consistent with this GM. Not trying hard enough or getting it done in terms of getting the right player. Wrong on MW, wrong on SW, wrong by omission not getting the right type center. If we wait until all the prospects are proven we can't afford them or won't be able to get them period. We've spent all our draft capitol. We're in serious rebuilding trouble now. W WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Let's not crown him great because he had a good game against a team who do not have a legit center. Let's see how he does when he has to provide tough low post play. How many teams have a legit center? That's part of the point. If Bynum even becomes a 17/8 type of center he is worth more than say a 20/8 Marvin. Centers are something that can give you a real advange if you have one. It's the same old story... Apart from the Detroit title, teams with 7 foot big men win the titles. That's the way the trend has been since 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: How many teams have a legit center? That's part of the point. If Bynum even becomes a 17/8 type of center he is worth more than say a 20/8 Marvin. Centers are something that can give you a real advange if you have one. It's the same old story... Apart from the Detroit title, teams with 7 foot big men win the titles. That's the way the trend has been since 1999. And I believe we had a fair shot at Bynum this offseason. Offer Al and Childress, fquietly make the deal public (as this is an offer fans would want...2 high quality, even starter-quality win-now players for a prospect), that pressure and Phil and Kobe's, power, desire to "win now", and desire to not pick Bynum play into our hands. The Lakers at least publically have to refuse the offer. At least we're trying everything to get that center we need. Rather than trying everything to get that center (prospect) we need, we're making team handicapping promises at 5 to marginal top 10 picks who play Pf. If BK's willing to sell the farm in order for the "opportunity" to draft at 5 a role playing Pf, what shouldn't he be doing to get a center? W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? I don't think Bynum is better than MW now. I think he is better relative to those at his position than MW is to those at his and the center position is more important overall and to us. However, the reason I stressed making a serious offer for Bynum was in order to play MW and JS on the court together without conceeding the post. I'd still love Bynum but we can't afford him now after his price went up. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Bynum>Marvin Williams It's not really an attack on Marvin... But it's more easy to get a 20/7 forward than it is a 17/8 center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzachary Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Bynum>Marvin Williams It's not really an attack on Marvin... But it's more easy to get a 20/7 forward than it is a 17/8 center. I don't think that's really true: forwards who averaged 20/7: (includes F-Cs AND G-Fs) elgin baylor bob pettit (f-c) oscar robertson (g-f) malone bird julius erving (g-f) paul arizin (g-f) dan issel (c-f) webber (f-c) elvin hayes (f-c) billy cunningham (f-c) moses malone (c-f) grant hill kevin garnett elton brand charles barkley tim duncan dirk nowitzki marques johnson TOTAL: 19 centers who averaged 17/8: (including F-Cs) wilt shaq pettit (f-c) kareem © mikan dan issel (c-f) olajuwon webber (f-c) robinson ewing elvin hayes (f-c) billy cunningham (f-c) moses malone (c-f) walt bellamy bob lanier amare stoudamire (?) neil johnston spencer haywood (f-c) brad daugherty willis reed (c-f) tom heinson (f-c) dolph schayes! (f-c) alonzo mourning bob mcadoo joe barry carroll dave cowens bob rule jeff ruland artis gilmore clyde lovellette TOTAL: 30 and yes.. some names do appear on both lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Quote: Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Bynum>Marvin Williams It's not really an attack on Marvin... But it's more easy to get a 20/7 forward than it is a 17/8 center. I don't think that's really true: forwards who averaged 20/7: (includes F-Cs AND G-Fs) elgin baylor bob pettit (f-c) oscar robertson (g-f) malone bird julius erving (g-f) paul arizin (g-f) dan issel (c-f) webber (f-c) elvin hayes (f-c) billy cunningham (f-c) moses malone (c-f) grant hill kevin garnett elton brand charles barkley tim duncan dirk nowitzki marques johnson TOTAL: 19 centers who averaged 17/8: (including F-Cs) wilt shaq pettit (f-c) kareem © mikan dan issel (c-f) olajuwon webber (f-c) robinson ewing elvin hayes (f-c) billy cunningham (f-c) moses malone (c-f) walt bellamy bob lanier amare stoudamire (?) neil johnston spencer haywood (f-c) brad daugherty willis reed (c-f) tom heinson (f-c) dolph schayes! (f-c) alonzo mourning bob mcadoo joe barry carroll dave cowens bob rule jeff ruland artis gilmore clyde lovellette TOTAL: 30 and yes.. some names do appear on both lists How many 20/7 forwards vs. 17/8 c's in the league now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzachary Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: How many 20/7 forwards vs. 17/8 c's in the league now? Not sure what criteria you are looking for? Ones that have averaged 20/7 or 17/8 for the first 2 games of the season? or 2005-2006? or any one season in their careers? The players I listed above are ones that did it for their entire careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Centers are something that can give you a real advange if you have one. It's the same old story... Apart from the Detroit title, teams with 7 foot big men win the titles. That's the way the trend has been since 1999. Let's be specific here because you are talking about two players: Shaq and Duncan. That's why I lament not going harder after Dwight Howard because he has a chance to be that once a generation big that always gives you a chance at a title. Bynum looks like a nice piece, but I'm not putting him in the Shaq and Duncan class yet. May I thread jack a little, and ask if anyone remembers what chance we had at landing Howard? I remember some rumors about us trading JT, #6, and #17 to move up for Howard, but I don't remember anything substantial about the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: ...I don't think Bynum is better than MW now. I think he is better relative to those at his position than MW is to those at his and the center position is more important overall and to us... That's a good point - I hadn't really thought about it that way. Of course it's not possible to prove that through statistics or anything...but it does make some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksFan87 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 No way he will never be better than Marvin, Marvis is going to be a star in this league for sure he has already shown he has the tools to dominate. Bynum has one good game and he's a young Shaq please it's not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Quote: Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Bynum>Marvin Williams It's not really an attack on Marvin... But it's more easy to get a 20/7 forward than it is a 17/8 center. So you are saying that Bynum will be better than Marvin?? We shall see that. I thought you were saying that Bynum is better than Marvin right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBoyIsBack Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Quote: Quote: Ok, in his second game of the season he had 5 points 4 rebounds 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. So is Marvin>>>Bynum now?? Bynum>Marvin Williams It's not really an attack on Marvin... But it's more easy to get a 20/7 forward than it is a 17/8 center. You think a 20/7 forward is a dime a dozen? BTW, it was one game. Oh then again, I forgot you're one of those people that make extreme judgments after one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Quote: ...You think a 20/7 forward is a dime a dozen? Well they're not...but Walter has a point...a 15/12 dominating inside center is better than a really good small forward....generally. Centers change the game, SFs don't unless they are Birds or MJs...and even in that case they need a Parrish or Jabbar-type center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBoyIsBack Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Quote: Quote: ...You think a 20/7 forward is a dime a dozen? Well they're not...but Walter has a point...a 15/12 dominating inside center is better than a really good small forward....generally. Centers change the game, SFs don't unless they are Birds or MJs...and even in that case they need a Parrish or Jabbar. Well guess what? We have a pretty darn solid Center in Zaza Pachulia. And this is coming from a guy who absolutely hated Zaza last year. THe fact of the matter is the man is severely underrated. He's one of the best offensive rebounders in the game and he's a great compliment to Joe Johnson when the defense collapses down on him. He could easily be our 15/12 guy. We don't need no stikin Bynum. Many people also forget how young Zaza is. It's basically like we drafted Bogut AND Marvin Williams with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Is Bynum already better than John Konkak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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