Here is where BK really screwed up...

[TexasPete]

I watched Louis play 20 times in HS. Yes, he was the most dominant and exciting kid I ever saw at the HS level and that includes Dwight Howard who just dunked on guys.

[Guest Walter]

Nobody expect every pick to be the best pick in terms of talent and need for the team, but BK is simply sad. He may have passed øn two ROY in a row. I didn't hate the Salim pick (as it is hard to "hate" 2nd rd selections since they are generally not deemed to be impact players) but certainly wanted Monta more, same with Duhon over Ivey.

To be frank with you, I'd settle for him getting on of our 1st rd picks in the last two years correct and one of our 2nd rd picks in the last 3 years correct. That's a 40% correct drafting record and BK hasn't near managed that in the last three years. CHIll also wasn't correct over Iggy or Deng, although that isn't discussed much anymore. JS and Diaw were correct selections. Still a horrible success rate in terms of drafting the BPA/needed player and 5 straight 1st rd forwards to show for it.

W

[Guest Walter]

...has never, could never, will never build a contending team in his life.

We needed a GM to be good at 3 things.

1) Understand the need for and credibly perform a team gutting and rebuilding. BK did this. The good? Trading Big Dog for anything. Getting high lottery picks. The bad? Getting rid of Pryz. Overall good.

2) Draft the best players, preferably towards building a team. BK hasn't remotely done that. Diaw was arguably the best player available but he's been traded as a throw in. Scratch him. Chill? Slightly less than Iggy or Deng and with certainly less trade value. Not bad but less than good. MW? The then 4th 1st rd forward in 4 years. CLEARLY wasn't the best player, doesn't play an impact position like Pg, didn't fill a team need, created a forward glut. SW? Horrible. Embarassing who we drafted at 5 and how we went about drafting him. Roy is already playing Pg to close out games and is dominating. Would have been dynamite next to JJ! Multiple 2nd rd picks like Ivey, Salim, and Jones (why draft a 2nd defensive minded Pf after SW?) that passed over better players and prosepects at the same position even in Duhon, Monta, and (we'll see about Jones) crafty Craig Smith for example.

Another minus. He traded away next year's likely lotto draft pick and we still don't have enough talent (at enough and the right positions) to contend.

I don't expect BK to get the best pick everytime, just half the time or slightly less and when he does don't devalue it. BK is drafting us to AT BEST a 40 win team. We will be the next GS should BK remain. Always close to the right pick, but far enough away the playoff teams don't have to sweat.

3) Build a contending team. BK has a terrible history in this regard. Anyhow, best part? Getting JJ (excluding price for him). Worst part. Starting with coaching. As with Sidney Lowe, Woody is not head coaching material. Move on. 1 and 5, the two most important positions, inadequately manned, particularly to suit our two best forward prospects playing together. Simply a frankenstein team despite BK's attempt to plug holes including the most expensive 5th pick plug EVER in SW. Our picks will abandon us at this rate with their role. We are out of capitol. No high lotto picks. Cap space getting eaten up with increasing contracts. Soon we'll only be able to trade talent for talent, never a way to improve significantly.

BK is of no use to us now. He did the only thing he's GOOD at in destructing the previous regime's team. Since then he's been bad here, there, half good there, OK here, horrible there, wrong. No level of excellence, consistent or not, required to build a contending team. He's below mediocre and that just won't cut it.

W

[egutier]

Did Salim not average around 9 points a game last season and averaged about 15 minutes per game? Am I wrong? IF you have a guy that can average around 9 points a game and only give him 15 minutes to do it, consider yourself lucky. Sure his attitude is questionable, but the coaching staff will straiten him out eventually...Hopefully sooner than later….I do agree he needs to listen up when the coaches are talking to the players during the game…..But to criticizes him for not cheering on the team is just plain GAY!!! Don’t you have cheerleaders already doing that? GAY I say!!! GAY!!!!!

[gsuteke]

to come around here spewing your agenda after the Hawks have shown that they are turning it around.

shame on you

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Quote:

---

I would give BK a solid C+. You can't just go on the last 4 years. You have a faulty premise. Some GM's built their teams before 4 years...and still have the core in place. That doesn't mean BK is better. Here are some GM's I rank over BK...

Washington (grunfeld) A great core recently assembled with Jamison, Arenas, Hayes, Etan Thomas, and Caron Butler)They didn't build Rome in a day...they did it in two.

NJ (Rod Thorn) One of the better GM's for awhile, an Eastern conference contender. Fleeced the raps for VC.

PHX (mainly Colangelos) Their record the last few years speaks for itself.

Chicago (paxson) My personal favorite...a nice roster 1-12. Fleeced I-Thomas.

Miami (Randy Pfund/riley) just won the ring.

Detroit (dumars) won the ring and put together a great nucleus. Blew the Darko pick. Still won ring.

San Antonio (Pops) won several rings. Maybe the best in the league.

Lakers (Kupchak) two years after Shaq and a couple of nice drafts have them contending. It didn't take these guys long.

Dallas (little nellie) They have been bad this year, that won't last. Look at their draft history. Even their FA signings that look strange (Diop) work out. Josh Howard was a steal.

LA Clips (baylor) don't laugh...Elgin is now allowed to spend money and they have as much depth 1-10 as any team in the league. A ton of talent but too many gunners. Anyway, these guys have pieces and lots of them...Livingston, Kaman, Brand, SamIAm, Cuttino, Ross, Maggette, etc.

Milwaukee (Larry Harris) not there yet but these guys have some nice pieces. Fleeced younger colangelo getting Charlie V. for a marginal and undersized PG. This guy has done a nice job but hired a crap coach.

Indy (Donnie) Has done a nice job over the years. Got JO for a snickers and a coke. Got Al for just a coke.

There are some others in the same league with Billy. I probably would put Utah ahead of BK but I can't think of the guys name. There is my list and I'm sure you will tear it to pieces...its the popular thing to do.

---

Washington - I agree. The main thing they did, was make a play for a player that was showing a lot of potential ( Arenas ). Kind of like we did with JJ. But that team didn't start from scratch like we did. They used their young guys to trade for veteran players . . like the Hawks used to do back in the 90s. It's funny though. The only Wizards original 1st round pick still on the Wiz's roster from the last 4 drafts, is Jarvis Hayes. Everybody else has been traded or released.

Jersey - Yes, they have Vince. But that team isn't any better of a squad than they were 4 years ago. They have 2 all-star players ( Kidd and Carter ) and a very good #3 option in Jefferson. So why can't this team win more than 50 games in a weak Eastern Conference?

Suns - Can't argue with this. When you draft Amare, acquire Nash, and implement a perfect system to compliment those players, that's a pretty good job. Even the JJ deal has worked out for them, even though they gave up an All-Star caliber player, for a great role player in Diaw, and future draft picks.

Chicago - I disagree. I disagree only because we're basically on the same 4 year track that Chicago has been on. That team won 30 games 4 years ago . . digressed to 23 wins . . then made the quantum leap to 47 wins in year 3. We may not get to 47 wins, but we may get to 40, which would make our 3 year run of 13, 26, and 40 wins much more impressive than the Bulls ascention. The Bulls have a nice collection of young players. We do too, but we also have a potential superstar player in JJ. Hinrich and Gordon are too inconsistent right now to be at that level. They may get there one day though.

Miami - Well dang. They have the most dominant big man in the game. And they got him by default because he wanted to leave LA, and they had enough young guys to trade for him, and still keep D-Wade. Their front office has done a great job though.

Detroit - that's a no-brainer. They acquire a bunch of players that most teams have given up on to be the #1 guy, and convince all of them to work within a team setting, deferring to whomever has the hot hand on any given night.

San Antonio - The Spurs have been a great team for the past 7 years. If you're talking about the last 4 years, the only moves they've made, has been to bring in Brent Barry and Michael Finley. 5 years ago, they picked a diamond out of the rough in Manu, so you have to give them props for that. And 6 years ago, they did it with Tony Parker. So the core of that team has played together going on 5 seasons now. Our core is just in their 2nd season.

Dallas - Totally agree. They lose Nash and Finley in consecutive years, and become a better team.

LA Clippers - ONLY because of the Sam Cassell trade ( which shows you just how stupid Kevin McHale is . . LOL @ him trading Cassell for Marko Jaric, plus he gave the Clips a draft pick ). That trade gave them a bonafide leader and a playoff veteran that knows how to go to war. They've had nice draft picks, but without Sam, they'd still be struggling to break .500

Milwaukee - TOTALLY DISAGREE. Milwaukee was on the verge of making the NBA finals 6 years ago with Big Dog, Allen, and Cassell. Since then, they've won 41, 42, 41, 30, and 40 games. Redd has blossomed into a star, but they're still mixing and matching pieces around him. They haven't done a better job than us.

Indy - totally disagree again. JO has been there for years. What have they done since acquiring JO? They made one good run 3 years ago. Artest is gone. And Harrington is back. Not good for Indy.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Give BK a B for the past 3 years.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

to come around here spewing your agenda after the Hawks have shown that they are turning it around.

shame on you

---

I don't believe this team will become more than mediocre remotely as designed. Any GM but Isaiah Thomas can acheive mediocrity.

W

[AtLaS]

damn Walter, you have GOT to let up sometime. We could win the championship 4-2, and you'd criticize because didn't we win it 4-0.

Be happy we are actually doing OK now, we haven't been to the playoffs in 7+ years! BK's been here 3 so it's not like BK is the only one.

And shall I repeat it, you were COMPLETELY against drafting Chris Paul. Deron Williams would have helped but not that much.

Although I didn't agree with the Marvin pick either, you criticized it because we already had so many forwards and didn't draft for need. But this PAST draft you wanted us to draft Roy who is a sg NOT a pg, and you go on to criticize that a 26 win team should NEVER draft on need (Williams - Interior D), yet the year before when we were a 13 win team and drafted the TOP ranked player by more than 75% of draft guru's you criticized it. Quit contradicting yourself man.

I'll say it again Roy can NOT play pg for us, that would make JJ the part time pg also which we don't need (look how well he's playing as SOLELY sg). Roy would get downright DESTROYED by quick opposing PG's, and if you say otherwise you are in a serious denial. And if I remember correctly Jarrett Jack is playing 30 mpg for Portland, which means Roy is in fact NOT playing pg, if he is it's for a very SHORT period of time.. Roy has never been a starting pg in his life yet you think he's ready to come into the NBA and takeover as a STARTING pg?? That's laughable. BTW like I said, even if he could (he can't) he'd get ABUSED by quick opposing pg's. I just don't see how you don't see that. Players like Mo Williams, TJ Ford, Telfair, Rafer Alston, Ridnour, Boykins would have 20 and 10 against him NIGHTLY..

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

to come around here spewing your agenda after the Hawks have shown that they are turning it around.

shame on you

---

I don't believe this team will become more than mediocre remotely as designed. Any GM but Isaiah Thomas can acheive mediocrity.

W

---

fact or fiction?

choose your words wisely because you are walking into a trap son.

[AtLaS]

sorry in my above post I had it wrong about Jarrett Jack, he's actually playing 36 mpg, it's funny you say Roy is playing PG..

[AHF]

Quote:

---

sorry in my above post I had it wrong about Jarrett Jack, he's actually playing 36 mpg, it's funny you say Roy is playing PG..

---

Clearly Jack is playing SF.

[DavidSomerset]

Walter, will you at least eat some crow if the Hawks make the playoffs this year?

Can't you just be happy we are 3-1, and accept the fact that you might be wrong?

[Yeti]

Quote:

---

I'll say it again Roy can NOT play pg for us, that would make JJ the part time pg also which we don't need (look how well he's playing as SOLELY sg). Roy would get downright DESTROYED by quick opposing PG's, and if you say otherwise you are in a serious denial. And if I remember correctly Jarrett Jack is playing 30 mpg for Portland, which means Roy is in fact NOT playing pg, if he is it's for a very SHORT period of time.. Roy has never been a starting pg in his life yet you think he's ready to come into the NBA and takeover as a STARTING pg??

---

While I am also tired of the "we should have drafted" talk, I have to disagree with your facts on Roy. I followed him a long time and he HAS played PG. Roy was fourth in the PAC-10 in assists and first in assist-to-turnover ratio. As for not being able to guard other point guards - when they put him on Jordan Farmar (UCLA), Roy shut him down. He usually got assigned to guard the best 1,2, or 3 from the other team.

This was from his first NBA game:

Quote:

---

Roy's impressive debut really took off in the third quarter when Blazers coach Nate McMillan switched him from shooting guard to point guard.

---

Yes, Jack is playing PG most of the time but that doesn't mean that Roy can't. He's versatile.

This was a Seattle article just before last season:

Quote:

---

The Huskies have begun using Roy so much at the point-guard spot in practices and scrimmages that Roy said yesterday, "Point guard is turning into my primary position."

With Nate Robinson and Will Conroy gone from last year's Sweet 16 team, UW coaches have said all along they would need Roy to take on more ballhandling this season.

"I think that's his best position," Dollar said. But it's unlikely that Roy will ever be listed as the team's point guard. For starters, UW coaches detest labels about as much as they do losing. They've always encouraged versatility in their players and see this as more of the same.

Dollar also points out that Roy often was the team's primary playmaker as a sophomore before Conroy and Robinson took over more of that role last season when Roy was limited due to injuries.

Roy said he has no problem playing point. "I enjoy it," he said. "It pushes me to get into a whole lot better shape. That way, when the game starts, even if I'm not playing point guard, I can play a whole lot better on the wing because I'm used to bringing the ball up."

Roy also knows that at 6 feet 6, being able to play the point will be just another asset when the NBA draft arrives next summer.

"It's funny because [uW assistant] coach [Jim] Shaw said he thinks it's my more natural position," Roy said. "He said I look more comfortable there. I feel like I can control the tempo of a game."

---

While I am a Roy fan and think he can play point, he's not a Hawk. It does us no good to keep saying we should have drafted .. Roy, Paul, Deron, Bynum, etc. The guys we have are playing pretty good. Let's focus on them and leave the other talk for the fantasy leagues.

[GoDawgs21]

Yeti, I see your point, but just some observations. I believe the PGS's he was talking abotu guarding were the quicker guys, Nash, Kidd, Parker, JT, etc. Farmer is far from a quick PG. Secondly you say 5th in the Pac-10 in ast/to that means that he is middle of the road. He is exactly a middle of the road PG in a 10 team league that beside Farmer doesnt have a NBA pg playing. So if he is middle of the road in one conference what was his asst/to ratio against everyone that was in this draft. Adding to that, it is far easy to have a better asst/to ratio as an off-guard. He isnt bringing it up everytime down. He can get 3 asst in a game and have 1 or no turnovers and his ratio makes him look like f'n Jason Kidd.

[Yeti]

I don't want to drag this on. I just wanted to get the facts straight. By the way, he was FIRST in A/TO and fourth in assists. Just means he made a lot of assists and very few turnovers - so he can handle the ball.

[GoDawgs21]

My main point is that, that stat is skewed. Im not saying he is or isnt a great ball handler, but you cant use that he was 4th in a 10 team league. So 10 starting PG's he beat out 6. Thats like saying Chill is 5th in the South Eastern Division in rebounds. Doesn't mean he isn't good at it, but when you compare it to the whole league, or in this case all available draftees it is a meaningless stat.

[AtLaS]

JORDAN FARMAR? That's hilarious, please have a better example than that. Farmar was a pretty good college player but wasn't quick and is 6-2, Roy should be able to guard him. The players I mentioned, Ridnour, Telfair, Alston, Boykins etc would absolutely DESTROY Roy. They are quick as hell, and if were in college last year they ALL could have been the POY, but are average NBA pg's. Believe what you want, but Roy has no shot in guarding them. Do you honestly think Roy is ready to be an NBA starting pg?

I agree that you want to end this huge debate and just get the facts straight, me too I'm so sick of hearing about a player that would currently be on our bench. If you want to get the facts straight, Walter is the one who keeps saying Roy has been playing a lot of minutes at pg to support his argument, which is COMPLETELY untrue..

BTW I wonder why Walt hasn't replied to this thread yet, he took it over yesterday.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...Clearly Jack is playing SF.

---

Are you serious AHF? JJ is playing point and getting the job done pretty well.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

But I am a JJ fan.