Marvin and Chillz are not saviors...

[Diesel]

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Nah, Smith will see less time period. And all of those other guys like Bozeman, Freije, & Stodamire will see no time unless there are other injuries. Both Marvin & Childress will eventually get 30 plus minute a piece.

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Could you put some minutes where you mouth is?

It's easy to say that nobody else will play and Marvin and Chillz will get 30 MINUTES PLUS A PIECE... But I dare you to try and show me how the 240 minutes are broken down for our team...

I guess you must believe that every game, we're going into overtime??

[Diesel]

Coach,

Nobody said that they would make no difference.

I said that I'm not looking for either one of them to make us into the Bulls back in the day.

Moreover, you act as though there's a great difference between our players now and them...

What I am saying is that Marvin vs. Smoove = Probably Smoove is better.

Chillz is good but his minutes will not be high simply based on our circumstance... That being that we need a true PG on the floor and Speedy is back healthy... Lue is Speedy's BU and Lue is Playing great. We need a defensive presence on the floor and Shelden has been playing well. These are elements that were missing earlier when we had Chillz playing 37 mpg and making such a difference.

However, with him back..

Sure we have a solid player in our roster... But is his 17 mpg or less going to be that much better than the player who's playing them now...

Gosh, you guys act like we're exchaging Jordan for Pete Myers.

[thesheedera]

Diesel, I think you're addressing a very small minority that expect Marvin to be a 17-20ppg type scorer night in and night out. Most people on this board are more realistic than that.

Marvin and Childress will help the team, but obviously we won't be a championship contender with their additions. You're arguing against a completely made up argument. No one said this team is gonna be incredble with them on board.

I just hope the two of them can take the pressure off of Joe, put pressure on Smith to play the right way, and give bot of those guys some more rest, they're both playing too many minutes too early in the season.

I think a lot of posters think once we have them back along with Speedy, we can be a .500 or better ballclub. I just hope by the time they get back, we're healthy elsewhere and we haven't dug a deep hole.

[TexasPete]

Your initial post basically said that we are marginally, if any, better with Childress and MW. And I can tell you...stop smoking the crack. This team is a ton better and in so many ways I won't bother you with a long list. BTW, do you really think JJ needs to play 44 minutes a night and keep scoring 28 a game? He can't hold up over 82 with that load. The man played all summer...almost every olympian has been worn down. And they don't have a team on their back every night. Marvin and Chill will give us at least 25 ppg between them and some nights at least one will carry the load. That you even question how much better we are with those two guys makes me skeptical that you have any good basketball sense at all.

[Diesel]

I continue to read post after post stating "wait until we get Marvin and Chillz Back".

I love both guys, but our team is not going to be that much different with them back. I don't think I'm addressing a minority... all you have to do is pull up any thread about the games... When we lose: "Wait til Chillz and Marvin get back". When we give up 24 point lead " that won't happen when we get Marvin and Chillz back". When people get tired of Josh Smith chunking threes " Wait til we get Marvin and Chillz back".

What I'm saying is that Marvin is unproven and Chillz is good but he will play BU SG...

Some people are building up for a great letdown.

[Diesel]

listen up coach pete... Your tactics may work on NBA Live... but let's explain this..

For the past 3 years before this season, JJ was a 40.2 mpg player. In fact, he likes being on the floor. Right now, he's only 1 mpg above his average.

There are some players like Iverson, Kobe, and Tmac who wants to play every minute of every game that they can play... JJ is one of those.. He was pissed losing minutes to QRich.

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Making sure that Johnson, who last season broke NBA Hall of Famer Bob Pettit's 42-year-old franchise record for minutes played, has enough gas in the tank following his busy summer was a priority for Woodson.

"[We tried] not to burn him in camp," said Woodson of Johnson, who was third on the team in minutes played (29.1) during the recently completed preseason but still led the Hawks in scoring (20.7 ppg). "Joe's a pro. He knows when he can go and can't go and I understand that from a coaching standpoint. When he tells me he needs to shut it down a little bit and back off then I let him do that. If I don't push the issue some I know he'll continue to work no matter what and I don't want that because I know exactly what he can do as a player."

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[TexasPete]

JJ is carrying the load now. Its not just his minutes it is what he has to do when he is out there. He has to score every night in big numbers for us to win. Period. Its not just a physical load, it is a mental load.

This team will be light years better with both back. Light years. It gives us 25Ppg...more rebounds, better defense, spreads the scoring load and the minutes around. Oh, did I mention we will shoot another 8 free throws per game with both back? MW attacks the rim, gets players in foul trouble, puts us in the bonus earlier, and we get more points from the line. He is the best on the team at doing that. Bottom line, he isn't unproven at all. The only unproven is what is his ceiling this year? Next year his ceiling goes up again.

How a "fan" doesn't see this is a little nutty. This whole argument is like your boss telling you his is giving you an extra 10k per month in salary...and your trying to make the argument that you really don't have that much more money to spend. Diesel, you really make up some crazy stuff. Why don't you chill out and just watch how well MW and Chill do when they get back? Your argument is psychotic even by your standards.

[chillzatl]

By saying "wait until Marvin and Chillz come back", nobody is saying that we're going to be world beaters. But for you to say that we're not going to be much different with them absurd.

How can a team NOT be better when it gets two guys who play good defense and can hit shots. In Marvin's case specifically, we get another guy who can create his own shot, which is huge. Right now we have only JJ and sometimes Lue, who can create for themselves. Everyone else is an offensive dead zone unless someone can set them up. In Childress case, we get a guy who is one of our most consistent shooters and a guy who can make a difference without having any plays ran for him.

I know you're trying to make conversation, but use a little logic.

[exodus]

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I love both guys,

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*picks jaw off the floor*

Did you really just say that you LOVED MARVIN!

[gsuteke]

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I love both guys,

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*picks jaw off the floor*

Did you really just say that you LOVED MARVIN!

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Diesel no longer eats "Marvin Pooped in my cornflakes" for breakfast every morning

[Diesel]

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How can a team NOT be better when it gets two guys who play good defense and can hit shots. In Marvin's case specifically, we get another guy who can create his own shot, which is huge. Right now we have only JJ and sometimes Lue, who can create for themselves. Everyone else is an offensive dead zone unless someone can set them up. In Childress case, we get a guy who is one of our most consistent shooters and a guy who can make a difference without having any plays ran for him.

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Like I have said before...

Nothing about what you are anybody has said about Marvin is proven. When did he become a guy who can create his own shot?? What regular season game was that proven in? What I seem to recall is him dribbling with his head down until he either bounced it off of his foot or ran into somebody.

Marvin is still unproven

Also, about Chillz.

There are 240 minutes per game to be spent in 5 positions...

Show me your predicted breakdown of minutes... Show me how Chillz gets the opportunity to be as productive as he was before with Shelden, Speedy, Lue, and JJ all playing minutes... Just show me!

Show me your 240 minute break down. As long as BK/Woody sees Chillz as being JJ's backup... I don't see Chillz playing many minutes and that's unfortunate... but that's what happens when you have a logjam.

so those are my reasons for stating that we are the same team. Show me otherwise... Produce a possible, plausible rotation where we can get Chillz minutes..

[Peoriabird]

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so those are my reasons for stating that we are the same team. Show me otherwise... Produce a possible, plausible rotation where we can get Chillz minutes..

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Smith and Shelden's minutes will stabilized in the high 20's. JJ minutes will drop to the mid 30's like the were at the beginning of the season. Lue's minutes will drop to 20minutes per game and Speedy will be around 20 minutes per game. Salim, Bozeman, & Freije minutes will drop to zero.

[GoDawgs21]

Diesel just for enjoyment.

Woody has already said he would love to rest JJ and the guys more to keep them fresh all season. Our depth allowing to keep everyone fresh is what won us those 4 games in a row.

Here is what I think it will look like.

Starters: (Personally I think Shell should start over Smith, but this is what I think Woody will do)

JJ - 36 min

MW - 28 min

JS - 28 min

ZP - 30 min

SC - 28 min

Total: 150 min

Bench: These minutes will rotate depending on matchups like with Cha.small lineup Wed. night or if we are playing Det with bigs.

JC - 22 min

SW - 20 min

TL - 25 min

LO - 13 min

SS - 5 min

SJ - 5 min

MF - SOL

Total: 90

Like I said some nights Salim might get some of SW minutes and it might be 12 and 12. But there are enough minutes with quality depth to go around.

Lets not forget its an 82 game season, someone else is bound to get hurt, and it never hurts if you get in fould trouble or one guy is just off one night.

[GoDawgs21]

Possible lineups to make these minutes work. Not everything has to be cut and dry Diesel just cause Chill is backup SG doesnt mean he only plays when Joe is out.

Uptempo lineup:

Speedy, JJ, Marvin, Chill, Smith

Big Line:

JJ, Marvin, Chill, Smith, LO

Shooting Line:

Lue, Salim, JJ, Chill, (any big to reb)

Mismatches will dictate game to game which line up we play more of but for 5 minute spurts there can be a random mix of players ot get the mismatch you want. If a team goes big and you want to run them use the smaller quicker guys and visa versa. This is the first time in 7 years we have had depth and been able to adapt to who we play. We can match up wtih slower, bigger teams, we can also match up with smaller quicker teams. Thats what makes us dangerous.

Your other point about Marvin and what he has done in the NBA. Take a look at his last two months.

3/22 @Phi

L 115-106 31 8-12 .667 1-2

.500 4-5 .800 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 1 21

3/25 Dal

L 98-83 30 6-16 .375 0-1

.000 1-4 .250 0 0 0 3 3 8 11 1 13

3/26 @Orl

L 108-101 26 4-8 .500 0-0

-- 5-5 1.000 1 0 0 5 5 1 6 1 13

3/28 @Cha

L 125-117 26 6-10 .600 0-2

.000 2-2 1.000 0 0 3 5 0 0 0 0 14

3/29 Ind

W 94-93 31 4-8 .500 0-0

-- 1-1 1.000 0 0 1 0 3 2 5 2 9

3/31 Njn

L 91-88 23 2-4 .500 0-1

.000 5-6 .833 0 0 2 5 1 1 2 1 9

Numbers for March 25.4 53-110 .482 1-9 .111 49-65 .754 0.5 0.1 1.2 3.2 2.1 3.2 5.3 0.5 10.4

DATE OPP RESULT MIN FG PCT 3P PCT FT PCT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS

4/2 @Mem

L 98-87 27 3-9 .333 0-0

-- 2-2 1.000 0 1 1 2 1 3 4 2 8

4/4 @Njn

L 96-94 0 0-0 -- 0-0

-- 0-0 -- 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

4/5 Min

W 101-99 29 4-9 .444 0-0

-- 0-0 -- 0 0 0 2 1 2 3 1 8

4/7 Was

W 114-101 22 3-7 .429 0-0

-- 5-8 .625 1 1 2 1 3 3 6 0 11

4/9 @Min

L 84-83 26 1-4 .250 0-0

-- 4-4 1.000 0 0 0 1 3 3 6 0 6

4/10 @Orl

L 105-88 32 3-11 .273 0-1

.000 5-7 .714 2 0 1 1 3 4 7 1 11

4/12 Chi

L 96-90 37 4-10 .400 0-1

.000 2-2 1.000 0 0 5 3 0 7 7 0 10

4/14 Cha

L 116-110 39 9-14 .643 0-1

.000 4-5 .800 2 0 2 4 2 4 6 2 22

4/15 @Mil

W 120-114 41 6-14 .429 0-0

-- 7-7 1.000 1 1 1 3 6 4 10 3 19

4/18 Mia

W 103-100 27 6-10 .600 0-0

-- 4-7 .571 0 0 0 1 5 4 9 2 16

4/19 @Cle

L 100-99 31 6-12 .500 0-0

-- 0-0 -- 0 0 1 4 2 1 3 1 12

Numbers for April 31.1 45-100 .450 0-3 .000 33-42 .786 0.6 0.3 1.3 2.2 2.6 3.5 6.1 1.2 12.3

So as a 19 year old rookie he got 12.3 a game in his last 12 games. After working all summer on his post moves, why cant he get just 3 more in what will prob be 8 extra minutes. There is no reason to think that 15/7 is unreal. Also at 15/7 I would say we are 10-3 right now if he was healthy. Everyone talks about Josh Smith post all-star and how he looked. Marvin was equally impressive for a rookie. Everyone says summer league doesnt count preseason doesnt count. Um helllllo he played last year and you can see what he has done. That all be it as a 19 yr old rookie.

[GoDawgs21]

Do these min. make sense to you now?

[GoDawgs21]

Still waiting diesel, you asked and I muted your argument, so you cohse to ignore ???? Thats not like you.

[exodus]

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Thats not like you.

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Yes it is. Whenever he gets pwned he just leaves it alone and waits for the thread to drop off the front page.

[GoDawgs21]

i was being sarcastic

[Plainview1981]

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I keep reading about Marvin and Chillz coming to save the Hawks. We are the same team with Marvin and Chillz... we are only slightly better.

Marvin

Marvin is unproven. Smoove is actually better. A lot of people here make a big todo about Marvin's Summer League. Summer League means absolutely nothing.... Ask Foye, Sene, and Shelden about the meaning of SL? Plus it will take some time for Marvin to get into basketball shape anyway.

Chillz

Chillz is one of my favorite players, but he's still JJ's BU. The fact that JJ plays almost 42 mpg means that Chillz won't play as much. Especially being that Speedy's coming back and Lue's been huge... When does Chillz get time?

This is reality. The team we're seeing now are the Hawks... There's no hidden immunity idol...

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If Marvin can shoot some, handle the ball some, play some man to man defense he pretty much is already better than Smoove and his hollow game.

The more I watch Smoove play, the more I start to dislike his play. He seemingly has little drive to get better and his weaknesses haven't improved at all from what I've seen.

I conclude that he is Theo Ratliff with better passing ability and nothing more.