F*ck Lenny Wilkins

[Plainview1981]

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Please...

Those teams were overachievers...

In a 7 game series, they were usually exposed... but I doubt that any other coach would have taken those teams any farther.

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If they had any heart they would have played better than they did. You don't have to be overly talented to put in effort and make things tough for the other team.

[BeeSwatter]

I hold Lenny to blame as much as Babcock. While we still had some years of competitive basketball you knew you weren't going to win a championship. Look at his Mark Price/Brad Daugherty Cavs teams. They couldn't beat the Bulls before they Bulls became title contenders. Besides you do not trade Dominique ever!! Who cares what this guy thinks

[Diesel]

Trading Dominique was all Babcock's call.

And as far as the Cleveland team goes... Durability is just as important as Ability!

There are 30 teams in the league. Every year only one wins the title. Just because Charles Barkley, Pat Ewing, and Karl Malone never won a championship... It doesn't mean that they suck or that Westphaul, Riley, Nellie, or Jerry Sloan sucks...

It just means that it wasn't their time.

[BeeSwatter]

I don't want to start this old debate (we've had this discussion before) but you can't make me believe that Lenny was happy with Nique. I don't think at that point Babcock would have made the trade without consulting Lenny. Later this wasn't true (Rider). Manning was a Lenny player. As far as Cleveland goes they were soft like there coach. Never mentally tough enough to beat the Bulls. Better be glad they didn't get by them and have to face the Pistons. You make really good points but I have to disagree on this one. Nique was our identity whoever's fault it was he shouldn't have been traded.

[hawkman]

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Trading Dominique was all Babcock's call.

And as far as the Cleveland team goes... Durability is just as important as Ability!

There are 30 teams in the league. Every year only one wins the title. Just because Charles Barkley, Pat Ewing, and Karl Malone never won a championship... It doesn't mean that they suck or that Westphaul, Riley, Nellie, or Jerry Sloan sucks...

It just means that it wasn't their time.

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Good points all. Durability was an issue with arguably their best player Brad Daugherty(sp?). Brad Daugherty(sp?) was a very skilled center but his chronic back injuries kept him from reaching his full potential. And I can't fault any team for losing to the Bulls in the playoffs during the late 80's through the 90's, I mean, THEY WERE THE BULLS! Now the whole Nique thing kinda got under my skin at first when I thought Lenny was at fault but I later learned that it was a "management" decision. That trade has to go down as one of the worst ever. I'm not sure how much Lenny may have influenced that decision though. If he didn't agree with management to trade Nique, I doubt he did much to stop it. The bottom line is, regardless of what any on this board might think of him personally, Lenny was at the helm during some of the Hawks' most successful seasons.

[BeeSwatter]

Good points and I am not trying to be overly critical of Lenny, ( I don't like him never did and really didn't like his comments on the Hawks last night either ) but you have to remember that those weren't the championship Bulls then. They were the lower seed against the Cavs. The Cavs weren't mentally tough enough to stop Jordan which is basically what the Bulls were then. These were the Pistons championship years. I mean Lenny has won more games than anyone else and he has lost the most. I guess you can say something for longevity. One championship in all of those wins?? Am I right??

[Diesel]

The evidence is overwhelming against Babcock... Look at his M.O.

Traded Nique for Manning.

Traded Smitty for JR.

Traded Mookie for JT.

Traded Mutombo for Theo/Toni/Nazr.

Babcock made it no secret that his philosophy was to trade your stars before they get old. He said that many times. And he followed through.

So you must believe that Lenny wanted to trade Smitty & Mookie too???

What about Lenny and Nique?

Lenny's team was the best in the East and on their way to the NBA finals. NO coach would trade something that was working without problem. The truth was that Nique wanted a new contract and Babcock didn't want to give Nique a long contract.

Here's one article from 1994....

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Loss of Manning makes earlier

trade hype hollow

Atlanta Journal-Constitution -- August 4, 1994

By Steve Hummer

You trade the figurehead of a franchise and a first-round draft choice for a slap in the face. Such a deal generally is not considered wily. It is not the recommended way to build for greatness.

The Hawks, after all, have obtained numerous shots to the head and body and paid nothing for them.

To lose Danny Manning is difficult enough. The Hawks say they were prepared for this abandonment. "In-house, we asked ourself the question, 'Would we do this if we knew Danny would not be back?' " said general manager Pete Babcock, describing a pre-trade scenario. "It was unanimous on our staff that it was worth making the deal.

"Lenny [Wilkens] and I are disappointed Danny is not coming back. But we were prepared for it.

We made the trade with the understanding he wouldn't be back."

Somehow, it was never made clear last season that the Hawks were just renting Manning. Hope they got their deposit back.

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One thing about Babcock is that he likes to cloudy the waters to avoid him getting the total blame. However, he did the same thing over and over... trade off stars for picks or young players and try to make it seem like it was the coaches preference... He did the same thing with JR Rider... or have we forgotten...

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Attempting to retool without falling into the abyss of the lottery (the Chicago Bulls being the disastrous example), Babcock trades veteran Mookie Blaylock to the Golden State Warriors for the No. 10 pick in the 1999 draft, which becomes Blaylock's replacement at point guard, Jason Terry. Next, Babcock trades No. 1 offensive option Steve Smith to the Portland Trail Blazers.

The goals: to get maximum value for Smith by dealing him while he is still in his prime and to rid the franchise of his huge contract.

In exchange, Babcock gets Jim Jackson and the notorious Isaiah Rider.

The deal brings in two shooters, which the Hawks desperately need, and it brings in two short-term contracts: Jackson has two years left, Rider one. Despite Babcock knowing the ugly truth of Rider's erratic behavior--he had been brother Rob's headache with the Minnesota Timberwolves--the GM believes the Hawks can withstand it for a single season.

Babcock is wrong. The ball-hogging, emotionally needy Rider is not fit for team sports. Lazy on the court and divisive in the locker room, Rider festers, and a team with six new players never jells. So the Hawks, whose obstacle heretofore had been getting beyond the second round of the NBA playoffs, find themselves among the league's bottom-feeders. Typical of the franchise's recent luck, the ping-pong balls don't bounce Atlanta's way, and the Hawks are relegated to a 2000 draft pick even worse than what their dismal record has earned them

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