jerrywest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Quote: This topic is moot anyway. To get Iverson, we'd have to trade JJ . . because we don't have enough big money players to make the deal work anyway. And the deal may instantly put us in luxury tax land, a place we don't want to be anyway. And even if we could do the deal with that included Speedy, ZaZa, Marvin, and Lorenzen ( contracts equal about 18 million ) that would severly depleat our bench, especially on the frontline. But it would give us this lineup. You were motoring along so well until here. The Hawks don't have to send out the full $18M of Iverson's salary, only $11M or so because they are under the cap. Speedy/Wright/Smith/1st should work under the cap, and it would mean the Hawks are right up against the cap, nowhere near the luxury tax. Which means Sixers will save $7mill/year on that deal. Hey Bk, are you listening, take that 1st rounder off the table and replace it with Selim and a 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 vdunk . . . if AI was on the Hawks, he wouldn't average 30 ppg. His average would probably drop to around 24 - 25 ppg, with JJ maybe pumping in around 21 - 25 ppg. Historically, guys who are usually labeled as "gunners", usually don't have high quality offensive players around him. At worst, an AI - JJ backcourt would resemble what is in Washington right now, with Arenas ( who takes a ton of bad shots ), and Jamison ( who is a much more efficient scorer than Arenas ). At best, an AI - JJ backcourt would resemble the Run TMC days of Golden St, where Chris Mullin was the sharpshooter ( a player that USA Today compared JJ to in one of their NBA player spotlights back on Monday or Tuesday ) . . . and Tim Hardaway was the do it all scoring PG that could score at will, and still average a very high number of assists. http://databasebasketball.com/teams/teamye...SW&lg=n&yr=1990 With an AI - JJ backcourt, who do you double? And if you try to double both guys, a guy like Josh Childress would be the beneficiary of those double teams, and kill people by knocking down wide open 15 - 18 foot jumpers. Personally, I want to see what this group of Hawks can do. But would I be mad if we pulled the trigger on an AI deal? LOL . . heck no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted December 8, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Which means Sixers will save $7mill/year on that deal. Hey Bk, are you listening, take that 1st rounder off the table and replace it with Selim and a 2nd rounder. Try $14M. They're in luxury tax hell, and each do$$ar they dump on Atlanta saves them $2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Quote: Which means Sixers will save $7mill/year on that deal. Hey Bk, are you listening, take that 1st rounder off the table and replace it with Selim and a 2nd rounder. Try $14M. They're in luxury tax hell, and each do$$ar they dump on Atlanta saves them $2. Wow. Forget about the first round pick. I don't think any other team can give them what we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdunkndunk Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Your entire post discusses offense while ignoring defense. Our defense probably isn't championship quality with or without AI. But with AI, we don't really lose anything on defense and we gain so much on offense as compared to an oft-injured and/or offensively-limited group of "starting PG's" like Speedy, Bozeman, and Ivey. And we gain so many fringe benefits in terms of increased attendance, interest, and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 In the weak east, with AI, there is nobody who can stop us this year, may be longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdunkndunk Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Personally, I want to see what this group of Hawks can do. But would I be mad if we pulled the trigger on an AI deal? LOL . . heck no. That's EXACTLY how I feel about AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted December 8, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: I don't think any other team can give them what we can. Charlotte could... ...but they've already got the Mini-Me backcourt thing down pat. (OT: Whose idea was Felton + Knight? Or is it Knight + Felton? Or does it matter? I really want to like the Bobcats, but they're management have really screwed the pooch IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: ...Which means Sixers will save $7mill/year on that deal. Hey Bk, are you listening, take that 1st rounder off the table and replace it with Selim and a 2nd rounder. I'm not advocating one way or another - but if I were the Philly GM and was going to do a deal with atlanta - I would be interested in getting Josh Smith and Salim in the deal. That would bring some excitement in return (for losing the answer). JSmoove and the Sniper could lessen the blow for Sixers fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: With AI, Philips Arena would be rockin' every night. Not only does the ownership get benefits in terms of ticket sales, but maybe more importantly, AI can help rebuild and reengerize an apathetic and downright hostile fan base here in Atlanta, so that we can continue to sell tickets after he's gone. You do realize that we average larger crowds than Philly right? People get tired of watching a selfish ballhog who doesn't help you win at this point. Our attendance is turning around because we have an unselfish team giving it their all and learning how to win some games. We're averaging over 17,000 people. Only 10 teams in the league are averaging 18,000 or more. Quote: AI is exactly like what we thought we had in Speedy...a small, quick, shoot-first PG who gets a lot of steals...except AI is basically better in every conceivable way, including his ability to stay healthy. Ummm, no. First of all, Speedy is a PG and AI is a SG. Period. Speedy is not shoot first. Hell he can't shoot. Speedy penetrates and dishes the ball. AI penetrates and puts up a forced shot (granted it goes in a lot). Also, we got Speedy because he plays great D. AI doesn't play good D, he just gets a lot of steals when he gambles a lot. He's like Smoove was last year with blocks, getting impressive blocks but more often than not his man can get around him and score. Lastly, Speedy realizes that he is not a distributor, and has no problem with bringing it up, handing it off, and letting others take over if it makes sense. AI is a ballhog who has no clue how to play unless it's him pulling 1-on-1 moves trying to score. Didn't we go over this ad nauseum before? This feels like groundhog day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Quote: I don't think any other team can give them what we can. Charlotte could... That worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 You still aren't getting it. Who do the Hawks have to go through to eventually win a title? Wade, Lebron, and Howard. All these guys do their scoring at the basket. Getting rid of Al and replacing him with Shelden made a big difference but only solved half the problem. If we deal for AI the other half of the problem will never get solved. We need a center who can actually play D. Without that the Hawks will never be title contenders regardless of any other moves they make. And this love affair with AI's offense is a joke. Right now he is shooting 41.3% while his team as a whole is shooting 44.5%. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Quote: This topic is moot anyway. To get Iverson, we'd have to trade JJ . . because we don't have enough big money players to make the deal work anyway. And the deal may instantly put us in luxury tax land, a place we don't want to be anyway. And even if we could do the deal with that included Speedy, ZaZa, Marvin, and Lorenzen ( contracts equal about 18 million ) that would severly depleat our bench, especially on the frontline. But it would give us this lineup. You were motoring along so well until here. The Hawks don't have to send out the full $18M of Iverson's salary, only $11M or so because they are under the cap. Speedy/Wright/Smith/1st should work under the cap, and it would mean the Hawks are right up against the cap, nowhere near the luxury tax. Whoa. Really? Thanks for correcting me. I know a lot about the league, but I'm far from a "capologist". OK . . so with the players you named, this is our squad. G - AI G - JJ F - Childress F - Marvin F - Shelden G - Lue G - Salim G - Bozeman/Ivey F - Solomon C - Batista So basically, we'd need to find a nice shot blocker to make up for Smoove's defense on the interior. Or maybe add another big body to the frontline, just to spell some people. LOL . . . people talk about Iverson, like he's Andre Miller or something. This is a future hall of famer that we're talking about here, no matter how much you dislike his game. One thing about it . . . if we don't make the move, someone else definitely will. The only question from the Sixers would be this. Would they be willing to take a bunch of role players for AI, or would they want a superstar in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packfill Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 He doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: You still aren't getting it. Who do the Hawks have to go through to eventually win a title? Wade, Lebron, and Howard. All these guys do their scoring at the basket. Getting rid of Al and replacing him with Shelden made a big difference but only solved half the problem. If we deal for AI the other half of the problem will never get solved. We need a center who can actually play D. Without that the Hawks will never be title contenders regardless of any other moves they make. And this love affair with AI's offense is a joke. Right now he is shooting 41.3% while his team as a whole is shooting 44.5%. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? Solomon and Shelden will be forced to play more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdunkndunk Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: You do realize that we average larger crowds than Philly right? People get tired of watching a selfish ballhog who doesn't help you win at this point. Our attendance is turning around because we have an unselfish team giving it their all and learning how to win some games. We're averaging over 17,000 people. Only 10 teams in the league are averaging 18,000 or more. You do realize that a lot of the people that show up in Philips arena actually are there to cheer for the other team, right? And that the Sixers sell out everywhere they go around the league because people want to see AI? And that the situation in Philly after more than a decade with AI is far different than the situation in Atlanta, where Philips Arena is almost synonymous with "empty" in the consciousness of most basketball fans. Only 10 teams are averaging 18,000 or more, and if we had AI we would be one of them. Quote: Speedy is a PG and AI is a SG. Period. I disagree. Speedy is considered a PG mostly because he's small and he can't shoot...not what you want from a SG. But even so, he still played a lot of SG with the Hornets last year alongside Chris Paul, because he mostly looks to penetrate. AI is capable of playing either guard spot, just like JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Solomon and Shelden will be forced to play more. And neither are centers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Just curious ex. Since you haven't replied to any of my post, how many games do you think the Hawks could win, if we acquired AI? And give your reasoning behind it. Just curious to where your mind is at on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted December 8, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote: Quote: Solomon and Shelden will be forced to play more. And neither are centers. Exodus, how does trading a non-center for AI reduce the Hawks' chances to find said center? Wouldn't the Hawks have the same problem either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Capology would be part of it - but another part would be real money. I doubt the ASG is interested in paying out that additional $7million or so when they have an up-and-coming team right now and are getting away with spending below the cap. Especially with the legal situation as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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