please share your thoughts on fixing the Hawks

[thesheedera]

1. Tell Marvin that if he doesn't get more than 5 boards in a game, he will not start the next night. I would do everything in my power to get to to focus on attacking the boards. If he can get 3 or 4 offensive boards, he will get 3 or 4 more baskets or trips to the FT line.

2. I also would go after a guy like Jarrett Jack, or make sure I get Ronald Steele (or someone comparable) in the draft. We have to have our young PG, unless we can unload one of our vet PGs. Speedy and Lue is not enough for the future, but we have them and have to live with them. Marcus Williams was the guy I wanted, and we missed him too. We have to get someone in to groom while we wait out the Lue/Speedy era, or we need to get someone in here that can do it NOW.

3. Have a low post rotation of Zaza, Shelden and Solomon. From time to time have two of them on the court, but for the most part go small and only have one of them in there. We will still get beat down low, but our best players need to be on the court together. Marvin and J. Smith have to be able to play some PF for this team to be successful. I think each of them can do it, but they have to work for it.

4. Honestly, I like a lot of what Knight has done, I like the type of players he's gona after, but wouldn't mind seeing him go. I like Woodson and respect his ability to weather the storm, but I wouldn't mind seeing him go too. I don't know who you get to replace them, but a shot in the arm could be a good thing for running this franchise on and off the court.

[Johnnybravo4]

I have a simple one we can do right now. Run an effin play every once in a while. When Shelden posts up, have someone actually pass him the ball. When Smoove posts up against a guard, actually give him the ball and see what he can do with it. How about posting up Marvin? How about having the players move without the ball?

[Packfill]

Here is the fundamental problem:

Over the past twenty or so years the vast majority of NBA champions have had hall of fame caliber big men in the middle (i.e., San Antonio w/ Duncan and Robinson; Miami and LA w/ Shaq; LA w/ Kareem; Boston w/ Chief and McHale; Houston w/ Hakeem). The exceptions are both Detroit teams and the Bulls. Bulls are not good precedent because Jordan is the greatest player of all time and thus his teams cannot be compared to any other. Both Detroit teams featured excellent coaching, veteran leadership, excellent interior defense and clutch all-star point guards.

Now lets look at the current Hawks team in comparison to these past champions: (1) JJ is awesome but he is not Jordan; (2) there is no one on the roster that has the potential to be a hall of fame caliber post player; (3) the Hawks do not have great coaching; (4) the Hawks lack any semblance of interior defense; and (5) the Hawks lack a clutch all-star caliber point guard or even someone with the potential to be such a player.

[thesheedera]

I agree completely. Our offense has been static for much too long. I don't see players working off the ball, and I don't see anyone trying to pound the ball inside. I do see Lue dribbling and waiting for a screen and I do see players standing on the wings with their hands at their sides, hoping for a kick out and an open jumper.

It makes me sick.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Here is the fundamental problem:

Over the past twenty or so years the vast majority of NBA champions have had hall of fame caliber big men in the middle (i.e., San Antonio w/ Duncan and Robinson; Miami and LA w/ Shaq; LA w/ Kareem; Boston w/ Chief and McHale; Houston w/ Hakeem). The exceptions are both Detroit teams and the Bulls. Bulls are not good precedent because Jordan is the greatest player of all time and thus his teams cannot be compared to any other. Both Detroit teams featured excellent coaching, veteran leadership, excellent interior defense and clutch all-star point guards.

Now lets look at the current Hawks team in comparison to these past champions: (1) JJ is awesome but he is not Jordan; (2) there is no one on the roster that has the potential to be a hall of fame caliber post player; (3) the Hawks do not have great coaching; (4) the Hawks lack any semblance of interior defense; and (5) the Hawks lack a clutch all-star caliber point guard or even someone with the potential to be such a player.

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The game isn't played that way anymore. Besides Duncan, who is the real low post dominant big man in the West? With today's hand check rules, and bogus charging calls, the game is more guard oriented. The Heat won the title with a Shaq that is nearing Stiff status. The dominance of the WC so far is indicative of the shift. Teams that fail to adapt will be left behind. Ask the rockets, They have one of the most "traditional" teams you can get with a dominant skill player in TMAC, and a dominant big man in Yao, but cant get in the playoffs to save their life.

[AHF]

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I'm not CONVINCED he can, but I'm also not convinced he can't. Avery Johnson had very little experience as an NBA coach when he was hired by Dallas; he has done quite well largely because he was a student of the game before becoming a coach. I don't believe Mike D'Antoni was long on NBA coaching experience when he was hired by the Suns; he has done quite well. Many coaches who've had coaching experience in other environs (e.g., college) have come into the NBA and done exceptionally well.

You're right, Kareem does have somewhat of a reputation as it relates to communication with the media. But doesn't Bobby Knight (2nd winningest coach in college basketball)? I wouldn't forever relegate the guy to purgatory because of a reputation he had that was founded on Coach Wooden's desire to protect him from the overwhelming media attention he received as the nation's premier college athlete in the late 1960's. Kareem has admitted that the approach formerly used to try and shield him from the media, while well intended, was not the wise approach to use.

Kareem has been tutoring Bynum for less than a year, and the kid's progress can readily be seen on the floor. Says to me the guy knows how to teach. Smoove's in his third year in the NBA and there's precious little on-court demonstration of lessons learned (from Woody or anyone else) over that period. We're likely gonna get a young big man this coming draft or off-season trade. Who better to learn from the the master?

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I think he is ready to be brought on as a full assistant coach prior to being made a head coach. Using Avery Johnson as an example, you could actually bring him in as assistant and groom him for a bit before giving him a chance as a head coach. That might also work well with the timeline our ownership group is going to work under (hopefully resolved in the next year or two but certainly won't be absent a settlement until late 2007 or later).

[exodus]

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With today's hand check rules, and bogus charging calls, the game is more guard oriented.

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exactly, which makes the pg position even more important. Quick pgs who can penetrate, score, and set up their teamates are even more important now than they have ever been.

[TexasPete]

Marc Iavaroni, that fixes the Hawks.

[codyatl]

I guess the first thing to do is settle the ownership situation. With that bs court ruling hanging over our heads we cant make good basketball moves to help the team.

2nd. I would fire woody immediately. This isnt because of the recent losing streak. We are losing because we dont have JJ. BUT, I dont think woody is a good head coach. I dont understand his sub patterns or his offensive sets, if he has any. How many of you would have loved to see the Hawks clear out last night and let Marvin take his man 1-1? Would it have worked? Maybe, maybe not but we wilol never know because e dont try. How about pressing like the Knicks did? We never try. What about pushing the ball up the court to take advantage of the 1 thing that we have over almost every team, youth and athleticism? We dont try. That is on the head man and noone else.

3rd. Get a real center in there now. Zaza has been a huge dissapiontment this year. No defense and his offense is so ugly. Too much flopping and not enough banging. Is this totally his fault? NO, refer to above. Lo? He has been aweful so lets keep playing him over Solo.

To sum up, fire Woody.

[Johnnybravo4]

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With today's hand check rules, and bogus charging calls, the game is more guard oriented.

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exactly, which makes the pg position even more important. Quick pgs who can penetrate, score, and set up their teamates are even more important now than they have ever been.

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Oh you mean like A.I.?

[exodus]

You must have missed the "pg" part.

[Johnnybravo4]

I think running the offense and avg 7-8 apg qualifies as a pg.

[exodus]

When your assist/to ratio is always below 2 and you lead the league in attempts you are a shooting guard.

[Johnnybravo4]

Did you read that in some NBA rulebook?

[gsuteke]

bringing in Allen Iverson wouldn't do any more in terms of developing your core players than TLue is doing right now. Iverson has always been a shoot first player.

i think the majority of the posters in this thread have said loud and clear that a wait and see approach coupled with a legit C and PG acquisition in the offseason is the way to go.

[exodus]

The 2 position is called a SHOOTING GUARD. Since Iverson shoots more than anyone he is definitely a shooting guard.

[Johnnybravo4]

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bringing in Allen Iverson wouldn't do any more in terms of developing your core players than TLue is doing right now. Iverson has always been a shoot first player.

i think the majority of the posters in this thread have said loud and clear that a wait and see approach coupled with a legit C and PG acquisition in the offseason is the way to go.

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Do you think I care what the majority of Hawksquawk posters think? I am trying to reach the owners. You all don't affect jack.

[exodus]

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I am trying to reach the owners.

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Maybe you should bring back TheArtist. Levenson sent me a pm last year and said he thought very highly of TheArtist's basketball knowlege.

[VarsitySlacker]

First off, let me say that I have not read any preceding post in this thread, aside from the teke's starter. That keeps me from taking offense to other ideas as well as leeching other people.

First, let me establish a hierarchy of our players in my mind in terms of value (Not CURRENT value, mind you, but total value to the team. IE: The players at the top should not be gotten rid of in choice of them or the player below them)

Joe

Smoove

Marvin

Childress

Solomon

Shelden

Salim

Zaza

Speedy

Lue

Batista

Lorenzon

Ivey

Bozeman

Frieje

Yes, some of them currently do a lot for the team (Lue, Zaza) but really don't work into long-term plans at their current roles. The reason Marvin is below Smoove is that, BECAUSE Marvin will probably become a better player, he will fetch more in a trade. Ultimately, one of him or Smoove will have to be moved, and Smith is more prone to put asses in seats. (Is this the right basketball mentality? No, but it makes sense)

Now, to address the problems:

If you'll notice, Esteban is higher that a few people on the value list. He needs to be activated. Our problem is the post, and we have a banger inactive. A out-of-control banger, but someone who would have knocked Brad Miller on his ass the first time he tried to do fancy tricks.

Post defense: Actually, BK has had a decent idea recently, it just hasn't worked. Find teams with backup bigs who don't get much time, and give them time. Sometimes it will give you Joel Pryz, sometimes it will give you John Edwards. In the worst case scenario that it IS John Edwards, then he takes a roster spot instead of Frieje. This is why I am SHOCKED that he cut Glyn instead of Frieje. Apparantly he expected more from Lo. We don't seem to have a problem finding little men, but the Hawks haven't had enough big men for as long as I can remember

In the highly probably event that we don't get a good center from castoffs, I think the Hawks should focus on three things this offseason: First off, if there would be ANY way to move into the top four this year. No, not for Greg Oden. Far and away, Oden is the star of this draft, but this is the solidest draft for big men in a long time. I have my eye on Hasheem Thabeet, the freshman center for UConn. He's projectible to Mutombo, which is EXACTLY what this team needs. In a draft full of names like Oden and Noah, Thabeet is currently projected to go fifth. I wonder if a combination of Zaza and our Indiana pick would suffice? It depends on how good Indiana actually ends up this year.

If we can't move up, I would make a strong case for Jamaal Magloire. I'm pretty sure he's a free agent this year, and while he's not a star and he's a bit of a headcase, he would fill the post role that we needed. If we decided not to overpay for him, I would turn to Seattle and fill two needs.

Tyronne Lue and Solomon Jones for Johan Petro and Earl Weaver. I'm not sure if Seattle does this trade or not, but it looks pretty even. Compounding the fact that A) We take more salary for a Seattle team that's looking for help, and B) Weaver is in the doghouse, I think they will. We might have to throw in a second round pick as well, I'm willing to do that. For all the talk abotu Jones being a steal and a potential future center, Petro is one just as much. The man absolutely destroyed Zaza in that last game we played against them. Furthermore, Weaver can A) play defense, and B) defer to someone else instead of dribbling at the top of the key and driving at the eight second mark. If we are able to get a different center, than just make the trade Lue for Weaver. Or Lue and a second for Weaver. If he's truly in the doghouse like JohnnyBravo says, then Seattle does it.

I know a lot of you want to get rid of Speedy, but I'm not an advocate of the sell low idea. He has been AWFUL recently. While he may not be great, he may turn out to be average over the course of the season, in which case we can get a decent turnout from him. Worst case scenario, Weaver takes his starting spot.

And god...If there is any way we can get Sergio Rodriguez, I would be all for it. He'd be a better floor general than anyone we have had since Mookie.

Dream Scenario:

Speedy/Weaver/Rodriguez

JJ/Chill/Salim

Smoove/Marvin

Shelden/Batista/Big Man Project

Thabeet/Petro/Big Scrub/Big Man Project

Ultimately, someone of Marvin/Chill/PG is going to get restless and have to go - At that point we can upgrade. It's better to have too many good players than not enough.

[gsuteke]

Please, let's use this thread as an opportunity to exchange ideas as opposed to a chance to flame one another. if you do not agree with someone else's idea please convey that through posting an alternate scenario.