Something wrong with Woodson quote in AJC

[Hoosier]

Mike was quoted as saying that Marvin is young and should not have taken that last shot in regulation, with only 5 or 6 seconds elapsing, since the Bulls were in the penalty.

Let me get this straight now, they had just come from a timeout, and the coach did not go over this very situation with his young team! That is coaching 101, and then he is naive enough to make his quote in the AJC, that is just laughable.

I am an IU alumnus and saw Woody play there. But I will tell you this, if he were coaching somewhere in Indiana at the High School level and had pulled some of the things he has pulled here, there would be people gathering in local diners and townhall meetings talking about how to ride him out of town. Atlanta fans have been forgiving because basketball is a side sport for them and they just do not care that much.

[frosgrim]

I agree it was a strange statement. I think he wanted Marv to either pass it to JJ or drive to the hole to get a foul. But, you are right that should have been discussed in the TO. I guess Woody believes that all the young guys already know what to do in those sorts of situations.

[DrReality]

I don't think that should be said in the press. That is a heavy statement to lay on Marvin. Think you might be right Hoosier.

[frosgrim]

Atlanta has only two legitimate head coaches: Bobby Cox and Bob Hartly with the Thrashers. Woody and Mora are from the same cloth, good assistants but poor head coaches. The public statements from Woody and Mora and their teams' performances show that neither should be head coaches.

[Hoosier]

Believe me, being an IU alumnus, it took a long time to finally admit that to myself.

[Guest Walter]

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That is coaching 101, and then he is naive enough to make his quote in the AJC, that is just laughable.

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I don't know what our choices are given the ownership situation, but I'd rather put our future in different hands if they will at least half try and get a real NBA coach. It's hard for me to imagine a less competent NBA head coach after 2 years head coaching experience. Not impossible but difficult.

It would have been an interesting take had he owned up to not addressing the scenario clearly enough to his players during the timeout, but this is an obvious in house issue. At least don't go public with "Marvin screwed up".

W

[Lascar78]

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Let me get this straight now, they had just come from a timeout, and the coach did not go over this very situation with his young team!

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Have you ever coached? You can tell people what to do 1000 times, but when the play unfolds, instincts take over and they're not going to do what their coaches want every time. If they did, coaches would stay in their seats all games, relaxing, instead of sweating bullets and yelling at everyone.

[TheDude]

i just want consistency in the head coach position. i'm tired of us firing/hiring a coach every couple years..it's ridiculous..i'm not saying woody is doing a great job, i'm saying give the guy a little time with a decent lineup(which we are developing).

and he shouldnt have said that in the paper..

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Mike was quoted as saying that Marvin is young and should not have taken that last shot in regulation, with only 5 or 6 seconds elapsing, since the Bulls were in the penalty.

Let me get this straight now, they had just come from a timeout, and the coach did not go over this very situation with his young team! That is coaching 101, and then he is naive enough to make his quote in the AJC, that is just laughable.

I am an IU alumnus and saw Woody play there. But I will tell you this, if he were coaching somewhere in Indiana at the High School level and had pulled some of the things he has pulled here, there would be people gathering in local diners and townhall meetings talking about how to ride him out of town. Atlanta fans have been forgiving because basketball is a side sport for them and they just do not care that much.

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LOL. This is a perfect illustration of FANS thiking that they know what should've went on, instead of actually ASSESSING the situation. Like players don't have complete mental breakdowns after a coach tells them something.

The reason why Woody said that about Marvin, is that if Marvin DRIVES to the hole, he might get FOULED, go to the line, and score the winning points there. But in the heat of battle, you sometimes forget the game situation or what the coach directs you to do. You see it all the time in sports.

( example: You don't think that Steve Fischer failed to tell his team that they didn't have any timeouts in that Michigan v North Carolina championship game in 1992, when Michigan had the ball on the final possession? But even in that game, a player just had a mental meltdown. The first meltdown was Jalen Rose failing to create enough separation to get the ball . . seeing that he was the PG for that team.

And because of that, Chris Webber is probably best known for receiving the inbound pass, traveling with the ball ( but it wasn't called ) and dribbling the ball up the court and calling timeout, when Michigan didn't have one . . which drew a technical foul and cost Michigan the championship. )

It was a situation in which the Hawks wanted to take the last shot and not give the Bulls a chance at the end if they didn't secure the rebound. It was also a situation in which the Hawks needed to take the best possible shot available, and not bail out the Bulls with a jumper. If you go to the hole, you might get a call, and win the game from the line.

The theme of the final 3 minutes of the 4th quarter and of OT was this . .

The Hawks settled for jumpers, as they always do, and got burned by it.

The Bulls, when the jumpers weren't falling, got back in the game because they took the ball to the hole and either converted, or drew fouls, and converted from the FT line.

I always wonder how many on this board have actually played some sort of organized basketball on, at the very least, the high school level.

That's not to exonerate Woody from complete blame, because he does have to take some of the blame for how the game ended. But he was dead on about Marvin taking that shot, and forgetting the actual game situation. But I excuse Marvin because he IS so young. It's easy for a player to make a slight mistake like that. Even veteran players make mistakes like that.

If you blame Woody for anything toward the end, blame Woody for a move he made with around 4 minutes left in that game. And I understand why he did it, because the Hawks were struggling on offense.

But he brings ZaZa back in the game, after Lorenzen was really playing great defense in that quarter. Hawks started the quarter hot, then cooled drastically. So I'm sure Woody put ZaZa back in the game, to have another option offensively in the game.

But I think ZaZa may have gotten maybe one look at the basket the rest of the quarter. And because he was in the game, the Bulls were able to get into the lane and get some key offensive rebounds. Z was a complete non-deterrent in the paint.

Personally, I would've kept Ren in the game, and even if the offense wasn't clicking, you'd at least limit the Bulls from scoring easily on the other end. But if you put ZaZa in, get him the ball and see if he can score. The Hawks did neither, and it cost them dearly.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Have you ever coached? You can tell people what to do 1000 times, but when the play unfolds, instincts take over and they're not going to do what their coaches want every time. If they did, coaches would stay in their seats all games, relaxing, instead of sweating bullets and yelling at everyone.

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Excellent post.

[Hoosier]

No I have not coached, but I did play HS basketball, and all of my coaches always went over situational strategy involving time management. We were in HS, but we did not find it particularly difficult to remember when to start to execute the play. Marvin has played college and is now in the NBA, I think if coach would have told him to start making his move with 10 seconds on the clock, then he would have. I sense that you are a little defensive?

Everyone on this Board knows in their gut, that when the game is close with one minute to play, we will almost inevitably lose. That is when the best coaches earn their stripes, and Woody gets out-coached almost every time.

I have no doubt that he knows basketball theory backwards and forwards, but he does not know how to play to the situation, or create on the fly. And the fact that he is overwhelmed allows important details to escape him. The Hawks have enough talent to make the playoffs, but will not do so unless they get the right interim coach in here.

[Lascar78]

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Everyone on this Board knows in their gut, that when the game is close with one minute to play, we will almost inevitably lose.

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You can probably look at the youngest team every single year and see that they lose most of their close games. It takes time to learn how to close games out at the NBA level. The point is we don't know what Woody is preaching the wrong things or if the young guns aren't executing what he's preaching.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's not that I'm defensive, I just get tired of people acting like Woody doesn't know what he's doing.

LOL . . this is a guy who has been involved in NBA basketball ( as a player and as a coach ), longer than most of these posters have been alive. Yet, a lot of you act like the guy has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER on what he's doing.

I'm not saying that Woody is perfect, because he definitely isn't. But some of you continue to nit-pick at every single little thing the guy does.

It's crazy.

You give the player the benefit of the doubt, but not the coach?

How many games have you seen, in which a coach specifically tells his team "DON'T FOUL THE JUMPSHOOTER!!" toward the end of a game . . and a player does just that . . foul the jumpshooter.

LOL . . I guess the coach gets the blame for that.

This team loses close games down the stretch, more because of mental errors on the court, than bad or great coaching.

Last night, JJ got a shot that he always hits over a guy 4 inches smaller than he was . . and he missed. But put that on the coach I guess.

LOL @ this statement by you.

I have no doubt that he knows basketball theory backwards and forwards, but he does not know how to play to the situation, or create on the fly. And the fact that he is overwhelmed allows important details to escape him.

LOL . . who was more likely "overwhelmed" in that situation?

- A 20 year old player in his 2nd year in the NBA, who hasn't even played 7 years TOTAL of high school, college, and NBA ball combined?

- Or a person who has been a 4 year college and NBA player, and a longtime coach in the NBA, whether it be as a head coach or as an assistant coach?

LOL . . there's just no logic in who you think was "overwhelmed".

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You can probably look at the youngest team every single year and see that they lose most of their close games. It takes time to learn how to close games out at the NBA level. The point is we don't know what Woody is preaching the wrong things or if the young guns aren't executing what he's preaching.

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Excellent post #2.

[Hoosier]

Well, I agree with you about young teams not having composure in close end game situations, and that is why I gave Woody the benefit of the doubt for so long. However, he does usually has our most experienced players on the floor at the end of games.

The scouting report on him, I am sure, is quite simple. Last shot will be a one man isolation jump shot around the top of the key. Safe, simple, and low percentage.

If you always have to have a big lead to win, and cannot pull out your share of close games in this League, then you do not belong. I have finally concluded that Woody is not NBA head coaching material, and as painful as it is with all the uncertainty surrounding this team, BK is going to have to go in another direction if he is going to maximize the talent he has assembled.

[Hoosier]

Woody being overwhelmed on the job is well chronicled. Last year with a lead to defend, he forgot to put in his best shot blocker in, and lost the game. He just forgot, he said so in the AJC. Last night everyone but Mike knew that JJ's legs were gone, so he let him take the last shot. He forgets to go over time management before MW takes his infamous shot. Even if you are coaching Stockton & Malone you still go over these things.

These are just a few examples of what I mean by being overwhelmed. He definitely knows basketball, he played under Bobby Knight, coached under Larry Brown, but you cannot be mentored on how to coach in the heat of battle. He would be part of a good coaching staff, but is just over whelmed being the Main Guy.

[bootsybug]

i disagree with woody in the first place. i mean the guy had scored 23 points in the first place, same as joe. gotta give marvin a chance to shine sooner or later, right? why shelter the guy?

i understand if he said he didn't want shelden shooting a 3 or something, but i think we have to either feel ok with the ball in marvin's hands in the last seconds, or we should have never drafted him 2nd.

[KB21]

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Last shot will be a one man isolation jump shot around the top of the key.

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That's the strategy all NBA teams have. Is Mike Brown a bad coach because everyone and their mother knows that LeBron James is going to get the ball at the end of a close game? No. You give the ball to the guy who can get his shot. For Atlanta, that's going to be Joe Johnson 9 times out of 10.

[Hoosier]

Lebron usually takes it to the whole, when it has to count.

He either makes the shot or gets fouled. What's wrong with a drive and dish by Claxton for a wide open jumper?

Great coaches almost always use the element of surprise, unless they have that certain talent where surprise does not matter, as in Lebron's case.

But you are right, Woody is going to do exactly what is expected of him 9 out of 10 times. That is mediocrity, which will not win you games in the NBA.

[Lascar78]

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i disagree with woody in the first place. i mean the guy had scored 23 points in the first place, same as joe. gotta give marvin a chance to shine sooner or later, right? why shelter the guy?

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I agree with this, nothin wrong with marvin getting a chance