The Bottomline According to Wurider

[Wurider05]

In way I agree with you but the people here have been waiting to get behind this team for a while and sooner or later interest in the Hawks will flat out disappear.

[TexasPete]

Totally agree with this but Woodson has to go right now for us to salvage something this season.

[Diesel]

It's one thing to be disappointed with waiting another year. But to give up on the season 30 games in seems like a rash act. And my point is that if you have hated the team since before they played a game, then it is your agenda to ignore every situation and to speak bad about the team at every turn.

No team has been as bad as we have, but Miami has been close. Miami only has 4 more wins than we do. However, do you think Miami fans are calling for their team to tank their season and try to get a good lottery pick?

No. It's not because they are more talented than us. It's because their mentality is way different than ours. 30 games in, they are saying, we can fix this up and be in the playoffs and do something. 30 games in, we're saying... it's over. We have too many fans who have never won or loss nothing. Walter is so hungry for a win, that he would destroy this team to win a lottery pick??

I say let's just have a little patience and see what we look like after 48 games.

[Guest Walter]

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It's one thing to be disappointed with waiting another year. But to give up on the season 30 games in seems like a rash act. And my point is that if you have hated the team since before they played a game.

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Diesel, quit your attack the messanger hate speak. It's juvenile, petty, untrue, desperate, and only further demonstrates YOU DON'T HAVE A PLAN! I have stated this team as designed cannot contend! Exodus has also stated effectively the same thing. This is not "hate speech". This is an opinion based upon fact being proven by fact. It's not a It's even sunny in London, popular opinion, but its one commonly held outside of a biased fan forum. Does the whole world, myself, and Exodus hate this team? Please. It's tiresome the lengths individuals will go to discredit the world if they just don't like what the world has to say.

Anyhow, about a "rash act"

1) This isn't just another year. This is a year when our pick is only top 3 protected and the draft is franchise center-laden.

2) This isn't just another franchise. It's a franchise that cannot hope to improve itself significantly through any other means than the draft given its miserable ownership fiasco likely to extend through another decision and appeals process.

3) This isn't just another bottom 4 team, I will grant you. It's better than that. But it's not remotely a contender. I accept our ONLY option to contend within the next 3 years is with a top 3 pick. In short, I accept short-term over long-term resignation. THAT is the furtherest thing from hate. That is loving my team enough to want it to win it all!

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[Diesel]

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I have stated this team as designed cannot contend!

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You have not seen this team play yet. So your statement is another one of your pessimestic statements that you make every year. You know like your whole Chillz is a bust campaign that you had a couple of years ago.

Every year, you look to be negative about this team. Can you at least wait until we can dress every player and see how they play then?

You're pulling the plug while they are on the operating table.

[Guest Walter]

...you somehow, miracle upon miracle, knew that drafting MW over a franchise Pg was a mistake. How did you know this without seeing MW as a pro? How could you make such a leap?

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I have stated this team as designed cannot contend!

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You have not seen this team play yet.

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Diesel, I know it can't contend as designed just like you knew MW wasn't as good a pick as Deron or as great a prospect as popular wisdom indicated without seeing him as a pro. This team is simply flawed. Significantly inadequate Pg and C play, redundant positional players and similar skill-sets, a first option who doesn't get to the line much with a bunch of reluctant, currently at best 3rd options, great character guys but a leadership void, and simply not enough talent to contend with.

It's not all bad. There are very salvagable, important parts to a contender on this team. With the single most difficult to acquire and important piece, a franchise center, I'd be willing to let ride and do exactly what you are saying, let it play out. Without that and without the ability to acquire that, I'm not going to advocate "patience" when our top 3 pick and the future of this franchise is at stake, because this team hasn't gotten an 18 game (most without JS) "fair shake" (something many of us, correctly it seems, whether rightly or wrongly, didn't give MW) according to you.

Interestingly enough, You don't argue that this team not flawed! You simply argue that ONE CANNOT KNOW whether it's flawed at this time and that after a mere 18 games, likely 12+ of which will be without JS, YOU will suddenly have the knowledge you lack today. BULL-[censored]!

Insignificant 6th worst place over 3rd worst place moral victories do NOT help this franchise and given the ownership situation indicating they are not going to solve this team's problems, BK's past draft mistakes limiting our tradable capitol of worth, etc. this team does not have a "plan B" that would result in significant change!

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Can you at least wait until we can dress every player and see how they play then?

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Diesel, whether you like the realism or not. We have not been and are not a good team. Whether you like the realism or not. BK has made 3 consecutive major draft mistakes (although, I do like watching Chill, think him a very close player to Iggy and Deng, etc. he wasn't the BPA, the best prospect available, or the most valuable trade commodity, which ever way you look at it). The whole world sees this. Save inside this insular fan forum the whole world can manage to put fan bias aside and not to over-analyze these simple facts. You may not recall it, but I use to really like BK! I loved his approach at dissmantling the team. Since then, mostly major rebuilding errors. I HAVE to call'em as I see 'em and not sugar coat this. As long as we lie to ourselves about this team's real prospects as designed much less about the importance of 18 games, we'll be needing to lie to ourseles for many years.

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You're pulling the plug while they are on the operating table.

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No, I'm putting it under SO it can hopefully get a new heart.

W

[Diesel]

Actually, I had watched a season full of Marvin, Paul, and Deron.

My contention was that it was stupid for us to pick Marvin knowing that we had 5 Sfs on the team already and we needed a PG badly.

However, the difference with you is that you fail to realize that we do have good pieces. You fail to realize that we have been competitive even when all the pieces were not here.

What I am saying is that before you cast this team away as a bust, get all the players back and let's see how they play. Do you not realize how big not having Smoove and Lue is to this team?

[Guest Walter]

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Actually, I had watched a season full of Marvin, Paul, and Deron.

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And I'd watched plenty of the Hawks with its main players returning. The Hawks had infinitely further to go than SW, Lo, and Speedy WITHOUT AL HARRINGTON could take them. I would certainly say that the Hawks as a team are as far from contention as you think MW is from justifying his pick for us.

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My contention was that it was stupid for us to pick Marvin knowing that we had 5 Sfs on the team already and we needed a PG badly.

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Your contention was he wasn't as good as Deron also. Btu regardless, my contention is that it's stupid to chase after meaningless (at this point) moral victories that make your team the 6th worst rather than the 3rd worst when our pick isn't top 3 protected and we have no other means of improvement. I'm sure you can rationalize your decision to go against the MW draft decision. I AGREE WITH YOU! I'm saying that you did so without even seeing them as a pro, the same level of certainty I have for this team. I've seen enough of it and it's parts to KNOW it cannot contend just like you KNEW MW wasn't the pick for us before he was ever a pro. Why not just give him 18 lousy games Diesel? Because the pick would have been made just like in the next 18 games a top 3 pick may be lost!

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