After all the attacks recently...

[thesheedera]

...about Marvin being a terrible player with a bad attitude, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I only found 1 positive post about his play last night. He was the most assertive and vocal Hawk, and he had a pretty solid game. He had an excellent offensive game, and an average to above average defensive game. Everyone's been asking for him to step up, make a difference, try hard. Well he did last night, and only one poster has a comment?

Typical.

[Diesel]

It's hard to applause somebody for doing what they should have been doing.

Let him build a streak and then give him applause.

For as bad as our defense was last night:

1. Nobody deserves applause.

2. Toronto wasn't playing defense either. Late in the 4th we were shooting 50%.

However, let Marvin step up consistently and do what he did last night and he might get applause...

But then again, he's the Highest pick in the History of the franchise... Shouldn't he be playing as good as last night if not better??

Do people applaud you for going to work and doing what you're supposed to do?

[Plastic Man]

glad you pointed this out sheed. i missed most of the game last night (but i'm about to watch it on nba lp broadband). from the little i saw, marv was aggressive, playing with energy and getting to the ft line.

[thesheedera]

I'm not looking for anyone to kiss his ass. Even if I saw posts like "its good to see Marvin doing what he's supposed to be doing", then I would begin to believe that posters on this board are fans, and not just critics.

I'm not saying give him an award, I just think its hilarious that he plays a game the way everyone has been wanting him to play it, and there's only one mention of it.

I think this board likes to pin the blame on specific players (you've posted about this constantly), when the problem is bigger than one or two guys. Marv's been getting the most blame lately, while Joe and Zaza have been playing badly as well. Posters trash his effort and heart, well last night he played with both. To me its worth mentioning. For some reason its easier for the haters to push it under the rug as an anomoly and wait for another bad game to start bringing his name up again.

The problem with this team is much bigger than specific players, and something's gotta change.

[Wurider05]

You are right. I always give him praise but Diesel and that pack always come in with negativity and come up with a thousand reasons to downplay his stats jut like he did today.

[hawkman]

In all honesty though, anybody can have one good game. Willie Burton scored 50 in a game one time. I don't know if anyone here even started criticizing Marv until he had a FEW really bad games. Most of the people on this board seem to give him a free pass if anything. Maybe everyone, including me, need to see this kind of production from him on a more consistent basis before they get back on the Marvin bandwagon. I'd still like to see a better all around game from him though. He looks pretty one dimensional right now.

[thesheedera]

He was settling for jump shots early, the whole team was, and we got down. I personally think we lost the game by the way we settled early on, while Toronto was scoring every which way.

After he got some confidence making jump shots, he started putting the ball on the floor effectively. 1 of his 2 turnovers was a carrying call that I replayed 3 or 4 times. From the camera angle, it looked like a bs call, but I guess its a point of emphasis, and they're seeking it out. Maybe the angle was bad. Either way, he was playing under control.

Still not enough effort on the glass on every possession, but he looked like he was trying to get the team fired up all game.

T Lue's presence is defeinitely taking its toll on our attitude on the court.

[Diesel]

The thing is that 1 game does not merit what you're asking. Like I said before, let him string together a few games... Every player can get it up for one game. But think of everything we've done for Marvin.

1. Choose him over Paul and Deron.

2. Traded Diaw and Al so that he would have room to play.

3. Made him a starter over Chillz...

With all that going for him, he has an obligation to be good.

[AtLaS]

I've said this before, but Marvin will have to become a Ray Allen type shooter in order to become a great scorer. He didn't play any different or do anything different last night, he just made his shots.

He still can't create for himself, post up, or even drive past someone for that matter.

[thesheedera]

My perception is that the anti-Marvin bandwagon is larger than the pro-Marvin bandwagon.

And I also believe from consistently reading this board that the Pro-Marvin fans are more likely to critique his shortcomings than the anti-Marvin fans are to mention his strongsuits and successes.

I consider myself a huge Marvin Williams fan, but I've always been honest about his play. I know he's lacking a lot and I'm not afraid to mention it when its evident.

It just seems to be a clear signal that when he plays bad, he's mentioned in every other post. When he plays well, there's only ONE post about him until the afternoon following the game.

That to me speaks volumes. The majority of the posters here are ready to close the book on Marvin, and they'd rather see him fail and get traded than slowly progress and grow as a player.

[thesheedera]

One game doesn't merit a couple posts discussing his play? I'm not asking you to say he's a great player. All I'm saying is there was NO mention of him at all, except for a single post by DocHawk. He's not a subject of discussion here unless you're shitting on him.

I didn't even see someone say "Marvin played OK, but not great". Or "it looks like Marvin is settling for jumpshots early". Or "Marvin's getting to the line". Or "Marvin's being more vocal".

Things that were obvious and really stood out during the game, but were ignored completely on the tea's message board.

With Marvin it seems that if there's nothing bad to say, don't say anything at all.

He's had two terrible games out of his last 5. One really good one, one good one, and one average one. Its not like he's been like Jonathan Bender, Diesel

[thesheedera]

Quote:

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He still can't create for himself, post up, or even drive past someone for that matter.

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You were one for three on this. He can and does create for himself, and he can and does drive past people. He's not great at finishing every drive, but he does draw fouls and convert at the line.

He so far can not post people up, or at least he's making no effort to do so.

[Popeye]

I think the reason that nobody is recognizing his good game is because that we lost.

[Diesel]

Now, just one second there Sheedera..

Marvin has been bad since he's come back. I haven't posted every day reminded you how bad he was or how we f----- up. Did I? I let Marvin's bad play slide without a post. I could have went into an in depth analysis of how his offense was tragic and how his defense was weak... but I didn't do that every game. I did it once or twice last week because I just got tired of hearing excuse after excuse about his hurt hand. My statement is that if he can't go, he should be on the bench.

So seeing that I didn't take every opportunity to examine him then, why should I now? Because you're a really big fan of Marvin and you hope that he can live up to #2? Well, that remains to be seen. However, when he plays better for a sustained amount of time, he will be worthy of some talk. However, as far as last night goes, there's not a lot to be positive about... Even Marvin.

[vdunkndunk]

Marvin definitely deserves praise, because he looked pretty good last night. The thing is, that kind of game isn't unusual for him lately...it's jut that it's not unusual for him to score 5 or 6 points the next night, either.

Personally, I'd like to see him score between 12-24 every night, consistently, to where he's averaging around 16 ppg for the rest of the season. To me, that would be a sign that Marvin's really coming around, if he can bring something every night.

He doesn't need to score 20+ every night like he did last night, but I'd also like to see him eliminate those 5 point stinkers.

[thesheedera]

Quote:

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Do people applaud you for going to work and doing what you're supposed to do?

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And I can't ignore this. What a silly question. I'm not a professional athlete. There aren't message boards dedicated to my office. No one buys tickets to watch us work.

If they did buy tickets, watch me on tv, and post about me on message boards, I think people would make posts saying:

"Sheedera came to work today and did what he was supposed to do. That was nice to see after the last few days when he's been really inconsistent, moody, and seems to be slacking off. I hope he keeps it up. Maybe he's just been frustrated or not completely healthy, but he's got to be more consistent."

[hawkman]

Quote:

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My perception is that the anti-Marvin bandwagon is larger than the pro-Marvin bandwagon.

And I also believe from consistently reading this board that the Pro-Marvin fans are more likely to critique his shortcomings than the anti-Marvin fans are to mention his strongsuits and successes.

I consider myself a huge Marvin Williams fan, but I've always been honest about his play. I know he's lacking a lot and I'm not afraid to mention it when its evident.

It just seems to be a clear signal that when he plays bad, he's mentioned in every other post. When he plays well, there's only ONE post about him until the afternoon following the game.

That to me speaks volumes. The majority of the posters here are ready to close the book on Marvin, and they'd rather see him fail and get traded than slowly progress and grow as a player.

---

That may be due to the fact that Marvin's strongest supporters are always trying to shove his "potential" down everyone's throat who don't agree with him being picked over other players(no names please) in last season's draft. I expected this "superstar" that everyone was talking about and ended up dissapointed. Marvin has the potential to be a good player in this league, but I don't see what all the fuss was about and I'm tired of being told that I'm anti- Marvin or anti-Hawk because I call it like i see it. If he plays well consistently then that's great. But I'm not going to fawn all over him if he scores 26 in garbage time or 23 in a game while everyone else was clearly sleepwalking. Personally, I'm sick of waiting and sick of excuses.

[Diesel]

It's not anti Marvin or pro Marvin it's shouldn't be anyway.

It's pro Hawks.

I'm here to support the Hawks. That even includes Marvin. Hell, i was the only one brave and fool enough to believe we could win our next 4.. and that's with Marvin. However, these little microcosisms that seperate us, shouldn't if we're Hawks fans.

Last night, we lost as a team and there was really nothing redeeming to pull from it.

[AtLaS]

The only resemblence of him creating for himself is when it's a catch and shoot. By this I mean a catch, hold the ball, make a jab step (without dribbling the ball) and just taking the jumpshot. He is pretty good at this, but he needs to get much more complete offensively.

He can't drive past anyone right now, all he can do is dribble between his legs and go one way or the other. I hope he can eventually learn this, but he really can't get by anyone, it's why he uses that catch and shoot play so much.

[Diesel]

"Sheedera came to work today and did what he was supposed to do. That was nice to see after the last few days when he's been really inconsistent, moody, and seems to be slacking off. I hope he keeps it up. Maybe he's just been frustrated or not completely healthy, but he's got to be more consistent."

Exactly... But you want us to do this:

"did you see the way Sheedera organized all those papers and put them into folders. Did you see the way Sheedera answered the phone. He answered the phone yesterday, but it wasn't like today! Sheedera is a stud at answering the phone... I think the company made a good hire when they got him!!! Who needs Bill Gates, we have sheedera!"