After all the attacks recently...

[AtLaS]

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As for the poster who said he had no scoring moves? He hasn't been to a game. Marvin gets to the line better than any Hawk and it isn't close. How does he do that with no moves? He beats his guy off the dribble and gets into the paint and draws contact.

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What moves does he have? He dribbles through his legs, puts his head down and barges into the lane. I don't call that a move. I've never seen him pull a good spin move, or a crossover, or even a nice hesitation move. These are things that players with great offensive potential at least show the capability of doing.

Like I said his only thing that even RESEMBLES a move is when he catches the ball, gives a jab step (without dribbling) and just shoots the jumper, which he is actually pretty good at.

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this guy needs a better post game, but who doesn't on the Hawks?

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With a #2 pick and supposedly a potentially great offensive player at the 3 spot, I would expect him to at least have something in the post.

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We will all see the "wisdom" of you ripping the consensus best choice in that draft.

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He wasn't considered the "by far" bpa in the draft, I agree most people had him bpa but he still wasn't considered head and shoulders above the top 5 picks. Plus about 75% of the mock drafts I read had us taking Paul or Deron.

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The same people here who have all the patience in the world for Smith won't give Marvin the same.

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Marvin was a #2 pick, Smith was #17. Besides Smith always had the potential to help in SO many other ways than just scoring.

[Diesel]

Hey Pete,

Can you make a post about Marvin without sounding like an excuse machine?

Or maybe you have an excuse machine over there.

You don't have to sell us the snake oil... The Hawks have already bought it. Now we're looking to see if it will heal our team's bunyon or did we get taken?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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...about Marvin being a terrible player with a bad attitude, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I only found 1 positive post about his play last night. He was the most assertive and vocal Hawk, and he had a pretty solid game. He had an excellent offensive game, and an average to above average defensive game. Everyone's been asking for him to step up, make a difference, try hard. Well he did last night, and only one poster has a comment?

Typical.

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The reason why they don't do it, is because they don't want to be wrong about a player that they don't like. It's almost like they'd rather see the guy fail and the Hawks win, than to see the guy that they hate be a reason for the Hawks winning.

You saw it with Smoove before he went down. Now everybody realizes just how important he is to the chemistry of this team.

You saw it with Speedy at the beginning of the year, when he obviously wasn't anywhere near 90%. But now, he's playing decent basketball and isn't a complete liability.

You definitely saw it with Shelden. A lot of posters were absolutely convinced that he'd be a bust, even before he played a regular season game.

And you see it with Salim all the time. When he's struggling, he shouldn't play much. But when he's on, he's definitely an asset to this team. Yet, people don't like him even when he's on.

It's one thing to criticize players. But you also have to give them props when they play well. If they don't, then you know their true agenda when it concerns a particular player.

[exodus]

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And you see it with Salim all the time. When he's struggling, he shouldn't play much. But when he's on, he's definitely an asset to this team. Yet, people don't like him even when he's on.

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When has Salim been on? He is shooting 38% on the season. He might have one good game out of 10 but overall he hurts the Hawks.

It was nice to see Marvin starting to hit his J. ( I didn't see the game until this afternoon). I am hoping that his hand has been the reason that his jumper has been off.

REalistically Marvins jumper will be the key to his game. He needs to make a high percentage on his jumpers in order to be effective. His jumper has always looked good but for some reason just doesn't go in often enough.

I don't see Marvin ever being a guy that can get very many and1s. He just can't seem to take contact.

[Yeti]

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The thing is that 1 game does not merit what you're asking. Like I said before, let him string together a few games... Every player can get it up for one game.

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Diesel, just use the same standard for your buddy "NBA ready now" Shelden. I'm still waiting.

Marvin showed last night what we expected to see after the summer league. If players are capable of turning it on and they aren't doing it every night - isn't that a problem with the coaching staff. Sure it's the players but it's also the coaches job to get these kids ready to play.

[SmooveTheFuture]

Not much for Marvin at all 2night. I dont praise guys when they have 1 good game out of 5 like i said. But at least the Hawks finally won a game and thats more important theh anything Marvin does.

[Diesel]

You mean Shelden who leads all Rookies in RPG and is 6th in PPG amoung Rookies??

Yeah, I will hold him to a higher standard than I hold the highest pick in the History of the franchise.

[TheDude]

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You mean Shelden who leads all Rookies in RPG and is 6th in PPG amoung Rookies??

Yeah, I will hold him to a higher standard than I hold the highest pick in the History of the franchise.

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marvin won't be able to compete in rebounds with Shelden due to the position they play. And although Shelden is a rookie, he played 4 years in college perfecting his positioning down low and became an extremely solid player under Chefsky's watch.

Marvin is a potential pick and everybody knows that. And what also everybody knows (but seems to forget before they can finish a thought) is that potential picks are picked for what they will be able to provide DOWN THE LINE.

In Shelden, you pick him for what he can do now. In Marvin, you pick him for what he WILL BE ABLE TO DO LATER and at a much higher ceiling than Shelden.

Marvin is about one month out of his rookie season, give the kid a break.

[Popeye]

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Not much for Marvin at all 2night. I dont praise guys when they have 1 good game out of 5 like i said. But at least the Hawks finally won a game and thats more important theh anything Marvin does.

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HAHAHAHA, Aren't you that guy that started a thread at realgm praising Smoove for a good game, when we lost by double figures? 1 good game out of 5 hmmm... Dosen't Smoove do that in his 3rd year?

GTFO you Foking liar!!

ooooopss

[TexasPete]

The ball rarely came Marvins way and numb-nut Woody kept jerking him out of the game. He came out early in the fitsy quarter and he could never get a rythym until the 4th when Woody finally kept him in. He sat more minutes in the first 3 quarters than he played...why?

Because Woody is a fool. His sub patterns from one game to the next are out of his left butt cheek. There is no rhyme or reason for how this man subs and it gets players out of rhythm.

[Diesel]

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The ball rarely came Marvins way and numb-nut Woody kept jerking him out of the game. He came out early in the fitsy quarter and he could never get a rythym until the 4th when Woody finally kept him in. He sat more minutes in the first 3 quarters than he played...why?

Because Woody is a fool. His sub patterns from one game to the next are out of his left butt cheek. There is no rhyme or reason for how this man subs and it gets players out of rhythm.

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- Chill always subs in for Marvin midway through the 1st quarter. There's really no dropoff when Chill comes in the game.

- Marvin came right back in at the end of the 1st quarter

- He only got jerked in and out of the game in the 2nd quarter. And that was strictly because of the personnel that the Clips had in the game at the time. And also because of TT's 3 pointer. I thnk that kind of ticked Woody off for a minute. But he got Marvin right back in the game.

In all, Marvin played 32 minutes, and the vast majority of the 4th quarter. He preserved him enough to make sure that he could be in the game at the end.

But Woody is the idiot? LOL.

It's like Diesel said. This is not NBA Live, where you can play 5 guys all game if you wanted to. Players get tired or have mental lapses. At those times, it is up to the coach to either give him a breather, or talk to him about his mental lapse.

And once again Woody kept his rotation pretty tight. He's able to do this now, with Chill being back. Why? Because he's able to play the 2 and the 3, and even bring the ball up at times as a Point Forward.

And it's so nice to see Speedy healthy enough to play 35 minutes + a game. While he didn't shoot particularly well, he had a great all-around game.

The true idiots are those of you who understand nothing about how to manage a basketball game.

[TexasPete]

Cyde, you are a legend in your own mind. BTW, he wasn't subbed halfway through the first. He was subbed at around the 8:00 minute mark. Thats 4 lousy minutes and he was just starting to get a sweat going. Getting pulled early sucks for anybody. Woody's sub patterns are bizarre and change from one night to the next.

BTW, that brace MW wears on his left hand is bothering his shot and will continue to do so. The guide hand is critical to the shot and he has trouble getting a feel on the ball. He is playing through a tough situation and we need him at this point. Marvin is averaging close to 14ppg coming off an injury where he still has a brace. Not to bad. By the end of the season Marvin will be over 15ppg and still not 21...I'll take it.

[Dsinner]

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I dont give praise to players who have one good game out of 5 games. Sorry thats showing up when you want to

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Yet you have one of the most inconsistant players (based on potential)we have as your SN. Go figure. And by the way, based on that logic the only person you can really praise is J.J. He's the only player that has strung together any kind of consistant play at a high level.

From now on I expect ALL of your positive posts to be about J.J. based on your own criteria. Enjoy.

[Dsinner]

And for those who discredit players' performances simply because the Hawks get blown out then you must igonre most of J.J.'s performances or anyone else's for that matter because we lose a lot of games. Sorry, that makes little sense to me. It's not a players fault if no one else steps up. You still should give that player their cred for the game or else J.J. simply doesn't deserve an all-star appearance because most of his performances didn't count. Whatever.

[Diesel]

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. He was subbed at around the 8:00 minute mark. Thats 4 lousy minutes and he was just starting to get a sweat going.

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BTW, that brace MW wears on his left hand is bothering his shot and will continue to do so.

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He is playing through a tough situation and we need him at this point.

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Can you believe this? Damn, TP, I needed you and your excuse machine in some of my classes way back when. You're much better than my dog ate my homework!!

[exodus]

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Yet you have one of the most inconsistant players (based on potential)we have as your SN.

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Actually Smith a very strong stretch of games before he got hurt. In 12 december games he averaged

13.4 ppg on 80% shooting

8.4 rebounds

3.8 assists

1.7 steals

2.83 blocks

He also played at a consistently high level the last three months of last season.

[Diesel]

Sinner, you actually have to watch the game.

If the Hawks lose by 2 and it was a tightly contested game and JJ put up 34 points in a shootout with Michael Redd then of course JJ gets some cred...

However, if the Hawks lose by 35... we were never in it. The 2nd team for Milwaukee is on the floor at the beginning of the second hald and Redd plays 16 minutes and sits the rest of the game. If all the Bucks starters are on the bench smiling while Marvin scores 25 on Gadzuric, Skinner, Noel, Bell, and Blake.. then how much cred does Marvin get??

I'm not saying that the Toronto game was a blowout. We kept it within 10 points, but when you watched that game, the competitiveness was not at a high level. Both teams played weak defense. They were shooting 64% and we were shooting 53% at one point in the game.

[exodus]

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13.4 ppg on 80% shooting

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50% shooting obviously

[Dsinner]

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Yet you have one of the most inconsistant players (based on potential)we have as your SN.

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Actually Smith a very strong stretch of games before he got hurt. In 12 december games he averaged

13.4 ppg on 80% shooting

8.4 rebounds

3.8 assists

1.7 steals

2.83 blocks

He also played at a consistently high level the last three months of last season.

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Not too bad. But outside of those 12 games when everyone was talking about how bad he was playing what were his averages? 12 games plus a few earlier does not a consistant season make.

Now Im not bashing Smoove, I like Smoove, I'm simply asking a poster not too put themselves on such a high horse when it comes to judging players on consistancy when Smoove is their favorite player. I think that's a reasonable request.