A Newbie's take - apologies for the length

[TheFormerJJBacker]

Hello All,

I feel as if I know some of you as a result of reading posts for the past year and a half. I've never actually created an account until now mainly because I never had to much to say. I figured I'd post my take on all things Hawks as my first post just to allow everyone an opportunity to know where I'm coming from. As in the subject line - I apologize for the length of this opus...

About Me - I'm a 27 year-old guy from Phoenix, Arizona. I've always loved basketball. I played thru middle school, but my size (I'm 5'8") didn't allow for much of a "career." My Dad and I have have had season tickets for the Suns since 2001-2002. I still have Suns season tickets (but I was the one guy in the arena wearing a Joe Johnson Hawks jersey last year when Atlanta came to Phoenix). I obtained the title of "Hawks Fan" in August of last year when the Hawks acquired Joe from my beloved Suns. I know this makes me pretty much a fan of a player as opposed to a team when it comes to Hawks, but I've always been a fan of the NBA, so I knew the Hawks history (from an outside perspective) pretty well. That pretty much tells the story. I love my Suns, but I root for the Hawks just as much (i.e., TiVoing games, etc.). I've seen every televised Hawks game since last year. Anyhoo... on to my take on the Hawks.

Ownership - This sounds like a mess. My only source of information is obtained from the AJC and this board. From what I can tell, the Spirit continues to maintain that the current situation doesn't affect the team - but it clearly does. It's annoying, and I hope it's fixed soon.

Billy Knight - I don't have a huge problem with him. I had an opportunity to talk to him a bit last year in Phoenix (my Dad and I get to the games fairly early, and BK was tooling around during shoot-arounds). I don't necessarily have a huge beef with what he's tried to set up. He had to tear down and overpaid, underperforming team, and try to build from nothing. His flexibility philosophy isn't a huge problem for me. A bunch of 6'8" guys that are versitile isn't a bad thing. Unfortunately, when you have no Center and no Point - it causes a bit of a problem. I still vote (I'm not sure how popular this is) to give him a little more time with his ideas. I also am not sure how much his hands are tied due to the current ownership issues, so I'm willing to give him a small pass for now.

Mike Woodson - This guy is pretty much an idiot. I'm sure he'd be great as some sort of defensive-emphasis assistant coach, but as THE GUY - he's terrible. His in-game decisions are a joke; his substitution patterns are illogical; his use of timeouts is deplorable. I can't wait until he's fired. He and BK are apparently boys, and ownership continues to make excuses for the guy, and Sekou Smith seems to be against getting rid of the dude but I'm not sure why. Bring Adelman in, and let these guys run. I hate Mike Woodson.

The Team -

JJ - obviously I have a lot to say with regard to Joe and I'll start from the begining. I was stoked as a Suns fan when we acquired Joe from the Celtics for Tony Delk and Rodney Rodgers. I remember that morning my Dad called and asked, "Who is this?" I told him what I knew - "He's a versitle swingman that can do a little of everything. He's a stud." So, that year I bought a Joe jersey to show my support. Initially, Joe was hated in Phoenix. The team wasn't very good, and Joe seemed to have some serious confidence issues. If he missed a shot, Frank Johnson would take him out of the game immediately. This lead to a young kid, playing on the same team as his idol (Penny Hardaway) that was afraid to do anything... When the Suns fired Frank Johnson, I remember a group of fans holding up a sign that read, "Hey Jerry (Colangelo)! You fired the wrong Johnson! Get Rid of Joe!" I was annoyed. Shortly after Frank Johnson was fired, the Suns traded away Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to the Knicks in a salary dump. The remainder of that season (03-04), Joe got some serious minutes in a backcourt with Leandro Barbosa. Over that remainder of the season JJ almost averaged 20, 5, and 5.

That off-season Jerry Colangelo sold the team to Robert Sarver (whom I hate). They signed Steve Nash, they signed Quentin Richardson... they didn't give Joe a new deal (which would allow him to become a restricted free agent the following summer). At the time, not signing Joe cause quite a bit of a stir in Phoenix. Bryan Colangelo and Mike D'Antoni were irritated that a deal didn't get done (they were $5 million apart on a deal), but everyone pointed to the fact that it was Robert Sarver's first summer running the team and he had spent more money on Nash than he thought and was a little gunshy about signing another player to big money (Nash got 6yrs/$66 mil, Q got 5yrs/$48 mil). That pretty much left everyone nervous with "what if he has a huge year" type anxiety. The Suns went 62-20 that season. At the beginning of the offseason, Bryan Colangelo announced that getting Joe extended was a number one priority. They traded Q to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas, and most viewed that move as salary relief to free up money for Joe. We all know how it ended.

Here's why I got so much love for Joe. He's old-school. He's quiet. He doesn't bang his chest. He doesn't showboad. When I was a kid I loved Joe Dumars. He was a quiet professional that had to defend MJ. The Pistons had all these other guys (Zeke, Salley, Rodman, Laimbeer), but Dumars was the quiet guy that got you 20 a night and had the toughest matchups. Unfortunately these qualities don't garner a ton of respect nowadays. He's all steak, no sizzle. In phoenix - Amare, Shawn, Steve, Q, Leandro, Bo Outlaw... they all got more love than Joe.

I've seen a lot of talk on boards about Joe lately during December about his contract, his leadership skills, etc. I had an opportunity to smoke with Joe's mom during half-time when the Hawks came to Phoenix last year. He was booed everytime he touched the ball for the entire game. At halftime, Joe's mom was outside crying. I asked what was wrong and she couldn't find the words. I told her to keep her head up and everything would be fine. Here's what she said, "Joe never wanted this." According to Joe's mom (and I'm not trying to go all BBallPrincess) he didn't want to leave Phoenix. He had become good friends with Shawn Marion, Steve Nash, and Quentin Richardson. Q was helping him design a house in Paradise Valley (a suberb of Phoenix). Joe still loves the Colangelo's, and both Joe and Bryan understand that the reason he's still not a Sun was due to Robert Sarver. Joe's mom didn't have anything to say about Sarver, "I ain't got nothing to say about that man" was the quote. She added that in Atlanta "they" wanted him to be a leader and he's never really done that, nor did he want to. Joe just wanted to play basketball, he didn't know anything about being vocal b/c that's not him. I told her to tell Joe to keep his head up and everything would work out.

So when it comes to Joe's body language, etc. - it's this... he's not a leader. He's never been (even at Arkansas), and probably never will be one. He plays hard, he practices, he wants to win - but he's not a leader. I'm thinking his calf and his toe are bothering him, I'm thinking he's tired of all the injuries, I'm thinking that everything is wearing on him. Still being buddies with Shawn Marion and Steve Nash doesn't help - always having to hear about winning can be a little depressing (especially if you never wanted to leave anyway). I'm thinking he'll turn it around (the game against the Clips went well for him) as teammates come back - but again, he's not a leader. He's not wired to be one. Additionally, he's not a gunner. He's not going to shot over triple teams (Kobe, Wade, etc.), he'll pass. He's just a good kid.

J Smith - The sooner he realizes he should be Shawn Marion part two, the better. He plays best, and the team plays best when there aren't any plays run for him and he's getting his points, rebounds, etc. on put-backs, dunks, etc. Seriously, he's Shawn Marion. There's no reason why he shouldn't be 20 and 10 with two blocks and two steals in a few years.

Marvin - The jury is still out on this kid. I like the fire recently. He doesn't seem to know his game just yet. He has a pretty jumper, and some serious ups (ask Marcus Camby). His handles and his decision-making are still a little suspect, and he seems to get lost on D, but he's young. I think in a few years the trio of JJ, Smoov and Marvin could be one of the best in the league (see Gilbert, Butler, and Jamison in D.C.) The Hawks version would be a little different obviously, but I see a trio of Ray Allen/Michael Redd (played by Joe), Shawn Marion (played by Smoove), and Rashard Lewis (played by Marvin). That ain't half bad. I just hope the Hawks don't give up on this.

Chills - Last year I pretty much hated the dude for the first half of the year, but I think he's a great 6th man bringing energy and versitlity off the bench. He can guard 1-some 4's, he can shoot with a good percentage, and he does all the little things. He's a huge bust as far as a first rounder/lottery pick - but he's a valuable piece to the puzzle. Unfortunately it looks like he may be the first dealt in any kind of deal...

Speedy - Let me know when he's healthy. He's a nice player, but he's a backup. Nuff said.

Lue - See above.

ZaZa - I hate ZaZa. He's a joke. Everytime the ball goes to him in the post I scream in horror. He can't handle the ball, he's a bull in a China shop, he plays no D... ugh. He's a decent backup, but seriously folks - he's terrible as a starter. 30 minutes? Are you kdding me? The other thing that irritates me about him - he's a damn black hole. When he gets the ball near the basket - no one is getting it. He'll get an offensive board, but instead of kicking it out - he wants to take it up against 3 guys! This always leads to a turnover and wastes an opportunity for "Second Chance" points. I hate ZaZa. I could have a whole post about the dude, but I'm probably testing ya'lls patience with this crap...

Ren - Terrible. Trade him, release him, whatever. I don't care what kind of leader he is... he's a joke on the court.

Salim - Malcontent. He'll never be worth anything to anyone b/c he's impossible to keep happy. I'm in AZ, I saw and read about him plenty of times at U of A. He was miserable there, too. Sure he's a shooter, but I'll take Wesley Person before Salim. His D is terrible. He's a turnover machine. He's always cranky. Whatever.

Shelden - He's definately on the downs syndrome all-star team. All kidding aside... I didn't mind taking him in the draft. 5 was high, though. Ideally he becomes a PJ Brown/Kurt Thomas type with soft double-doubles. With JJ, Marvin and Smoov the Hawks don't need a big that can score - just get me 10ish pts and 10ish boards. Over the next few years I think that's what Shelden will become.

Solomon - I like the kid. Huge upside. I'd like to see him with a bit more beef, but he's active. I think he's a great off-the-bench freak to bring in and give 10-20 minutes of agressive, high-flying fun. Kinda a better shooting version of Steven Hunter (when he was with the Suns as Amare's back-up).

Anyone I didn't mention doesn't deserve the type.

Apologies again for such a long post... but that's the newbie's thoughts. Glad to be a part of such a great board!

Mark

[Plastic Man]

welcome aboard. i'm with you on most of your takes, although i wouldn't say i "hate" woody (even though he can be an idiot), or i "hate" zaza (even though he is the epitome of a black hole).

lol at the bballprincess reference.

[gsuteke]

enjoy your time here at the Squawk.

don't let the people with strong opinions keep you from speaking your mind.

[Diesel]

Welcome to Hawksquawk.

Post freely!

[CBAreject]

Thanks for the story.

I agree on JJ, Smoove, and Marvin. Pretty much agree on all the other players. I couldn't disagree more that Chillz is a huge bust as a #6 pick. Otherwise, good stuff.

Appreciate the Marion comparison. I don't know if Smoove will be Marion, but he's definitely in the mold of the smaller, athletic 4 that Marion and Stoudamire are. Marion is a much better shooter than Smoove, but then again, he wasn't that good as a 21-22 yo.

[TexasPete]

Your right on with a lot of your comments...except:

ZaZa isn't that bad. He is 22 so he is learning on the job like a few others. There have been nights (Clipper game) when we don't win without his play. Period.

Woody stuff is right on. The only folks backing Woody are the Spirit.

BK...you cut him way too much slack. We are still at the bottom of the league 4 years after he took the job. Sound like progress? Nope. He built this from scratch and we are still in the sewer. Why is Woody accountable but not Billy?

Good post though.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good post JJ. Welcome to the board.

A lot of people feel that your best player should also be the leader of the team. But in a lot of cases, that isn't the case.

As much as we all love Dominique Wilkins, Nique was never the leader of the Hawks.

It was either Doc Rivers or a guy like Craig Ehlo for a year or so, or a Mookie Blaylock that was the leader of this team, during all of the "winning" years of the Hawks. So I'm not expecting JJ to be anything that he isn't. Just keep being JJ, and that's fine with me.

Point guards are usually the "born leaders" in basketball. Those are the guys that I expect to lead your team emotionally and in organization out on the floor.. They're supposed to be the "cerebral" guys . . that extra "coach out on the floor". Sure, any player can assume that role, but for the most part, it is assumed by the PG.

Lue is the leader of the Hawks right now, whether Hawk fans like it our not. And it's not a coincidence that we've lost 8 out of 9 when he hasn't played.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Quote:

---

Your right on with a lot of your comments...except:

ZaZa isn't that bad. He is 22 so he is learning on the job like a few others. There have been nights (Clipper game) when we don't win without his play. Period.

Woody stuff is right on. The only folks backing Woody are the Spirit.

BK...you cut him way too much slack. We are still at the bottom of the league 4 years after he took the job. Sound like progress? Nope. He built this from scratch and we are still in the sewer. Why is Woody accountable but not Billy?

Good post though.

---

Wow . . I didn't know Woody has been the coach of the Hawks going on 4 years now?

I guess that's why people hate Woody so much. The losing have made it seem like he's been here longer than what he truly has.

[TexasPete]

If you would read for comprehension you would see I said BK has been here 4 years. Not Woody.

You are hereby elected President of the extremely small Woody fan club. You can be the voice of reason for all the idiots who want a better coach.

[Guest Atlanta]

Good, well thought post.

Welcome to HawkSquawk.

[CrawDaddy]

Great post. Especially the stuff on JJ in PHX and the insight on his leadership ability (or lackthereof).

I hope his time in Atlanta eventually turns into a winning scenario.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

my bad pete. i apologize. lol, i'm not part of the woody fan club. i just get tired of people who have no idea how to manage a b-ball game, calling woody an idiot. youth and inexperience in these new roles for the players, have 30% to do with our problems. injuries - 45%........ coaching - 25%. this team hasn't even had a chance to fully play with each other yet. no. of games our projected starters have played with each other: zero '..... and that even includes the preseason.

[DrReality]

It's good to have an 'objective' view. Like what you said. Hope JJ gets some help before he is overloaded too much.