Diesel's thoughts about the Hawks.

[Diesel]

We're not that far off (potentially).

I like to look at it from a positional point of view:

PG - I like Speedy/Lue rotation. I think Speedy brings defense and offensive captaining. I think Lue is that clutch shooter that opens up defenses. It's sorta like back in the day... Indy had Byron Scott, Heywood Workman, and Mark Jackson playing PG/OG. Byron was the scoring guy (OG), Jackson/Workman were the Offensive captains.

SG - JJ... Nuff said (Should be Allstar).

Sf - I like Both Childress and Smoove here. In fact, I see Chillz playing most of the time backing up Sf and Sg. I have to say that Marvin has been a disappointment and is extra.

PF - Shelden, Solomon, Batista. Oh, How I wish that this were true. IN truth, Batista and Solomon rarely leaves the bench and Shelden plays backup to Smoove because Marvin has to play.

C. Lo, Zaza. This is our injured toe. We get no defense from these two. However, Zaza is a good hustle player when he tries and tries not to be a star!

What we need really is frontcourt help.

We need a clear up at PF/C.

Smoove is not a Pf... but he plays hard.

I would use either our pick (indy) or a collection of players (Salim, Lo, Marvin) to bring in a Big who can play defense and offense. We need a vet.

I suppose, if we were giving up the pick... we could get Magloire... However, I wouldn't take him without a SNT...

I also think Dalembert will be available but the price is high.

There's talk of Gasol, but Gasol doesn't play defense.

I've brought up Kaman and Kaman is a legit big.

There's also guys like Foyle and Foster.

In the draft, there's a handful of guys.. but with no guarantees, i would kill our competitive spirit for a 25% shot.

[lunar]

i think that marvin's success is directly tied to the PG's success. it's a given that marvin can't create uch for himself, but when given an open shot, he can go 7/10 quickly. our problem is that we don't have anyone that can get him an open shot. lue is a scorer and speedy is an enigma. give marvin a point that can get him the ball in open space and you have kevin martin part two.

[jerrywest]

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i think that marvin's success is directly tied to the PG's success. it's a given that marvin can't create uch for himself, but when given an open shot, he can go 7/10 quickly. our problem is that we don't have anyone that can get him an open shot. lue is a scorer and speedy is an enigma. give marvin a point that can get him the ball in open space and you have kevin martin part two.

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No. That doesn't work. Diesel made up his mind long ago, and it can't be contaminated with new information. Just follow the course.

[exodus]

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However, Zaza is a good hustle player

when he tries and tries not to be a star!

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Huh?

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I have to say that Marvin has been a disappointment and is extra.

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What a shocker coming from you.

[Diesel]

It's the PG's fault...

Now, there's the admission that Marvin can't create his own shot, so the blame now falls on the PG.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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It's the PG's fault...

Now, there's the admission that Marvin can't create his own shot, so the blame now falls on the PG.

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Marvin has no problem creating his own shot. His problem is that he's not a good shooter off the dribble yet. That's something that he can learn to be better at.

Hell, Salim can create his own shot. That doesn't mean that he's a good shooter when he does.

Diesel, even though you despise Marvin, he is vital to what we are doing here, if not for anything, but from a depth standpoint. The fact that you blatantly omit Marvin from anything positive about this team, shows that you're just not objective when it comes to the kid. And it's a shame.

You're supposed to be better than that, and keep the overall interest of the T-E-A-M in mind . . not your personal agenda against Marvin. The kid shot almost 60% in an 8 game stretch, until the Laker game where he went 0 - 6.

The talent is definitely there. He's just not showing signs of being a "superstar" yet. I guess that's what everyone wants him to be right now . . a budding young superstar.

If it takes him a while to become a very good player, then so be it. Right now, all I want him to do is be a consistent player. And he's showing every sign that he can be just that for this team.

[lunar]

thank you.

i was just giving an interpretation of the situation. you didn't have to go postal on the kid diesel. he's not going to be wade but we've seen him shoot over 60% from the field and those have usually been the games where we have high assists. you give him the ball with space, he'll hit those shots with more consistancy than josh smith or josh childress.

[Diesel]

I'm a man with expectations of the highest pick in the history of the franchise. Honestly, I just get tired of all the excuses that are made for him.

I would love to see him become what we need.. but do we really need him?

Honestly, I would trade Marvin for a Big that can be what we really need so fast that it would make your head spin...

Sf is the easiest position in basketball to play. Marvin had to be the least scouted player in the history of the world. It's silly to say "let's wait 3 years for a Sf to develop"...

We're not talking about a PG.

We're not talking about an undersized Center.

We're talking about a Sf who already has the body of a Sf.

What's left to develop?? An agressive attitude??

Hello Tim Thomas.

I'll just simply state the truth.. Thus far, he has been a disappointment.

When I said that and when I say it that way, it still leaves room for him to impress in the future! It doesn't require you to crank up the excuse machine and talk about his age, his hand, his Pg, his ADD, his addiction to rugrats, his my little pony collection, his mother having to work across town, his never having a big brother, his father not being a good role model, his lack of playing time during his AAU years... etc...

Just accept the truth of the matter and move on hopefully.

[exodus]

So if he doesn't meet the expectations of a number 2 pick that means he can't help the team?

I think if he can become a good scorer he can help the team a lot even if he never makes an All-Star game. Of course that doesn't mean he was the right pick but it does mean he is helping the team.

[lunar]

how about the fact that this is what they said two years ago... wait three years for him to develop. it's not idoitic, it's the facts, there is a reason why they said three years, not two, not one, three. it will take three years. they didn't say three years about lebron, or carmelo, or wade, or even bosh, they were known to be good players time they were drafted. with marvin they said three years. i'm willing to wait that extra offseason of practice and training. he's already had twenty points games and he's had games where he goes over 70% from the field. next year he should be able to put up comparable points on a more consistant basis.

[capstone21]

I am not a pro get rid of Marvin because I see the potential there. However, I do recognize the redundancy in our lineups.

The following trade will do two things, it will get us our point guard and defensive presence at the center position:

Marvin/Lo/Speedy for Miller/Dalembert.

I think Philly would make this trade to clear up salaries and to take on a player with Marvin's potential. They only have Lo's salary for another season and Speedy as their pg.

Atlanta now has:

Dalembert/Zaza

Sheldon/Jones/Batista

Smith/Childress

JJ/Richardson/Salim

Miller/Lue/Ivey

The question is would Atlanta be willing to take on Dalembert's salary. I don't know if I would do it because Dally's salary is pretty crazy and I think Jones has the potential to be like Dally with PT and experience.

This is a team that can compete and with Miller's leadership I think JJ, Smith and Childress will be even better. It is just that Dalembert is WAY WAY overpaid. I like the Dally / Zaza rotation though. D for O.

[Diesel]

There will always be the statement that the Hawks f===== up in that draft...

However, that's not the problem at the moment.

The problem at the moment is that we have players who can do what you want Marvin to do Better than Marvin can do it.

Honestly. Smoove is a Sf. He's better at it than Marvin. Chillz is a 2 or 3.. but he plays Sf better than Marvin.

All the time we play Marvin at the 3, we either move somebody more competent to the bench or out of position.

I really hope that Marvin becomes grant Hill like so we can put him and some draft picks together and get Dwight Howard in a force out.. but again, that's a pipe dream!

[Diesel]

Philly would definitely do it. Especially if they can find some losing ways.

The problem is that we don't have the money... Not in our ownership.. Capwise.

Capwise, we're holding about ~8 million.

If we did that trade, we'd be taking on about 19 million.

Minus the ~8 million, that's ~11 more million we'd have to come up with:

Marvin 5.0, Lue, 3.25, Wright 2.25... Actually, we'd be very close?

Hmm..

That would definitley put us closer to the playoffs if not in the 2nd round:

Miller, JJ, JS, SW, Dale...

[exodus]

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Honestly. Smoove is a Sf. He's better at it than Marvin. Chillz is a 2 or 3.. but he plays Sf better than Marvin.

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Smith has put up the best numbers of his career at the 4. How many 20/10 games did he have at the 3?

Chill needs to be spoon fed his shots. His release is so low that he can't get a shot off unless he is wide open and he is too slow to beat anyone off the dribble.

Marvin might now be as good as Chill right now overall but the talent is certainly there and is starting to show. I am not in the "Marvin will be a star" camp because i don't see any star in Marvin. However i do think he will wind up being better at the 3 than Chill.

[macdaddy]

I look at the future of our team being JJ, Smoove, and I would think Chill unless we get a great trade offer for him. Everyone else is expendable for the right deal.

Speedy, Lue, ZaZa, Shelden I like too but I don't consider them the core yet.

I was all for the Marvin pick but I just don't see him justifying his playing time right now. He may improve and be a superstar but his play is inconsistent at best. I'm not hating on him but in his actual play this season no part of his game has been above average. I still pull for him every game though.

I just can't understand why Solomon and Ivey aren't getting minutes. I'm not saying they are fantastic but Ivey is a good defender and can knock down a few shots and Solomon is great high energy and would improve quickly with playing time I think.

[capstone21]

I am talking about Claxton not Lue because that would put 2 million more into the deal that Philly would have to take on. I like Speedy more then Lue but when we have Miller I think Lue would fit better off the bench. Also, his contract is shorter then Claxton's.

If Dally can keep playing the way he has been lately and Sheldon plays like he had been earlier in the season when Smith/Marvin were out then we will be a very tough team to beat.

[lunar]

josh wasn't good at SF at all. you saw how he did when marvin was out. it was good for all of two games. after that all the defender had to do was drop back and force josh to take a jumpshot. i'm good with him taking 3 maybe for a game, but he had to take nearly 8 jumpers a game when he was put at that position, he's better off as the PF where he can stay in the post area so that he doesn't have to cover too much ground to help on the weakside. i agree that childress is better right now as a SF than marvin, but once again childress is already getting 30+ minutes a game and that's with marvin in the lineup. more of a burden on him and you'll have pachulia all over again.

[Diesel]

What's the wait about for a 6'8 235 Sf...

Let me tell you what it's not:

1. It's not size. Marvin has perfect size for the Sf.

2. It's not BBIQ: Mainly because BBIQ isn't needed for the Sf position.

The only other thing is aggressiveness...

You can't teach, train agressiveness this late. If so, Olowakhandi and Tim Thomas would be perennial allstars.

When they said it would take him 3 years.. You guys never asked the most important question. You just took it and put it in your wallet like a membership card... "Well you know it's going to take 3 years."

That's the same line of BS that came with Bender. That's the same line of BS that came with Swift.

BK has become awesome at making people believe that these skillless positions require a waiting period.

Did you know that Nique's first year at Sf he put up 17.5 and 9.5?

[lunar]

i remember woodson saying that solomon wasn't supposed to get PT at all this year. i'm guessing they wanted him to work on the fundamentals of the game before they through him out. usually when he get in, he gets close to five fouls in three minutes.

[Diesel]

Maybe you should consider that Smoove has put up his best numbers now.

I guarantee you if he started tonight at Sf (which may happen) he would put up the same or better numbers.

Now: Smoove is not injured.

Now: Smoove is the second option.

Now: Smoove is more mature.

The fact that he lines up as a Pf (by number) doesn't mean so much. He still plays offense like a Sf and he still has trouble 1 on 1 against bigs... Odom and the Lakers got their share of offensive boards.