Diesel's thoughts about the Hawks.

[lunar]

with bender it became a busted knee that caused him to retire not a work ethic, the pacers were ready to extend him (not to a max salary but extend nonetheless) but he just couldn't play anymore. with swift it was a lack of IQ period. he relied on his athletcism only and that's what held him back.

with marvin it's working on making him more consistant to the point that whenever he gets the ball he can put it in the hoop. we know he has good form on the jumper and when he gets hot he can get twenty in a game. consistancy and skill go hand-in-hand.

they said three years to become consistant. so far he's on track.

[lunar]

if smith played SF, his FG% would drop. he wouldn't be able to go to the hoop like he has been (loses the speed adv.) and he would have more difficulty with help side defense (opposing SF would just go into a corner and challenge him to go help just so he could get an open shot from the kick-out. being a PF gives him advantages that he is now learning to use. put him at SF and he loses those advantages.

[AtLaS]

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Maybe you should consider that Smoove has put up his best numbers now.

I guarantee you if he started tonight at Sf (which may happen) he would put up the same or better numbers.

Now: Smoove is not injured.

Now: Smoove is the second option.

Now: Smoove is more mature.

The fact that he lines up as a Pf (by number) doesn't mean so much. He still plays offense like a Sf and he still has trouble 1 on 1 against bigs... Odom and the Lakers got their share of offensive boards.

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This is not true. Smoove gets beat off the dribble by quick SFs. By the same token, he can beat PFs off the dribble because PFs are less quick than SFs. Smoove doesn't have the jumpshot (yet) to play SF either. Plus with his improving jumpshot, it makes PFs have to step out and guard him, and in turn he is beating them off the dribble. The main thing is that his handles aren't good enough for playing the SF position.

He also can rebound much better from the PF position, and can get more blocks without having to completely leave his man to play help defense. By playing PF, leaving his man for the helpside block isn't as big an issue.

BTW Smoove was over 6'8 WITHOUT SHOES as a ROOKIE, this means he is borderline 6'10 with shoes on, if not an even 6'10.

I've said this so many times, Smoove can be K-mart in Jersey with a better shot and better defense.. What's the difference between the two??

[exodus]

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The fact that he lines up as a Pf (by number) doesn't mean so much.

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yes it does. Smith's ball handling isn't that good but he can beat 4s off the dribble much more easily than 3s.

He has also been doing better defensively at the 4. And if he is playing a guy who is too big for him it is much easier to double in the post than to double on the perimeter against a wing.

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Odom and the Lakers got their share of offensive boards.

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That is because the Hawks get no defensive rebounding from the center position. Zaza sucks on the defensive boards. Smith averages almost 50% more defensive boards than Zaza. In fact Zaza is 4th on the team in defensive rebounding.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I look at the future of our team being JJ, Smoove, and I would think Chill unless we get a great trade offer for him. Everyone else is expendable for the right deal.

Speedy, Lue, ZaZa, Shelden I like too but I don't consider them the core yet.

I was all for the Marvin pick but I just don't see him justifying his playing time right now. He may improve and be a superstar but his play is inconsistent at best. I'm not hating on him but in his actual play this season no part of his game has been above average. I still pull for him every game though.

I just can't understand why Solomon and Ivey aren't getting minutes. I'm not saying they are fantastic but Ivey is a good defender and can knock down a few shots and Solomon is great high energy and would improve quickly with playing time I think.

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LOL . . the guy shot almost 60% in an 8-game stretch. And I guess the back spasms limited what he could do in that Laker game . . his first real bad game in over 3 weeks.

I tell ya. Once people turn on a guy on this board, it's hard to bring them around. Marvin has been knocking down open 18 - 21 footers for 2 weeks now, and he gets no credit for doing that? He even got that low shooting percentage up to 42% for the season, before that Laker game . . ( dropped to 41% ). I don't think Smoove is even at 44% FG for the year yet.

The guy just can't get the benefit of the doubt from some of you.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The only other thing is aggressiveness...

You can't teach, train agressiveness this late. If so, Olowakhandi and Tim Thomas would be perennial allstars.

When they said it would take him 3 years.. You guys never asked the most important question. You just took it and put it in your wallet like a membership card... "Well you know it's going to take 3 years."

That's the same line of BS that came with Bender. That's the same line of BS that came with Swift.

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This late? LOL. He's only been in the league 1.5 years.

And isn't the "aggressiveness" factor the same BS that Phoenix fans tried to sell us about JJ? That he was too "passive" of a player to be a big time guy in this league?

It just goes to show you Diesel, that you have to deal with people on an individual basis. With the Hawks, Marvin only has to make those open shots and occasionally provide some rebounding, defense, and post offense. He doesn't have to be a superstar type talent. Just a solid one.

And he WILL improve. Just like all of the other kids have improved here, outside of Salim.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The fact that he lines up as a Pf (by number) doesn't mean so much.

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yes it does. Smith's ball handling isn't that good but he can beat 4s off the dribble much more easily than 3s.

He has also been doing better defensively at the 4. And if he is playing a guy who is too big for him it is much easier to double in the post than to double on the perimeter against a wing.

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Odom and the Lakers got their share of offensive boards.

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That is because the Hawks get no defensive rebounding from the center position. Zaza sucks on the defensive boards. Smith averages almost 50% more defensive boards than Zaza. In fact Zaza is 4th on the team in defensive rebounding.

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Ex . . . Smoove is basically doing now, what Diaw did in Phoenix last year. When he's matched up against 4's, he can get better looks offensively and get to the basket easier. Diaw killed 4s and 5s on the offensive end, because he was much quicker than they were. And Smoove is doing the same thing as of late. So you are dead on with what you're saying about Smoove and his improvement at the 4.

And some of that credit, has to go to Woody for playing him there.

[Diesel]

Another sign that you don't watch games is here...

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Smith's ball handling isn't that good but he can beat 4s off the dribble much more easily than 3s.

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Smith has been a much ball handler period. He even drives the lane.. that's with a Sf or a Pf on him.

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He has also been doing better defensively at the 4.

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Well, most of the time, we play Zone. I find it to be a funny kind of Zone since Zaza is trying to play the normal 4 spot and Smoove is playing the 5... but I believe the purpose is it gives Smoove room to roam. I guess now, we should make a pitch for Smoove to play 5 right. You can watch 82 games.com all you want and you can let them tell you how Smoove plays. I watch the real games...and I know for a fact, he doesn't play the usual 4.

[exodus]

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Smith has been a much ball handler period.

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Smith has a long way to go to be an average ball handler at the 3. His improvement is more noticable since he is going against bigger, slower guys.

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Well, most of the time, we play Zone.

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No we don't. We play zone less than half the time against most teams.

[Nicholasp27]

smoove at pf:

+6.8 on his opp

smoove at sf:

+2.0 on his opp

his offensive per is only 19.6 pf vs 18.8 sf...

but his DEFENSIVE per is 12.8 pf vs 16.8 sf...

so he defends pfs MUCH better

smoove is our pf of the future...we've been saying it since he was drafted

shelden, meanwhile, goes from +2.7 at center to -12.1 at pf...he scores DOUBLE as center than as pf

speedy/jj/marvin/smoove/shelden is a fine lineup

draft a pg with indy's pick to groom for the future

jj/chill/slim man the sg position

marvin/chill/jj/smoove man the sf position

smoove/shelden/marvin/solo man the pf position

shelden/zaza/solo man the center position

[AHF]

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BBIQ isn't needed for the Sf position.

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Is this your pitch to trade for Darius Miles? j/k IMO, BBIQ is needed for every position. Scottie Pippen's BBIQ, for example, or Larry Bird's BBIQ are largely why they were hall of famers. Their minds were at least as important to their success as their skills or physique.

[TheDude]

personally, i still think he's going to be a star.

[jerrywest]

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Smoove and his improvement at the 4.

And some of that credit, has to go to Woody for playing him there.

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Did Woody have any other choice? Marvin + Chillz gets almost all SF minutes when they are not injured.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Smoove and his improvement at the 4.

And some of that credit, has to go to Woody for playing him there.

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Did Woody have any other choice? Marvin + Chillz gets almost all SF minutes when they are not injured.

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I have no problem with Smoove at the four. He basically shut down Odom the other night. And those who disagree obviously didn't see the game.

[jerrywest]

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Smoove and his improvement at the 4.

And some of that credit, has to go to Woody for playing him there.

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Did Woody have any other choice? Marvin + Chillz gets almost all SF minutes when they are not injured.

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I have no problem with Smoove at the four. He basically shut down Odom the other night. And those who disagree obviously didn't see the game.

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I don't know that. Odom had 18 rebounds. His jump shots were way off. On a good shooting night you would call that a monstar game.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Smoove and his improvement at the 4.

And some of that credit, has to go to Woody for playing him there.

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Did Woody have any other choice? Marvin + Chillz gets almost all SF minutes when they are not injured.

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I have no problem with Smoove at the four. He basically shut down Odom the other night. And those who disagree obviously didn't see the game.

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I don't know that. Odom had 18 rebounds. His jump shots were way off. On a good shooting night you would call that a monstar game.

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He had a good rebounding night because both teams were bad from the floor for most of the game...i.e. there were a lot of rebounds to get. But whenever they posted up Odom on Smoove, Smoove would alter his shot, and make him take bad angles. I mean it was becoming embarrassing.

[exodus]

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Odom had 18 rebounds.

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He had 13 defensive rebounds. Considering the Hawks missed 43 shots and the rest of the Lakers don't rebound that well it isn't that surprising.

It also isn't surprising that he got 5 offensive rebounds considering he missed 13 shots.

[Johnnybravo4]

And I think that what was lost from that game was the illustration of Smoove's improvement in man defense.

[exodus]

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And I think that what was lost from that game was the illustration of Smoove's improvement in man defense.

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It is only lost on the people who last year were saying that Smith couldn't play the 4.