How much criticism of BK/Woody is rooted in Racism

[Swatguy]

I have often thought a lot of criticism of the Administration is rooted on racism. Some will now accuse me of pulling the "race card". But racism is very vailed and disguised. I have read many post concerning the failings of Woody and/or BK when the actual failings are the players themselves (in many cases).

So how much do you really think the hate is racism or what?

[gsuteke]

really. you better leave that "card" in your deck for another time when you won't get laughed out of the building.

[Diesel]

On this note... a little History...

Lon Kruger was the worst coach in the History of Hawks basketball.. Even worst than Bob Weiss. Lon wasn't worse by record, he was worst in that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.

I criticize Woody's inability to run and sometimes his lineups. However, Woody is about 10 times better than Lon.

Unfortunately, Lon didn't get this much criticism on HS.

Is there a racial overtone?? Maybe. But I think more likely is that Some HSers don't watch the games to notice coaching.. They watch the game to notice the final score and if there's a W or an L.

For if they watched for coaching, they wouldn't give praise to the players without praising Wood some.

BK is a different story. I think he was totally accepted from the get go. However, his plan is taking a long time with some questionable moves. However, I think missing in the discussion of BK is the effect of Ownership's problems.

Missing in the discussion of Woody is what kind of table BK is setting for him!

[AtLaS]

not the least bit. The NBA is probably 80-85% black anyway, why would we be racist towards the GM or head coach?

[Vol4ever]

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I have often thought a lot of criticism of the Administration is rooted on racism. Some will now accuse me of pulling the "race card". But racism is very vailed and disguised. I have read many post concerning the failings of Woody and/or BK when the actual failings are the players themselves (in many cases).

So how much do you really think the hate is racism or what?

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I cannot believe you would be this ignorant!

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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On this note... a little History...

Lon Kruger was the worst coach in the History of Hawks basketball.. Even worst than Bob Weiss. Lon wasn't worse by record, he was worst in that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.

I criticize Woody's inability to run and sometimes his lineups. However, Woody is about 10 times better than Lon.

Unfortunately, Lon didn't get this much criticism on HS.

Is there a racial overtone?? Maybe. But I think more likely is that Some HSers don't watch the games to notice coaching.. They watch the game to notice the final score and if there's a W or an L.

For if they watched for coaching, they wouldn't give praise to the players without praising Wood some.

BK is a different story. I think he was totally accepted from the get go. However, his plan is taking a long time with some questionable moves. However, I think missing in the discussion of BK is the effect of Ownership's problems.

Missing in the discussion of Woody is what kind of table BK is setting for him!

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so how do you explain questionable substitution patterns, leaving the ferrari's in the garage by refusing to up the tempo, the complete absence of an offensive system, need i go on?

[drzachary]

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I have often thought a lot of criticism of the Administration is rooted on racism. Some will now accuse me of pulling the "race card". But racism is very vailed and disguised. I have read many post concerning the failings of Woody and/or BK when the actual failings are the players themselves (in many cases).

So how much do you really think the hate is racism or what?

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I don't think it's racism. It's just that we all have a lot of anger and nowhere to direct it. Some of us take it in stride, some of us post 6 or 7 thousand times per day about our rookies who are the worst in history, some post about our front office's past failings.

This board exists for the therapy of depressed, rageaholic fans.

[Diesel]

Like I said..

I question his ability to run and his substitution pattern.

However, just like the other day...

Woody drew up the play for Lue to take the last shot. Lue shot it and won the game.

Go back, check the record... How much praise was woody given??

Moreover, there's times that our defense have come to life and has stimeyed a team... How much credit was Woody given. I've heard guys trying to give Herb Brown credit for good defensive play. Come on man.

[gsuteke]

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Like I said..

I question his ability to run and his substitution pattern.

However, just like the other day...

Woody drew up the play for Lue to take the last shot. Lue shot it and won the game.

Go back, check the record... How much praise was woody given??

Moreover, there's times that our defense have come to life and has stimeyed a team... How much credit was Woody given. I've heard guys trying to give Herb Brown credit for good defensive play. Come on man.

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and on Laker radio the announcers were befuddled at Atlanta not running any offensive plays. they walked the ball down and looked for the best jumpshot. watch the tape.

[CBAreject]

Why is criticism equivalent to "hate" in sports forums. It's the same at the falcons forum. They say "HATER" any time someone criticizes Vick (who merits criticism). They play the race card in that case, too.

I don't hate BK or Woody. I think they're both good guys. BK is pretty sharp...his ideas are just a bit far out and impractical. Woody is a really good guy who seems to keep his players motivated through losing. I don't think either one is particularly good at his job on the whole, though. For that reason I think they should both be fired.

It seems like your tenuous argument is based on the fact that we preferentially criticize the "administration" over the players. The players are mostly the same race as the GM/coach! How is that evidence of racism. So far, the only evidence you've given me is that we don't like the GM/HC and they're black, so that must be the reason.

Please let's have no more discussion of this non-issue.

[AtLaS]

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Woody drew up the play for Lue to take the last shot. Lue shot it and won the game.

Go back, check the record... How much praise was woody given??

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Do you give Lawrence Frank credit for Vince making that shot yesterday?

It was a clearout and Vince made it happen. Just like Lue, we cleared out, Lue crossed and hit a long jumper, I give 95% credit to Lue.

[TheDude]

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I have often thought a lot of criticism of the Administration is rooted on racism. Some will now accuse me of pulling the "race card". But racism is very vailed and disguised. I have read many post concerning the failings of Woody and/or BK when the actual failings are the players themselves (in many cases).

So how much do you really think the hate is racism or what?

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are you insane.. you trivialize true racism complaints when it's pulled for stuff like this.. just because people jump on woody and bk, doesnt mean it's race.

it's like george bush. he screws up so much that when he doesnt, people still blame him (i do it myself sometimes). i can't beleive you started this thread.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

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On this note... a little History...

Lon Kruger was the worst coach in the History of Hawks basketball.. Even worst than Bob Weiss. Lon wasn't worse by record, he was worst in that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.

I criticize Woody's inability to run and sometimes his lineups. However, Woody is about 10 times better than Lon.

Unfortunately, Lon didn't get this much criticism on HS.

Is there a racial overtone?? Maybe. But I think more likely is that Some HSers don't watch the games to notice coaching.. They watch the game to notice the final score and if there's a W or an L.

For if they watched for coaching, they wouldn't give praise to the players without praising Wood some.

BK is a different story. I think he was totally accepted from the get go. However, his plan is taking a long time with some questionable moves. However, I think missing in the discussion of BK is the effect of Ownership's problems.

Missing in the discussion of Woody is what kind of table BK is setting for him!

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!'ve cursed out just about everybody that has been 1nvolved w!th the Hawks the last 10 years. The Hawks made the same m1stakes that franch!ses l!ke Golden State make. !t leads to lots and lots of los!ng.

-!nexper!enced Head coaches

-Bad FA s!gn!ngs

-College coaches

The Hawks have had plenty of these 3 th!ngs the last 10 years.

[Diesel]

There's no doubt that our offense is a mystery and needs work. But that's not all a coach does. Moreover, there are some things that we do well, some not so well. Moving to a Zone where Smoove plays the middle so that he can roam and block shots.. That's a good thing. That's from coaching. Playing JChillz as the OG and letting him run the offense for a stretch, that's actually a good thing (it gives us a mismatch somewhere)...

If you want to just go and pinpoint one area and stick on that as for why somebody is a bad coach, then there are no good coaches.

Phil Jackson, Lenny Wilkins, and Pat Riley are terrible at young Player development.

Jerry Sloan is bad at utilizing his Sfs in an offensive scheme.

Byron Scott can't coach without an allstar PG...

Etc...

[Diesel]

You knew that BK had to pick an experienced coach...

Listen to the line:

"Hi, I want you to coach my team. I want you to know this coming in, I plan to trade away every good player that is there, go under the salary cap for 2 to 3 years, and build from the draft and the NBADL... and I can't afford to pay you much......"

How many experienced coaches would say "Yes, I want to build my legacy on a team filled with young players".

That's why we have Woody. I wish we could have kept Stotts, but something tells me that he and BK had run ins before BK became GM.

[Diesel]

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Do you give Lawrence Frank credit for Vince making that shot yesterday?

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YES!

Frank could have drawn up a play with Kidd passing it to Mickey on the 3 pt line... if he wanted to..

However, experienced, he knew that his best bet was to give it to his best player moving toward the basket on a clear out. Smoove was off the court so the same thing that happened Sunday shouldn't have happened.

[Diesel]

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Just like Lue, we cleared out, Lue crossed and hit a long jumper, I give 95% credit to Lue.

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Didn't part of you wonder why JJ didn't get the last shot the other night?? Why was it a play that was seemingly for Lue only?

I understand that you say that Lue made the shot.. and that's good that it made it, he should be able to make it. I'm saying that Lue didn't go to the huddle and say " I'm getting the ball and I will win the game." Woody looked over JJ, JSmoove, JChillz, and Lue and he said "I want Lue to get the ball on a clear out and hit the shot...".

[AtLaS]

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Do you give Lawrence Frank credit for Vince making that shot yesterday?

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YES!

Frank could have drawn up a play with Kidd passing it to Mickey on the 3 pt line... if he wanted to..

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lol thats not coaching, that's just common sense.

[AtLaS]

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Just like Lue, we cleared out, Lue crossed and hit a long jumper, I give 95% credit to Lue.

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Didn't part of you wonder why JJ didn't get the last shot the other night?? Why was it a play that was seemingly for Lue only?

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Well Lue has proven to be very clutch in the past, and he's always able to get his shot, and JJ had already dropped 37, so he was going to be doubled. So I guess I give some credit to Woody, but most to Lue.

[chillzatl]

If you mean the real version where people of one race hate another and conspire against another race simply because of their race, I would say none.

If you mean the modern day version that is passed off as racism, when a person of one race dares to criticize someone of another race based on their poor performance or poorly thought out actions, then possibly. But then again, this isn't really racism, it's just a convenient out that gets used because race A knows they can use it on race B and avoid having to answer for their individual poor decisions or choices.