Thanks, Phoenix. JJ is an ALL-STAR!

[AHF]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

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Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

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I think he is arguing past performance is a consideration in all-star selection. I do think that is a legit argument for the practical realities of the selection process, if not also for the ideal selection process.

[AtLaS]

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Dallas has changed coaches and has had a new approach s!nce Nash was there. Don't you th!nk that makes ab!t of d!fference.

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Yeah changing coaches makes a bigger difference than LOSING A 2 TIME MVP!!

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You seen f!rst hand how bad the GS !s under Don Nelson. Coach!ng can make a pretty b!g d!fference. Nelly !s one of the worst coaches ever. He !gnores half the game and that makes h!m a pretty awful coach.

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I'm sorry when was Golden State better?? You do know they haven't made the playoffs in like 12 years right?? You do know that J-Rich has been out all year right??

[Plainview1981]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

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Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

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Past !s a part of !t. However, they're also pretty close product!on w!se th!s year. !'m not a trendy person, so ! don't look at !t on a year by year bas!s.

[AHF]

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Dallas has changed coaches and has had a new approach s!nce Nash was there. Don't you th!nk that makes ab!t of d!fference.

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Yeah changing coaches makes a bigger difference than LOSING A 2 TIME MVP!!

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You seen f!rst hand how bad the GS !s under Don Nelson. Coach!ng can make a pretty b!g d!fference. Nelly !s one of the worst coaches ever. He !gnores half the game and that makes h!m a pretty awful coach.

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They are projected to win more games with Nelson than they did last year - even with Baron Davis and Jason Richardson out for most of the year.

[AtLaS]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

---

Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

---

I think he is arguing past performance is a consideration in all-star selection. I do think that is a legit argument for the practical realities of the selection process, if not also for the ideal selection process.

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I see what he is saying, but it should not matter pertaining to THIS YEAR though. Shaq got in because of the fans, although he shouldn't have made it at all, but if you get voted in as a starter it doesn't matter. I do agree that Vince should be an all-star.

However, my point is that NJ isn't winning either, and Vince's stats aren't better than JJ's, so what makes him deserve to be an all-star OVER JJ this year? Not to mention he's playing with a top 10 PG of all time.

[Plainview1981]

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Dallas has changed coaches and has had a new approach s!nce Nash was there. Don't you th!nk that makes ab!t of d!fference.

---

Yeah changing coaches makes a bigger difference than LOSING A 2 TIME MVP!!

---

You seen f!rst hand how bad the GS !s under Don Nelson. Coach!ng can make a pretty b!g d!fference. Nelly !s one of the worst coaches ever. He !gnores half the game and that makes h!m a pretty awful coach.

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They are projected to win more games with Nelson than they did last year - even with Baron Davis and Jason Richardson out for most of the year.

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Nelly !s better than a college coach !n the NBA, but that !sn't say!ng much.

[Plainview1981]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

---

Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

---

I think he is arguing past performance is a consideration in all-star selection. I do think that is a legit argument for the practical realities of the selection process, if not also for the ideal selection process.

---

I see what he is saying, but it should not matter pertaining to THIS YEAR though. Shaq got in because of the fans, although he shouldn't have made it at all, but if you get voted in as a starter it doesn't matter. I do agree that Vince should be an all-star.

However, my point is that NJ isn't winning either, and Vince's stats aren't better than JJ's, so what makes him deserve to be an all-star OVER JJ this year? Not to mention he's playing with a top 10 PG of all time.

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He has a better resume and the fans l!ke h!m. ! know yo uwant to assume that JJ would be so much better play!n!ng w!th K!dd, but ! don't th!nk that's the case. ! th!nk he'd be closer to h!s Suns days rather than get better.

[AtLaS]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

---

Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

---

I think he is arguing past performance is a consideration in all-star selection. I do think that is a legit argument for the practical realities of the selection process, if not also for the ideal selection process.

---

I see what he is saying, but it should not matter pertaining to THIS YEAR though. Shaq got in because of the fans, although he shouldn't have made it at all, but if you get voted in as a starter it doesn't matter. I do agree that Vince should be an all-star.

However, my point is that NJ isn't winning either, and Vince's stats aren't better than JJ's, so what makes him deserve to be an all-star OVER JJ this year? Not to mention he's playing with a top 10 PG of all time.

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He has a better resume and the fans l!ke h!m.

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In other words you have no argument whatsoever..

[AHF]

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Dallas has changed coaches and has had a new approach s!nce Nash was there. Don't you th!nk that makes ab!t of d!fference.

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Yeah changing coaches makes a bigger difference than LOSING A 2 TIME MVP!!

---

You seen f!rst hand how bad the GS !s under Don Nelson. Coach!ng can make a pretty b!g d!fference. Nelly !s one of the worst coaches ever. He !gnores half the game and that makes h!m a pretty awful coach.

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They are projected to win more games with Nelson than they did last year - even with Baron Davis and Jason Richardson out for most of the year.

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Nelly !s better than a college coach !n the NBA, but that !sn't say!ng much.

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He has the second most wins in NBA history so I think that should give him some credibility.

He probably ranks no worse than 4th or 5th out of active NBA coaches in terms of winning % (obviously behind Riley and Jackson and Popovich).

[Plainview1981]

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V!nce... Statw!se he's pretty close to JJ,

he's proven that he can w!n,

he's well l!ked by the fans. So yes, he should get !n over JJ.

---

Again, you are using the PAST. What does this have to do with being an all-star THIS YEAR??

---

I think he is arguing past performance is a consideration in all-star selection. I do think that is a legit argument for the practical realities of the selection process, if not also for the ideal selection process.

---

I see what he is saying, but it should not matter pertaining to THIS YEAR though. Shaq got in because of the fans, although he shouldn't have made it at all, but if you get voted in as a starter it doesn't matter. I do agree that Vince should be an all-star.

However, my point is that NJ isn't winning either, and Vince's stats aren't better than JJ's, so what makes him deserve to be an all-star OVER JJ this year? Not to mention he's playing with a top 10 PG of all time.

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He has a better resume and the fans l!ke h!m.

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In other words you have no argument whatsoever..

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When the!r pretty close to the same players those th!ngs become d!fference makers.

[Plainview1981]

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Dallas has changed coaches and has had a new approach s!nce Nash was there. Don't you th!nk that makes ab!t of d!fference.

---

Yeah changing coaches makes a bigger difference than LOSING A 2 TIME MVP!!

---

You seen f!rst hand how bad the GS !s under Don Nelson. Coach!ng can make a pretty b!g d!fference. Nelly !s one of the worst coaches ever. He !gnores half the game and that makes h!m a pretty awful coach.

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They are projected to win more games with Nelson than they did last year - even with Baron Davis and Jason Richardson out for most of the year.

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Nelly !s better than a college coach !n the NBA, but that !sn't say!ng much.

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He has the second most wins in NBA history so I think that should give him some credibility.

He probably ranks no worse than 4th or 5th out of active NBA coaches in terms of winning % (obviously behind Riley and Jackson and Popovich).

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He's a worse vers!on of Lenny W!lkens. Atleast Lenny can say he won desp!te not hav!ng an extremely talented team.

Nelly always has really talented teams that always manage to underache!ve.

[AtLaS]

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When the!r pretty close to the same players those th!ngs become d!fference makers.

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Such a hypocrite. First JJ's a player who doesn't deserve to get in because he's just a player who puts up stats on a bad team, and now he's almost the same player as Vince?? So in other words, you're saying that Vince taking his team to the playoffs 4 years ago qualifies him to make the all-star game THIS YEAR, but JJ doesn't deserve a RESERVE SPOT, even AFTER KIDD IS INJURED??? Go get an argument, you're running out of sh!t to make up.

[AHF]

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My point is that a team's success is the function of a lot of moving parts and you can't discount JJ or Nash's value simply by looking at the change in their old team's total wins.

If you use that analysis, though, it is:

JJ's team loses 8 more games without him

Nash's team wins 6 more games without him

That comes off looking pretty good for JJ.

Frankly, I think it is pretty obvious that they are both very good players.

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Getting back to the issue of how you analyze a player's value, I think we should address this with the correction that Phoenix did worse after losing JJ than it did with him.

[Plainview1981]

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My point is that a team's success is the function of a lot of moving parts and you can't discount JJ or Nash's value simply by looking at the change in their old team's total wins.

If you use that analysis, though, it is:

JJ's team loses 8 more games without him

Nash's team wins 6 more games without him

That comes off looking pretty good for JJ.

Frankly, I think it is pretty obvious that they are both very good players.

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Getting back to the issue of how you analyze a player's value, I think we should address this with the correction that Phoenix did worse after losing JJ than it did with him.

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Amare was out last year. ! bel!eve they would have went to the f!nals and probably w!n the t!tle !f Amare !sn't out. H*,, they gave the west a run for !t's money w!thout h!m.

[AtLaS]

so losing Amare makes a difference, but Dallas losing Nash (2 time MVP) doesn't?? Again, such a hypocrite.

[Plainview1981]

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When the!r pretty close to the same players those th!ngs become d!fference makers.

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Such a hypocrite. First JJ's a player who doesn't deserve to get in because he's just a player who puts up stats on a bad team, and now he's almost the same player as Vince?? So in other words, you're saying that Vince taking his team to the playoffs 4 years ago qualifies him to make the all-star game THIS YEAR, but JJ doesn't deserve a RESERVE SPOT, even AFTER KIDD IS INJURED??? Go get an argument, you're running out of sh!t to make up.

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!'m say!ng that h!m tak!ng h!s team to the playoffs 4 years ago factors !n., yes. JJ was a 4th wheel !n PHX. He was product!ve, but d!sposable player for them... Here he's put up good numbers, but he s!mpy hasn't lead a team anywhere.

! feel you should be rewareded for accompl!sh!ng th!ngs. Scor!ng alot of po!nts on a bottom 3 team doesn't really qual!fy as a great accompl!shment !n my book.

[Plainview1981]

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so losing Amare makes a difference, but Dallas losing Nash (2 time MVP) doesn't?? Again, such a hypocrite.

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Dallas !mprovement comes from them focus!ng on the defens!ve end. Amare !s a player that can f!t !nto bas!cally any system. ! don't th!nk Nash has the ab!l!ty to play !n any system and look as good as he does now.

[AtLaS]

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When the!r pretty close to the same players those th!ngs become d!fference makers.

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Such a hypocrite. First JJ's a player who doesn't deserve to get in because he's just a player who puts up stats on a bad team, and now he's almost the same player as Vince?? So in other words, you're saying that Vince taking his team to the playoffs 4 years ago qualifies him to make the all-star game THIS YEAR, but JJ doesn't deserve a RESERVE SPOT, even AFTER KIDD IS INJURED??? Go get an argument, you're running out of sh!t to make up.

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!'m say!ng that h!m tak!ng h!s team to the playoffs 4 years ago factors !n., yes. JJ was a 4th wheel !n PHX. He was product!ve, but d!sposable player for them... Here he's put up good numbers, but he s!mpy hasn't lead a team anywhere.

! feel you should be rewareded for accompl!sh!ng th!ngs. Scor!ng alot of po!nts on a bottom 3 team doesn't really qual!fy as a great accompl!shment !n my book.

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First off, we aren't a bottom 3 team. But since it's pretty obvious you know nothing about basketball, let me break this down for you.

When you have 3 all-stars in front of you, and one of them is a PG (who is an MVP), isn't the pg going to have the ball in his hands pretty much exclusively? JJ played the role he was asked to play on that team, and still scored over 17 a game (and 5 assists) and shot like 48% from three. Why would JJ try to takeover in a system like that?? Hotlanta, you could put Ray Allen on Phx and he wouldn't average much more than 17 ppg, it just isn't needed in that situation, but obviously you don't realize that.

And please quit using those damn exclamations as I's..

[Plainview1981]

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so losing Amare makes a difference, but Dallas losing Nash (2 time MVP) doesn't?? Again, such a hypocrite.

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Dallas !mprovement comes from them focus!ng on the defens!ve end. Amare !s a player that can f!t !nto bas!cally any system. ! don't th!nk Nash has the ab!l!ty to play !n any system and look as good as he does now.

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Really, Nash's replacement... JT !s at best equal to Nash as a defens!ve player. be!ng that's the case, they d!dn't !mprove on defense because of the loss of Nash. They !mproved because Johnson put a more defens!ve m!nd !nto the team.

D!rk h!mself has become a sl!ghtly more respectable defens!ve player under Johnson.... Wh!ch !s someth!ng Nelly couldn't help D!rk ach!eve.

!t's coach!ng and not the loss of Nash that has made Dallas a better team.

[AtLaS]

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so losing Amare makes a difference, but Dallas losing Nash (2 time MVP) doesn't?? Again, such a hypocrite.

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Dallas !mprovement comes from them focus!ng on the defens!ve end. Amare !s a player that can f!t !nto bas!cally any system. ! don't th!nk Nash has the ab!l!ty to play !n any system and look as good as he does now.

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You're right, Nash wouldn't fit in near as well anywhere else. You do realize how bad Phoenix has been since Nash has been out right?? Nash is winning his 3rd MVP right now sitting on the bench.