So, my STH renewal package arrived today.

[DJ_Money]

Seems incredibly early to be doing this, but whatever. I'm a rookie STH, so maybe this is par for the course.

Initial payment is due by March 30th.

I want to renew my seats, and I probably will, but I don't like having to do it this early. Especially considering the legal issues hanging over this team. I will not keep my tickets if Belkin is given control of the team. I'm sure I'd probably never get a refund, but I wouldn't attend the games, I'd sell or give them away.

Anybody else get theirs? Feel the same way?

[Sothron]

I stopped with ST two years ago and haven't seen anything close to a reason to get them back.

[AtLaS]

Are they cheaper if you renew them this early? Can't you just re-order them during the summer or something? I know there isn't a line waiting to get Hawks season tickets.

[TexasPete]

Last year my renewal was due on May 15th. I suspect that moving it up is a help with their cash flow. I will not be renewing after being in my row for since 1985. I have seen it all over the years and my partner on the seats wants out as well. I can always scalp good seats to about 10 games and I'll save a lot of money.

I have told the owners that I will renew if Billy Knight AND Mike Woodson are fired. It's that simple. I have watched BK literally piss on this rebuilding job, always passing on the players who would help us most. Our track record in the draft under BK is just crap. Passing on the obvious picks every year and having to watch them develop into All Star quality with others teams reall hurts when your spending money on seats. The final straw is the Shelden Williams pick. The way they handled the pick, like a bunch of damn amateurs, was also a factor for me. Shelden Williams doesn't even look like an NBA player at this point, much less a lottery pick. Brandon Roy was the obvious choice, a combo guard who can play the PG spot (well) and who will be an All Star.

If these guys bring back BK and Woodson, and I expect that they will because they can't get anybody else, I will not support the franchise with hard earned money. And if they need an answer by March 30th the answer from me is HELL NO! Get some real professionals in here to run this team and its a different story.

[Johnnybravo4]

Do what I did to mine last year..turn them into paper airplanes. I am not giving one more dime to the ASG. EFF em!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Not to . . . but once again, Brandon Roy cannot play PG for extended minutes on the NBA level. If you watch Brandon play, you would know that. He gets his assists the same way Vince Carter gets his assists, by passing to wide open shooters after a team tries to double team him. Surely you wouldn't suggest that Vince play PG for the Nets, if Kidd or Williams happened to get hurt, just because Vince averages 4.5 assists/gm?

I've watched about 10 Portland games this year . . 6 with Brandon playing. Brandon has pretty good court vision and can find people in a half court set when a team tries to double team him. When he drives, he almost always shoots, but he has shown the ability to dump a pass off to a center or PF, if the defense converges on him. He's like a poor man's version of Jalen Rose right now, although Jalen had a little better court vision and could direct a team from the PG position. Offensively, he reminds me a lot of Jalen, when Jalen was starting to emerge as a good player in this league.

But a PG is supposed to control the tempo of the game and run an offense. Brandon can't do that. That's why Portland plays Jack and Sergio, and even Dickau at the point. And Brandon can't even begin to defend at the PG position. He'd have the same problem that JJ had defending PGs last season.

So if you want to cry about us passing on a player, don't cry about passing on Roy, cry about passing on Randy Foye. He's the guy that is now showing the ability that he can adjust his game to a PG mindset, while also showing the ability to guard PGs adequately. He and my boy Trenton Hassell did a pretty good job defending Gilbert Arenas Sunday night.

Foye has just about rendered Mike James obsolete in Minny . . which makes Kevin McHale the worst GM in the league. Nobody even thought about giving Mike James a significant amount of money, not even BK. But McHale pretty much gave James 25 million for the next 4 years without even blinking. At least BK can use the excuse that Speedy is hurt. James is healthy, and got his spot taken by a rookie SG. But even Foye isn't a better PG right now, than the current PGs we have on the roster. Potentially though, he could be better at that position . . in about 2 years.

LOL . . people talk about us paying out 12 million next year to 3 backup PGs. McHale will pay out almost 17.6 million to two guys who don't even see playing time ( Marko Jaric and Troy Hudson ), and to Mike James, who got benched in favor of Foye. To make it worse, Jaric, Hudson, and James are ALL under contract through 2010 ( if they aren't bought out before then ), in which the 3 could be making a combined 20 MILLION.

If KG gives up that 22 million he's due in Minny next year, takes a lot less money, and tries to go somewhere else just to win a title, that Minnesota franchise is pretty much done for the next 5 - 7 years, unless Foye turns into Dwyane Wade, and McCants turns into Ray Allen.

There are so many situations around the league that are FAR WORSE than what we have here. A lot of teams are/will be stuck in limbo. We're steadily on the way up, with an unlimited ceiling for the next 2 - 4 years.

[TexasPete]

You have no idea what your talking about...none. BTW, I would have been fine with Foye. But I have seen enough of Roy to know that the PG spot is fine with him. He looks a helluva lot better than Speedy who has scored 14 points in the last 6 games and has been held scoreless in half of them. Roy is a future ALL Star and you don't pass on guys like that to pick a D league player like EL STIFFO.

FYI...if Childress can play the PG some...Roy damn sure can.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You have no idea what your talking about...none. BTW, I would have been fine with Foye. But I have seen enough of Roy to know that the PG spot is fine with him. He looks a helluva lot better than Speedy who has scored 14 points in the last 6 games and has been held scoreless in half of them. Roy is a future ALL Star and you don't pass on guys like that to pick a D league player like EL STIFFO.

FYI...if Childress can play the PG some...Roy damn sure can.

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Texas . . to make a comment like that, means that you're the one that doesn't know what he's talking about. Putting Roy at the point, would be like us putting Chill at the point full time. Teams can get away with it in short stretches, but not throughout the game. The Hawks would be dead in the water if we made the decision to play Chill at the point for over 20 minutes a game. Chill can't guard quick PGs who penetrate. And Roy can't either.

Roy hardly ever plays the point in Portland, yet, you think he'll be "fine" if he were the starting PG here? LOL. Roy is a SG. He plays his best when he's at the SG. He played the point in Portland, whenever Juan Dixon was in the game, and none of the other PGs were playing. Now that Dixon is gone, he's almost exclusively at the 2, because Portland is making a big time effort to make him the #2 option in the offense more than ever.

Roy is a very good young player. But he's not a PG, not even close to one. What he is though, is an unselfish ballplayer that doesn't mind giving up the rock, and find the open man. That's how he gets the vast majority of his assists.

But he isn't the guy you want dribbling the ball up the court, being pressured. Not that he'll turn the ball over, but you want that guy getting the ball in scoring position, not in a giving position. Roy's offense struggles when he played the point, and so did his defense. He's a natural 2, and that's the position he should play.

You people advocating bringing in Roy, think about it the wrong way. You don't play Roy at the point, with all of these other kids. If you want Roy here, you play him at the 2, and move JJ to the 3. But when you do that, you move Marvin straight to the bench and reduce the number of minutes that Childress plays. Either way, bringing in Roy would slow the development of one or both of our lottery picks ( Marvin and Chill ).

That's why BK passed on the kid, even if he does turn out to be a big time player. BK still believes that Marvin will turn out to be just as good, if not better.

At least if you go after Foye, you could legitimately make a case about him playing the point, mainly because he can defend the position far better than Roye, and he has the body to absorb contact when he goes to the hole.

But then again, most of you guys don't believe anything, until you see some "stats". So I'll use Ex's favorite site . . 82games.com:

Foye:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06MIN4C.HTM

Roy:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR4C.HTM

But heck, I knew this ish even before looking it up . . because I WATCH THE LEAGUE, not just stats or box scores . . or highlight clips of a player on SportsCenter. I'm not just a die hard Hawks fan, I'm a die hard NBA fan. I watch everybody any chance I get, because I love NBA basketball.

Brandon Roy may become an all-star . . but he'd never reach his potential playing the point. And frankly, Minnesota is probably slowing Foye's potential as a great player, by playing him at the point. But right now, Foye at the point for Minny, is what is best for the team.

So if you wanted a PG, Foye is the choice, and the most likely to gain a starting spot for the Hawks. On the other hand, I could easily see Roy coming off the bench here, because we couldn't bench Marvin in favor of playing Roy at the 2. Roy would get time, but he wouldn't play 35 minutes a game here, like he is in Portland. He might see 20 - 25 minutes a game. And if that happened, he wouldn't be the Rookie of the Year here.

You guys need to start thinking about things at all angles, and not just assume that a player playing great somewhere else, could play just as good here. If the situation here isn't similar to where he came from, the results wouldn't be the same.

As far as Shelden goes, he's the perfect example of what could happen to Roy here. His talents could be suppressed simply because he has a better player in front of him taking minutes away from him ( which would be JJ ).

Put Shelden in a situation in which he could instantly be a starter, and his numbers and level of play would greatly improve. I mean, even when he was the starter back in November, he played pretty good basketball, and got recognized for it as a top 5 rookie. Shelden just needs to work harder in the offseason, to get back into the rotation. Right now, he seems destined to be a decent backup PF to bring off the bench for us, if Smoove keeps playing at a high level at PF.

[exodus]

You may want to check your links a little more closely before you post them.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR4C.HTM

This link shows Roy has a PER 3.9 higher than his opponents when playing the point, 3.3 lower than his opponents when playing the 2.

It also shows Roy has an assist/turnover ratio of 2.9 when playing the point.

[TexasPete]

LOL at the Hawks suppressing Shelden's "talents"...that is funny. BTW, I stated many times if Roy was not the choice I was fine with Foye. I loved Foye.

But the point is that Billy Knight is a jackass with fans, has a lousy record with the Hawks, and never did a damn thing in Memphis. Billy is still searching for his first 30 win season in his "career" as a GM. Further, his signing of a career back up with injury problems, and Lo Wright, indicate he doesn't do all that well in that part of the job either.

I don't care if you write another War and Peace post, Billy still sucks...and so does the 5th pick in last years draft. Marvin Williams is Michael Jordan next to Shelden Williams.

[DJ_Money]

Should have figured this post would go in this direction...

[gsuteke]

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Should have figured this post would go in this direction...

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You've been post-jacked!

[Popeye]

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Should have figured this post would go in this direction...

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Yep, unfortunately the title of this thread is Season ticket renewal package. In every thread there is a Shelden over Roy argument. It used to be Marvin over Paul, but it got quiet a little bit.

[AtLaS]

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You may want to check your links a little more closely before you post them.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR4C.HTM

This link shows Roy has a PER 3.9 higher than his opponents when playing the point, 3.3 lower than his opponents when playing the 2.

It also shows Roy has an assist/turnover ratio of 2.9 when playing the point.

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And how many minutes a game is Roy playing at PG?? Jack plays like 30+, Sergio plays too, Roy isn't getting enough time at PG to compare the two. He's on a losing team, and he plays 2 most of the time, so his overall PER for the most of his minutes will be negative.

I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have Roy, just saying that the stat is skewed.

[exodus]

If someone provides a link trying to say that Roy plays better at the 2 than the 1, and the link says just the opposit, it just seems a little strange.

Plus from talking to Blazer fans some of them seem to think Jack is the 3rd best pg on the roster.

One thing is for sure and that is we could have sure used Roys scoring. It wouldn't have been hard to find minutes for him considering all the injuries we have had.

I would certainly rather have him than Shelden. If Shelden wasn't here most likely Solomon would be playing behind Smith and i would be fine with that.

[AtLaS]

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If someone provides a link trying to say that Roy plays better at the 2 than the 1, and the link says just the opposit, it just seems a little strange.

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That's hilarious.

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I would certainly rather have him than Shelden. If Shelden wasn't here most likely Solomon would be playing behind Smith and i would be fine with that.

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I actually don't think Shelden is as bad as everyone makes him out to be, he just has no place on this team right now. I'd like to see Solomon play more anyway, our team always comes alive when he gets in the game, he just fouls too damn much.

[exodus]

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I actually don't think Shelden is as bad as everyone makes him out to be, he just has no place on this team right now.

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Agreed on both counts.