With the Indy pick now gone, how do we improve....

[Popeye]

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Yea Ahf and most people don't realize that Marvin is defending the other teams best offensive players like last few games for example: Igoudala and Pierce. And he also defends pg's extremly well for his size. Josh Smith is never put in that situation to defend a good offensive player 1 on 1 for the whole game.

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Wow, you reached deep for that BS. If I recall, Smoove guarded both KG and Dirk when we played their teams. Tonight vs. Indy, who do you think will be guarding JO??

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Why wasn't he guarding Al than?? Zaza, Lo and Shelden were on him for almost the whole game. Woody doesn't want JS to get exposed on D, because he would pick up 5 fouls in about 5 minutes just like Zaza did or Shelden.

[AHF]

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And pointing øut this obvious hyperbole is...comforting how?

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I should think the point is obvious.

We can't go back in time and draft Paul/Deron. Get over it and don't take shots at our own players out of bitterness over a sunk cost. Calling Marvin a NBDL player when he is averaging 13 & 5 his second year in the NBA at age 20 is ridiculous.

Hold it against BK that he didn't draft Paul/Deron. Look at Marvin for what he is and root for his progress and success in the future.

[DJlaysitup]

Do you really think MW will ever be a nba "game changer" AHF? I doubt it.

[Guest Walter]

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And pointing øut this obvious hyperbole is...comforting how?

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I should think the point is obvious.

We can't go back in time and draft Paul/Deron. Get over it and don't take shots at our own players out of bitterness over a sunk cost. Calling Marvin a NBDL player when he is averaging 13 & 5 his second year in the NBA at age 20 is ridiculous.

Hold it against BK that he didn't draft Paul/Deron. Look at Marvin for what he is and root for his progress and success in the future.

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That should be the same time everyone else gets over it. The issue isn't about MW, Deron, Roy, SW, Paul, Iggy, Deng, Childress or any of them. It's about BK and how a GM can so consistently get it so wrong and still be in a position to continue to get it wo wrong. The problem still works for the Hawks. Letting it go only keeps him there longer.

...I don't think it's wrong to say that MW's worth to us is closer to that of an NBDL player than Paul or Deron or another franchise Pg would be for us, given we already had JC and JS at forward and MW isn't better. MW wasn't better than they were, isn't better than they are, isn't likely going to be better than they are, and he d@mn sure doesn't fill a need. Some of that does reflect on MW negatively. Look, he came to tryouts out of shape, doesn't enjoy watching the sport, had a losing HS team, and an individual lackluster freshman year at UNC if you paid attention. He's certainly lacking something necessary to be a superstar. That seems obvious and is not some knock on him but apparent. Regardless, the majority of the MW's situation REFLECTS NEGATIVELY ON BK! Had we learned our lesson about BK sooner (rather than "getting over it") we would have Roy or Foye rather than SW...certainly no promise to SW.

Simply put, where "getting over it" means forgetting or not learning the lessons of "it", I think we all can agree we shouldn't.

W

[thescout5]

If you have read my other posts I am 100% for firing BK and Woody. These 2 guys remind me of the Atlanta Falcon's since when the Falcon's coaches get fired no one wants these guys as head coaching material or GMs. I bet Atlanta is the only place BK and Woody could get great jobs. These 2 guys have failed the Hawks and there fans. I am tired of BK going to the lottery always bringing us bad luck. Send Dominque or someone that can get us luck.

You can't take back the past but you can make the necessary moves in the future to give your team the best advantage. Based on what we have seen of BK and Woody they need there pink slips after the last game.Neither of them know what to do in evaluating talent or coaching it.

[AHF]

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I don't think it's wrong to say that MW's

worth to us

is closer to that of an NBDL player than Paul or Deron or another franchise Pg would be for us, given we already had JC and JS at forward and MW isn't better.

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This calls for the Captain Obvious image. Still doesn't justify bashing MW, IMO.

[AHF]

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Do you really think MW will ever be a nba "game changer" AHF? I doubt it.

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Not unless he gets a lot more aggressive. He doesn't do enough of the ball to impact the game to be a game changer unless he picks up his aggressiveness. That said, he still has time.

[TexasPete]

It's funny how Josh Childress gets a free pass when he is just as big a "bust" as Marvin. When you consider who the obvious pick was that year (Deng) and you look at how Deng has progressed in relation to Chill...Chill is just as big a bust as Marvin. BK took a guy who any idiot could see couldn't even create his own shot which is the kiss of death in the NBA because it relegates you to role player status. Deng is also 2 years younger than Chill. Deng is a better defender, scorer, and rebounder. Deng is headed to the All Star game at 22 next year. Chill will still be coming off a bad teams bench.

You want a bust? Chill is a bust in relation to the guys he was taken over just like Marvin. But you hardly hear a peep about Childress on this board. Oh, I forgot Childress is a glue guy. Except when he doesn't break a sweat like against Indy the other night. BK deserves to be fired for total ineptitude. For every good move he has made, he makes 3 hideous moves...and Childress was a hideous move when you take into account who our genius drafted him over.

Was Marvin a mistake in relation to who he was drafted over? Yes. But Childress fits the same description and frankly has shown less improvement than Marvin. Childress is who he is...a role player off the bench for a bad team while his counterpart is already an up and coming star.

[Guest Walter]

I was mad as hell about it for a whole year. Then MW came along and I was mad as hell about that. then SW...The only common denominator was BK.

I think the only differences for me between MW and JC is that with MW we passed on a greater needed and harder to fill position, it was a higher pick, and it was the 2nd error BK made (which highlighted his inability to assess talent/build a team). JC was also the same year we got JS which allows many to overlook the error.

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Childress is who he is...a role player off the bench for a bad team while his counterpart is already an up and coming star.

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Yep. At least he can play 2 positions. SW is just a Pf role player and a much worse one at that.

W

[AtLaS]

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It's funny how Josh Childress gets a free pass when he is just as big a "bust" as Marvin.

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Childress was #6, Marvin was #2 (highest pick in franchise history).

Marvin came to the Hawks workout out of shape, his HS team had a losing record, he only scored 10 ppg, he choked in big games, he was the 6-7th best HS player the year before, and he doesn't like to watch basketball, nor does he seem to have the heart/fortitude to be a dominant player. All of these things COMBINED with the fact that we already had THREE 1st round picks at SF AND Al Harrington, and a high 2nd rounder in Donta.

So yeah, the Marvin pick is on another level of bad. I mean, how can you expect a player with that resume to become a franchise SAVIOR?!? That's like the 10th wonder of the world.

[TexasPete]

Childress is 3 years older than Marvin and his numbers are comparable. In fact, in 3 years Marvin will be well past where Childress is now. The fact that Marvin was #2 and Chill #6 is TOTALLY a moot argument. The fact is that when you pick that high you are going to have GREAT options. We had GREAT options when we picked Childress and we let the best option go to Chicago. We had GREAT options when we drafted MW and we let the better options to to NO and Utah.

In both cases the miss was egregious. Marvin at least has some game. Chill'd funky shot limits his upside and most GM's know things like that because they heads aren't up their backsides.

Childress is a MAJOR BUST when you factor in who was sitting right there for us to take. And the simple fact is that Childress looks like the exact same player this year as he was last year. NO GROWTH.

And then there is Shelden Williams, a whole new level of BUST.

[Guest Walter]

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I don't think it's wrong to say that MW's

worth to us

is closer to that of an NBDL player than Paul or Deron or another franchise Pg would be for us, given we already had JC and JS at forward and MW isn't better.

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This calls for the Captain Obvious image. Still doesn't justify bashing MW, IMO.

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MW's impact for us is closer to that of an NBDL player than what Paul or Deron's impact for us would be. That's not obvious. It's obvious that a Pg would be much more valuable to us, but the extent I am assigning it is significant. If the extent I was assigning it was obvious, why couldn't more people have seen this?

W

[AHF]

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I don't think it's wrong to say that MW's

worth to us

is closer to that of an NBDL player than Paul or Deron or another franchise Pg would be for us, given we already had JC and JS at forward and MW isn't better.

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This calls for the Captain Obvious image. Still doesn't justify bashing MW, IMO.

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MW's impact for us is closer to that of an NBDL player than what Paul or Deron's impact for us would be. That's not obvious. It's obvious that a Pg would be much more valuable to us, but the extent I am assigning it is significant. If the extent I was assigning it was obvious, why couldn't more people have seen this?

W

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Two things are obvious:

(1) Paul and Deron are better players to date than Marvin.

(2) We have more need of a point guard than a small forward.

Your measure of how close a player's impact is on this team to an NBDL player is basically just asking which player has a better impact for this team (barring some kind of miracle contribution like Ben Wallace from the NBDL). It is obvious that Paul and Deron's impact on this team would be farther from that of an NBDL player than Marvin's has been for the above reasons and more.

Why is this any kind of insight?

Are we going to offer insight next over the fact that Marvin's impact on this team is closer to an NBDL player than Dikembe's was on the Hawks? (BTW - If it isn't clear, Dikembe was a better player and played at a position of greater need for this team. Therefore, Deke's impact was farther from that of an NBDL player than that of Marvin.)

This is really, really obvious, IMO.

Am I missing something here?

Let's move on and address Marvin for who he is rather than who he isn't.

[AHF]

Sorry if that comes off too harsh. I am a little tired today.