Hawks versus Trail Blazers

[Diesel]

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BK seems love "big" point guards.

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I don't think BK likes Point Gaurds at all. I think BK feels that a player ought to be able to do more than one thing. That's what makes him a bad GM... For example: He traded away Dickau for nothing. Passed on Deron and Paul. Passed on others.. and the PGs he drafted were guys who used to be a SGs but became a PGs because they were too short to play SG.

[AtLaS]

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The biggest difference is that Roy has had an opportunity to play and Shelden hasn't.

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Don't you think if Shelden was good enough that he would play?

Woodson, although he isn't a good coach, doesn't sit players that deserve a lot of minutes.

[Diesel]

Not really.

I think this coach has a doghouse and history supports that belief...

Remember Smoove's second year.

Talk to Salim, Este, Solomon, that guy from the Lakers, Lang, and even your presidential candidate John Edwards. All of them could never get out of Woody's doghouse. Even Josh Smith had to deal with the doghouse.

Because of this propensity to bench young players, how do you fault the players? I mean, Woody's justification is that Shelden doesn't do the dirty work?? What the hell does that mean?

[AtLaS]

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Not really.

I think this coach has a doghouse and history supports that belief...

Remember Smoove's second year.

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Josh Smith still averaged 32 mpg that season. Although he was in the doghouse for a short while, it wasn't the ENTIRE season as with Shelden, especially since he's 23 and was the draft's most ready player.

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Talk to Salim, Este, Solomon, that guy from the Lakers, Lang, and even your presidential candidate John Edwards. All of them could never get out of Woody's doghouse.

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Those players weren't #5's. They were cheap signing's and/or 2nd rounders that weren't expected to make a big impact.

And Solomon is now playing more than Shelden! A 2nd rounder? Did Solomon just EMERGE from the doghouse over Shelden?

[Diesel]

At the beginning of the season, I wasn't too disappointed with Shelden, he provided rebounds and he was learning defensive positioning.

Nobody really knows what Shelden did to get thrown in the doghouse, but I feel that it has a lot to do with Marvin. On our bench, we have a lot of good skillsets. Este = Goon. Solomon = Shot blocking C/PF. Shelden = Big body like Boozer... The problem is that Marvin gets 33 mpg and he has all the time in the world to ===== up. When these other guys make one mistake, they're benched for the rest of the week? Last night, Solomon should have played until he got his 6th foul.... We have no consistent playing time with our players not named, Smoove, Chillz, and Marvin and that effects confidence. Salim scored 37, against Dallas, let's see how many minutes Salim gets?

[exodus]

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Nobody really knows what Shelden did to get thrown in the doghouse, but I feel that it has a lot to do with Marvin.

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Now there's a shocker lol.

Last night Marvin played 18 minutes, Lo didn't play, our bigs were in foul trouble, but Shelden still only got 6 minutes.

Next thing you'll be blaming Marvin for global warming.

[Packfill]

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I don't care how Roy wouldn't have 'fit' on our team, he holds far more value in a trade than SW ever would.

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This is probably the most ignorant thing you have uttered on this board. If you think Roy would have trade value sitting on the bench not playing, then you must be crazy. Remember, both Roy and Shelden were considered the most NBA ready players out of this past bench. The biggest difference is that Roy has had an opportunity to play and Shelden hasn't. Roy's value = High, Shelden's does not. If you change the roles around and Roy is on the bench... Roy's value would not be high. Like somebody said earlier, you can't be expected to make an impact on the game if you're only playing 5 mpg.

I believe once we change coaches and stop trying to make everybody so versatile that we forget about skillsets, there are going to be a lot of players that we see that we have who are pretty doggone good. Either that or we will trade these players away and watch them prosper elsewhere.

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What are you talking about? Roy would be the starting point guard on the Hawks and would be getting 35+ minutes a night. He is not a true point guard but has more point guard skills then anyone on the Hawks since Mookie Blaylock. Look at the disgraces the Hawks are marching out at "point guard." All are at best journey men, most with no point guard skills whatsoever.

If Roy was not going to be a fit long term at point you trade him - he has incredible value right now. I would trade anyone on the Hawks not named Joe Johnson or Josh Smith for Roy.

[AtLaS]

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The problem is that Marvin gets 33 mpg and he has all the time in the world to ===== up.

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Trust me I completely agree about Marvin, but it doesn't mean that Shelden wasn't a bad pick.

Marvin went #2 overall just LAST year, it was obvious that he was going to get "all the time in the world to ==== up." He will be given every opportunity in the world to justify his draft position, whether he performs well or not. This is what made Shelden a bad pick. So was Shelden drafted to bench Smith? Either that, or Shelden was drafted to be a bench player himself.

[Diesel]

No,

I'm blaming Woody for not playing his players.

When Dickau has a one may layup drill going on, we need either Solomon or Shelden on the court... Who's out there? Lue, SMoove, Aj, Salim, and Chillz.

We lost last night, because PTL went to their big lineup and Aldridge and Magloire snatched all the rebounds over 5 fouls of Smoove and Chillz. On a couple of occassions they actually threw Smoove to the ground like a rag doll... Same for Chillz and some of you insist that Smoove is a 4. Last night should have been an eye opener. When 28% 3 pt shooting Smoove kept hoisting them up from downtown... I said Where is our PF. Oh, they are on the bench keeping Woody company.

Against Dallas, I expect Smoove to look good because Dirk doesn't play in the low post anyway and he has a very slow release. However, in this game, you match big body with big body. I'm just glad that Zebo wasn't there to get his 32 and 12.

[DJlaysitup]

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...What are you talking about? Roy would be the starting point guard on the Hawks and would be getting 35+ minutes a night...

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With our current injury situation, that is probably correct (maybe 28-30).

I would love to see a Roy/Salim starting back court for the rest of this season. That would be fun to watch...Fire and Ice.

[Diesel]

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Roy would be the starting point guard on the Hawks and would be getting 35+ minutes a night.

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Why not support playing JJ at PG and moving JChillz to the SG?

Doesn't that work in your world of skillsetlessness?

This is not XBox. It doesn't work that way.

You shouldn't draft players knowing that you plan to play them out of position... because they are duplicates... Especially when you have gapping holes elsewhere.

[exodus]

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We lost last night, because PTL went to their big lineup and Aldridge and Magloire snatched all the rebounds over 5 fouls of Smoove and Chillz. On a couple of occassions they actually threw Smoove to the ground like a rag doll... Same for Chillz and some of you insist that Smoove is a 4. Last night should have been an eye opener. When 28% 3 pt shooting Smoove kept hoisting them up from downtown... I said Where is our PF. Oh, they are on the bench keeping Woody company.

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Your bias here is so obvious it is a joke.

Smith had 11 defensive rebounds in the game, second only to Magloires 12. Zaza had only 3 defensive rebounds yet somehow you don't mention Zaza's pathetic rebounding.

I don't think Smith's 3-5 from 3 hurt us either.

[Diesel]

Did you watch the game?

I think what's obvious is that you didn't watch the game that we controlled in the first half and lost in the second because we couldn't get a defensive rebound! Zaza was bad, but in the second half, he wasn't on the floor the whole time. Plus, there was some miscommunication as to which Big Zaza would pick up.. ON a couple of occassions, AJ had to go down to box out Magloire because Zaza was trying to keep Aldrich off the boards.

Watch a game, not a statsheet next time!

[exodus]

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lost in the second because we couldn't get a defensive rebound! Zaza was bad, but in the second half, he wasn't on the floor the whole time.

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Actually he was on the floor the majority of the time.

Zaza played 21 minutes in the second half and ot. He was the major reason the Hawks struggled on the defensive boards yet you single out Smoove, who had 11 defensive rebounds, and don't mention Zaza who had only 3.

[Popeye]

The reason that Blazers were getting off reb is because the Hawks were switching on their guards. For example Aldridge goes to set a pick, AJ stays on Aldridge and Smoove goes to guard Jack. So if Jack misses the jumper or a layup they still have Magloire and Aldridge going for rebound against Zaza because Smoove is forced to guard their PG. Nate MAcmilan simply outcoached Woody.

Woody played our guys too much down the strech. Solomon and Shelden should play more. Smoove was in foul trouble and he didn't want to pick up his 6th fouls so he only played about 50% on defense. Woody should of put Shelden or Solo or tell SMoove to play 100% even if he fouls out. Aldridge is a good player and he got a lot of rebounds over Smoove.

ROY IS NOT A PG, he never dribbled the ball down the court. He was coming off screens and shooting jumpers. Joe Johnson is more of a pg than Roy is. If we drafted Roy over Shelden it would be only because of his trade value because he is a similar player to JJ. Roy wouldn't have a future in Atl except if we traded away Chill or Joe.

Salim was awesome last night and only player on our team that wanted to win.

[Diesel]

When I watched the game, I saw NOBODY boxing out... SMOOVE INCLUDED... In fact, like I said, Smoove was being tossed about like a rag doll by Magloire. And as I said also, as I watched the game, it seemed as though AJ took on the responsibility of trying to box out Magloire because Zaza was trying to put a body on Aldridge.

Now, Ex, as always you talk stat talk, but it's evident that you don't watch the game. That's the problem.... I watch the game. You don't. You can tell me how many minutes a player played and what they did, I can tell you how much impact that player really had on the floor. For instance, the stats may say something about Josh Smith's scoring... But for anybody who watched the game... In the fourth quarter with the game on the line, we all grew sick of Smoove jacking up the three shot instead of driving the lane. He drives, success, he jacks up the three.. PTL is beating us down the court to either score or get fouled...

Again, that is how we lost. You can make all the statistically arguments you want. You didn't see the game and your stats are meaningless. Josh Smith could have had 34 defensive rebounds... if Magloire and Aldridge gets 73 rebounds... Does it matter? Those Two guys got 31 rebounds or something like that... What Smoove did was nice... but when the game counted, he didn't produce enough. I would have rather seen him keeping Aldridge and Magloire off the boards by boxing out and let some other Hawk get a rebound than to see him trying to block their shots on their offensive rebound put backs!! (Foul)...

[AtLaS]

Smith hit a go ahead 3 in the 4th with about 30 seconds remaining.

[exodus]

As usual, you got it wrong. We controlled the game in the first half when Zaza was on the bench. Solomon and Smoove didn't allow any uncontested shots in the lane, we got stops and ran.

In the second half and ot when Zaza was in the game it was a different story. They got a lot of offensive rebounds and easy points. It isn't that complicated.

You continue to rail against Smith shooting 3s even though he cut down on his 3 point shot attempts a long time ago. And the fact is that his 3 pointers were big last night and he has been shooting them well this month (10-24).

You will twist any game to try to back up your claim that Smith.

[Diesel]

How many offensive rebounds did Aldridge get in the last 2 minutes to keep the game alive for PTL??

How many clanks did Smoove commit in OT.

If it weren't for Salim, we would not be in the game and somehow we didn't go to Salim at the end? Great coaching there?

[Diesel]

My claim is not against Smith alone. My claim is against the whole Hawks frontcourt.

You want to exempt Smoove, but he's not exemptable. He was allowing Aldridge and Magloire run the paint inthe 2nd half... Zaza or NOT... Moreover, the short moments that Solomon were in in the second, he couldn't body either guy out of the post and let Dickau get some running layins.

Woody... missed an opportunity to change what he normally does and try a winning plan... Instead, he did the same old predictable substitutions and those bigs ate us whole!

Now, you can go on and on trying to find one small irrelevant point, but what I said still rings true... We lost because in the 4th, we could not keep their bigs off the offensive glass. In the 4th, it got so bad that AJ was trying to box out Magloire while Zaza was trying to box out Aldridge. In the fourth, Woody went to that same old s--- of Lue/Salim/Chillz at the 1,2, and 3 and we got out muscled, out worked and out rebounded. Smoove got his 4th and 5th fouls and played very tentatively thereafter. Our other bigs like Shelden and Solomon remained on the bench because Woody would rather keep an ineffective lineup out there because "it's their time to play" instead of making a move that makes sense.